The decline continues...

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yellow rose said:
Right, bridge laws or length laws. The funny thing was California didn’t start enforcing that law until right before the Winter nationals. And screwed the racers. Right there they should have packed up and left.


But there is the myth that since California is the “birthplace” of hot rod ding it’s sacred. It’s not. They should have left long ago, moved the museum with them and dumped the Winter nationals and the World Finals somewhere else.
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As long as they learned their lesson from the way their officials ran California into the ground.
 
doogievlg said:
It was a lady in her mid 30s. She could literally not care less about it. I figured if they thought it was boring enough they would just stop reading halfway through and I could get a better grade.
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Most weman are that way when it comes to racing
 
aaronk785 said:
I couldn’t live there for 10 minutes.
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It’s a love hate for many..... and I definitely see the appeal. I’m 2hrs from Vegas, but make the 5hr pull to Famoso more than anything. It’s by far my favorite track.
 
aaronk785 said:
The 60s and 70s had to be good there. Can you imagine racing at pamona in the late 60s. Had to be awsome.
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when I moved to western AZ 23 years ago I worked with a guy the grew up in Corona. He and his dad would race Thursday - Sunday at a different track every night. I can’t even imagine.....
 
yellow rose said:
Yeah, that’s just one way NHRA can control a track.

As an FYI, in 1994 I tried to get an IHRA sanction for my local track to compete against the nonsense that was going on there. I had IHRA signed on to do it IF I could get the track dates (that should have been easy IF the city of Portland followed its own laws), IF I could get an insurance binder and IF a I could supply my own timing equipment.

I had the money lined up to cover the insurance and the timing equipment, plus some operating capital. The big deal was getting the dates, and the city of Portland broke it’s own laws. It violated several of its own rules that were laid out so that the park could be used for what it was built to be used for.

It was appalling how it all went down. People way higher up the food chain from different venues (and from other tracks) came together and put the squeeze on me to stop what I was doing. They got to my money guys. They went to my friends and threatened to do certain things to certain series to affect whole groups of people.

I lost several friends over the deal. Not that I care, because that’s on them. But the end result was a nice object lesson on what actual power NHRA has and how they use it. Even on little old me.

It was also a great lesson in that telling a lie for years can become a truth. That’s real and it happens. The promoter said he was “grandfathered” in and only he had the right to promote drag racing at the park. The fact was (and still is) he was lying. So did the guy who was before him. Both liars..and the idiots believed him. When in fact, the city of Portland has clear, definitive rules about the use of ANY city park. And yet, to this day they break those rules and laws.

What a shame.
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For what it's worth, the more of your posts I read, the more I like the way you think. :thumbsup:
 
yellow rose said:
Yeah, I know that history. The fact is NHRA is a for profit entity and should be run as such. Wally Parks was an organizer much more than a racer.

Look at what happens to innovation at NHRA. It is stifled. NHRA makes rules based on who is paying. I can give two easy examples, but there are many more.

I forget the year, but it wasn’t long after Pro Stock was allowed 5 forward gears, and all the sniveling snivelers were crying their eyes out that Pro Stock engines RPM so fast no human could pull a damn lever. There was going to be more aborted runs, more broken engines because they were being shifted too late (forgetting they all run Rev limiters) and the class would suffer a loss of drivers. This BTW was AFTER the vast majority of PS teams, drivers and fans all said 5 gears wouldn’t be any quicker that 4). Yeah, they were wrong. So NHRA, instead of telling the class to ball up and drive or head to the golf course capitulated and allowed “button” shifters. A little button on top of the shift handle and pushing it shifted the gear box.

What a joke. Anyone with the IQ above a grape could see cheating was going to be the norm. I mean, how hard would it be to rig the system to shift off the data logger? Not hard. And guess what?? In Seattle, a very well funded PS car (who BTW this car and team and owner spends HUGE money advertising at NHRA events, sponsors race series and a host of other money making deals for NHRA to gain a profit) was caught, on video not shifting his car. ESPN or whoever was doing the production (could have been NHRA...I can’t remember how the deal worked back then) had a camera positioned at the end of the track, shooting back towards the starting line.

It was clear as the noon day sun that the car got loose, the driver had BOTH HANDS on the wheel and you could hear the car shift. And guess what??? Because he and his family had an advertising war chest that kept NHRA execs with full pockets he was spanked on his bottom with a feather duster and told not to be a bad boy again.

And BTW, this was AFTER he got popped for cheating with fuel. And after Darrell Alderman got popped for cocaine and was suspended. What DA did was at best a minimal thing. Hell, most people I know could have been convicted of what he was, because the way the laws are written you only have to THINK to do something and you are guilty. An off track violation and he was banned for at least a year, maybe two. I forget. And in the above example, we have a two time on track offender and rule breaker walking off Scott free.

And what about EFI in Pro Stock??? What a JOKE that was and still is. Just like the RPM rule, which Nick Ferri and I (Nick is a sharp dude, but he could never make a Chrysler PS engine competitive) argued about for days on the interweb. And just as I said, adding the RPM rule was another nail in the coffin of the Dodge PS program and it didn’t save a damn thin dime. Not one. Even Chris McGhaha said it was 24 races a year that was killing the teams, not valve springs. He laid out the math. But yet and still, even in the light of reason and math, NHRA implemented the rule. And Dodge left.

Ok, back to EFI, which also BTW was a giant nail in the coffin of the Dodge PS effort. You see, NHRA didn’t go to EFI any sooner because once again, a worthless corporation with a huge wallet to shower NHRA execs with cash (and who knows what else...I could mention the Even Knoll fiasco, but several people got their weenies cut off for that deal and STILL are not racing NHRA....things that make you go Hmmmmmm) was allowed to “develop” EFI and then was given the “contract” to supply all the teams with EFI! Isn’t that nice? Not really.

For years and years people tried to get NHRA to loosen the PS rules to allow other than Holley manufactured carbs to be used in PS. As long as Holley was writing beaucoup checks to NHRA, no one could get anywhere in Glendora.

That was until Barry Grant came along. I’m not even close to a Barry Grant fan, but they guy has balls. He went after Holley. He forced the thing to court where Holley lost. That allowed carb tuners and builders the ability to make their own carb parts that were (and still are) far superior to what Holley does today. And the results were quicker ET’s and higher MPH because there was competition. Carbs today, like the BLP BX4, the stuff Dominic at Thumpr Carbs or the carbs Mark Whitener (Lightning Carbs) produce make carb tuning easy and simple, and that’s just Naomi good three builders. There are many more out there.

NHRA fought that tooth and nail just to protect a sponsor. Competition, both on and off the track didn’t matter. NHRA had to protect that income stream. But how does this fit with EFI?? Because history repeats.

When Holley finally had a system ready, the rule came down from the ivory tower in California that EFI was mandatory. Sound familiar? NHRA was protecting a sponsor to the detriment of the sport. The NFL would never do that. But NHRA does.

So rather that let any EFI manufacturer play, NHRA mandated the Holley system and nothing else. I’m no EFI expert, but I do know the MegaSquirt stuff was (and probably still is) light years ahead of the Holley EFI. I’m guessing there are several other systems out there that can do better than the Holley stuff, but they are shut out too. In fact, Holley couldn’t provide decent support to the PS teams about their EFI, so the better funded teams brought in outside consultants to unscrew the Holley system. Those with limited funding got to pick **** with the chickens. Again. And yet NHRA was still claiming to effort to reduce the cost of PS, when the reality is they are slowly choking it to death. They learned from the Pro Stock Truck debacle that killing a class and causing the loss of millions of dollars to racers and their investments was not only bad policy, it was grounds for lawsuits. So they just slowly squeeze the life out of the class so when it does die off NHRA won’t be in court.

So what about the EFI change was so horrible other than the preferential treatment of a sponsor (lets not forget the “energy drink” fiasco...but that’s another story in the dark history of NHRA isn’t it???) over open competition? It was all the other rules that went with it, such as losing the hood scoop. You see, that was a monumental blow to the Dodge PS program, and by Dodge I mean the Johnson family, who BTW a was crapped on by Ma MoPar more than once.

Because the PS “hemi” engine has a relatively short intake port in the head compared to the DRCE III stuff, the only way to get the runner length correct was with the intake manifold. The shorter the port length from the valve to the carb or throttle body, the higher the RPM the intake tract will be tuned to. Oh wait...there is an RPM limit. Hmmmmm. So between the RPM limit and the loss of the tunnel ram manifold, the Dodge PS engine program was not only neutered, it was made obsolete.

One would have to be as dumb as a box of hair to think NHRA didn’t know and understand this. So their answer was NASCAResque. They now say run any body you want, just drop a GM platform engine in there. The PS fan is so retarded they won’t know. Or care. But I know. I care. And by the looks of it, so do hundreds of thousands of fans.

So why not allow competition? Why not let the best system win out? Isn’t that what Pro Stock was (and should be) about??? PS is the engine and chassis builders showcase for NA engines and state of the art chassis development so why not let EFI compete against carbs on the track, where it counts?

Because NHRA just doesn’t care about anything but money. It’s a for profit-non profit, so it can do bullshit like that and stuff survive.

Why not say carbs and hood scoops are fine? And EFI and hood scoops are fine? Or EFI and no hood scoop? Or carbs and no scoop? And let other manufacturers of EFI compete in PS? And let the best system rule the day?

Because it wasn’t profitable for NHRA. And that’s the bottom line. What a shame and a sham.

Again, this isn’t news or even new to anyone who has followed NHRA for very long. We could discuss pilfering sponsors from the teams, but would it matter? We could discuss “no compete” clauses in advertising contracts, but would it matter?

When NHRA lost tobacco money even Ray Charles could see the breach in the wall. Then the beer money dried up and that was a gut punch. It’s apparent that NHRA has no forward look.

Let’s not forget that when Coca Cola didn’t renew its NHRA sponsorship (Mellow Yellow was the brand) NHRA had to scramble to put together the weak assed package they now have with Camping World. How much lower down the advertising food chain can NHRA go before they capsize?

The TV package is absolutely horrible. Way too much bullshit for the number of passes we see. Why not skip all that talking and show some of the lower classes??? It would allow those guys to get more sponsorship dollars because of the added exposure. Yeah, that ain’t happening.

This is only the tip of the ice berg. The best hope is NHRA just goes away so something can fill the void. It’s near impossible now because NHRA has a strangle hold through various mechanisms. And they work.

That’s what’s wrong with NHRA in a nutshell, and I’m not the only one who sees it, or says anything about it.
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*Thanks "Yellow",
Though depressing that was a well articulated and great read from somebody whose obviously extremely knowledgeable on the subject.
 
This year, Spokane County Raceway has closed, Atlanta is sold for land, California Dragway in Fontana is closed for 2021 or longer. This happened in the 80's as well, land is worth far more than in it's life as a Dragstrip. NHRA moving more of their staff to Indianapolis Raceway Park, INDY where every other motorsports sanctioning body resides, lots of room and an enlightened local pro-business government. During COVID lockdowns, NHRA laid off a lot of staff and if they sell the Glendora building are offing to lease back half of it... you didn't expect the massive and well paid NHRA board of directors to move from SoCal to Indy, did you?

 
I was at a test and tune last Friday night . There were alot of "street" class cars running, the fast guys were there for an event Saturday, but still alot of street guys there(and gals) I got in three passes, but I was off work that day and got there early. It got crowded after a while, with cars racing. I waited about 40 minutes between runs. I guess my point is, drag racing still popular in my area, and there is alot of fast street muscle out there.
 
doogievlg said:
Before Covid hit I would argue that drag racing was close to the peak of its popularity. Not like it was in the 60s and 70s. But thanks to the tv shows it was getting popular fast. The NHRA seems to be doing ok but there are places they could improve.
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Do something about the Chevy Camaro Pro Stock class
 
scooter318 said:
Do something about the Chevy Camaro Pro Stock class
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Prostock isn’t going to improve things. The NHRA needs to focus on what’s hot right now and that’s factory body cars pushing the limits. People would rather watch a small tire car with no bars run a 7 then a prostock car.
 
doogievlg said:
Prostock isn’t going to improve things. The NHRA needs to focus on what’s hot right now and that’s factory body cars pushing the limits. People would rather watch a small tire car with no bars run a 7 then a prostock car.
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That’s not an N/A class. Pro Stock isn’t hot because NHRA bitched it up. They ruled and regulated the class to death. Wouldn’t you want to see a carb’d car go up against an EFI junker in a heads up N/A race and let the best combo win? I know that’s what I wanted. I know I didn’t want the RPM rule, and not just because it was going to kill the Chryslers. NHRA has been factoring and indexing the MoPar stuff into the dirt since before I was born (well...maybe not that long but close).

Pro Stock was established to let the best N/A engine builders showcase their talent and abilities in front of the drag racing world. Like everything else, NHRA couldn’t get out of its own way.

You should know that Pro Stock Truck was brought in to do the same for small block engine builders and because trucks were outselling all that other junk 3-4:1 (expect for minivans, and if NHRA started a minivan class with V6 or junk **** 4 bangers I’d never watch any drag racing again and somehow I’d procure enough pain dope that I could go back to riding dirt bikes) and they needed a place for the trucks to do it.

And then, even as Methuselah once predicted back in the day, PST took off like gang busters. It was far, Far FAR more popular than Pro Stock Bike and was beating out Pro Stock in TV ratings. Money was thin, sponsors were looking to dump PS, and NHRA (who loves to rob sponsors more than anyone else ever) panicked. Rather than getting rid of PSM and dumping Super Street...hell, they should have dropped ALL the Super class cars at the Nationals to make up room for PST.

Instead, they killed the class. And they are slowly draining the blood out of the class so they don’t end up back in court.

They are already regulating the hell out of FSS. The Chrysler guys are getting beat down, because GM owns that show too. They (NHRA) has also hemmed in any real chance to allow FSS to use a real, actual, functioning race clutch. Don’t get me started on that bullshit, because I know for a FACT there are plenty of teams out there that want to run a clutch, just not the birth control kind.

I could go on, but you get my point. The piss poor management across the decades at Glendora is now showing its age. ASScar is in the same boat. The same ASScar that banned the Hemi, made Chrysler lick its boots to come back, and then **** all over them letting Toyota see all the GM, Ford and Chrysler engines and letting them cherry pick what they wanted. Literally ASScarr allowed Toyota to rape engineering and data from everyone else. How shitty is that?

And don’t even get me started on why Toyota is in ASScar and Nissan isn’t. That is comical all on its own. Toyota was a distance second on that list, and when they failed to get their crap in one pile, Toyota ***** slapped ASScar. Don’t you wonder why Chrysler quit long before the eyties took over???

Things that make you go hmmmmmm.
 
Have not watched asscar or Gmnhra for about 4 yrs. Bunch of money grabbing rats. Football the same way. They say it's about the fans. Thats why they raise ticket and parking prices for play offs and certain teams.
 
scooter318 said:
Do something about the Chevy Camaro Pro Stock class
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I hit the agree button ,but their in g m`s pocket , most always have been . Even back when wally parks aplogized to Ronnie Sox over killing the hemi`s so bill crybaby jenkins could win. = MATTER OF RECORD !
 
yellow rose said:
That’s not an N/A class. Pro Stock isn’t hot because NHRA bitched it up. They ruled and regulated the class to death. Wouldn’t you want to see a carb’d car go up against an EFI junker in a heads up N/A race and let the best combo win? I know that’s what I wanted. I know I didn’t want the RPM rule, and not just because it was going to kill the Chryslers. NHRA has been factoring and indexing the MoPar stuff into the dirt since before I was born (well...maybe not that long but close).

Pro Stock was established to let the best N/A engine builders showcase their talent and abilities in front of the drag racing world. Like everything else, NHRA couldn’t get out of its own way.

You should know that Pro Stock Truck was brought in to do the same for small block engine builders and because trucks were outselling all that other junk 3-4:1 (expect for minivans, and if NHRA started a minivan class with V6 or junk **** 4 bangers I’d never watch any drag racing again and somehow I’d procure enough pain dope that I could go back to riding dirt bikes) and they needed a place for the trucks to do it.

And then, even as Methuselah once predicted back in the day, PST took off like gang busters. It was far, Far FAR more popular than Pro Stock Bike and was beating out Pro Stock in TV ratings. Money was thin, sponsors were looking to dump PS, and NHRA (who loves to rob sponsors more than anyone else ever) panicked. Rather than getting rid of PSM and dumping Super Street...hell, they should have dropped ALL the Super class cars at the Nationals to make up room for PST.

Instead, they killed the class. And they are slowly draining the blood out of the class so they don’t end up back in court.

They are already regulating the hell out of FSS. The Chrysler guys are getting beat down, because GM owns that show too. They (NHRA) has also hemmed in any real chance to allow FSS to use a real, actual, functioning race clutch. Don’t get me started on that bullshit, because I know for a FACT there are plenty of teams out there that want to run a clutch, just not the birth control kind.

I could go on, but you get my point. The piss poor management across the decades at Glendora is now showing its age. ASScar is in the same boat. The same ASScar that banned the Hemi, made Chrysler lick its boots to come back, and then **** all over them letting Toyota see all the GM, Ford and Chrysler engines and letting them cherry pick what they wanted. Literally ASScarr allowed Toyota to rape engineering and data from everyone else. How shitty is that?

And don’t even get me started on why Toyota is in ASScar and Nissan isn’t. That is comical all on its own. Toyota was a distance second on that list, and when they failed to get their crap in one pile, Toyota ***** slapped ASScar. Don’t you wonder why Chrysler quit long before the eyties took over???

Things that make you go hmmmmmm.
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Well said Yellow Rose as was your other post ! and very true!!! PST was a great class and the Dakotas were really cool!! One of the Pattersons old trucks is owned by a guy around here he brings it out once in awhile .. what a nice truck it still has the Mopar paint scheme.
 
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