I am Sooooo Confused over Paint

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charliec

charliec

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The title says it. '68 Dart. I will try to lay all the paint myself since I don't particularly need a show-car finish. Just want it to be acceptable, not exceptional. It'll be a weekend driver. Not a lot of straightening or filling to be done. No paint booth available. I don't want to spend an arm and a leg in a paint shop and wait forever to get something back that may or may not meet the "acceptable" criteria. So, I'm investigating paint, methods, etc. trying to educate myself before I waste time and money. Watching videos, reading articles, but I tell you they seem to be all over the board. Example: Eastwood has about 3 (maybe more) different brands of primers that they sell (Eastwood, Evercoat, POR...) and two or three different primers (expoxy, self etching..) and two or three different primer/fillers. To complicate matters, the properties of each seem to overlap; (high build, sandable, excellent adhesion over all sub-strates...); they all do it all. Eastwood labels required catalyst; Evercoat and POR seemingly don't. So which one to pick? The cheapest? Highest rated? :BangHead:

Then, there's equipment. HVLP, Conventional Gravity, Conventional Siphon....

Then there's color coat. Single stage, base coat/clear coat,...

What do you do with engine compartment? Is there a single paint "type" good for both engine bay and exterior body?

Under trunk lid, under hood, trunk, door jambs/hinges, etc. the same paint as the rest? But what if I'm using base/clear? Do you do those areas the same, or is a single stage appropriate substitute for those seldom viewed areas?

Ultimately I know that no one can make these decisions but me, but dang it, it's got my head spinning. I don't want to go spend hundreds on the wrong and/or incompatible stuff.

Is there a "Car Painting for Dummies" book out there somewhere?
 
Spi
Use there epoxy on bare metal do your body work over it then use their high build primer then whatever base your chose and spi universal clear. There customer service in hands down the best! And you can text Barry and ask for help at pretty much any time. He recommended I get my base from a guy name Chad he sent me some high quality stuff and my job turned out amazing. I have nothing but a harbor freight compressor and a harbor freight paint gun. I sprayed outside also. If I can do it anyone can. Spi is top quality and affordable I highly recommend it! I'll have to dig thru my phone and find you some pics.
https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/epoxy-primer
 
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Here are some pics of my paint job as you can see i did the engine bay and door jams and all the areas I can't get to later then when the body work is finished I can just paint the outside

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X 2 on SPI
I had my car done by a local guy on the side. He really liked the SPI stuff EXCEPT he’s a sprayer in a high volume shop and isn’t used to the wait times some of their stuff requires.
Used the SPI Epoxy, some filler, sealed work with more epoxy & painted my car with shop line ( I think) from the local NAPA paint supply, & cleared it with a few coats of the SPI
After now seeing the whole process, if I was to do it again, I would probably tackle it, I just didn’t want to have what turned into an expensive 8 year project loosed up by trying to paint myself with 0 experience
 
Paint is a tricky subject. I did body and paint for 20years. You can ask 100 guys and get 100 answers. My advice to you is educate yourself as much as possible. Go to shops and talk watch videos etc. Generally with paint you get what you pay for in terms of material. But nowadays there are many good lower priced alternatives. The best thing i can recommend is start with quality materials from the bottom up. Epoxy first then body work. Good primer/sealer. After that topcoats are about all the same nowadays
 
dartfreak75 said:
Spi
Use there epoxy on bare metal do your body work over it then use their high build primer then whatever base your chose and spi universal clear. There customer service in hands down the best! And you can text Barry and ask for help at pretty much any time. He recommended I get my base from a guy name Chad he sent me some high quality stuff and my job turned out amazing. I have nothing but a harbor freight compressor and a harbor freight paint gun. I sprayed outside also. If I can do it anymore can. Spi is top quality and affordable I highly recommend it! I'll have to dig thru my phone and find you some pics.
https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/epoxy-primer
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All painted with SPI products (Automotive Arts Motobase for the Blue and Turquoise base). These are the only 3 cars I have painted and they were all done outside and guided by Barry and the folks on the SPI forums.... SPI customer service and techline (which is the owners cell phone) can not be matched. Also the dollars are thousands not hundreds of dollars for quality products by the time you get done unfortunately.

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Jim Kueneman said:
All painted with SPI products (Automotive Arts Motobase for the Blue and Turquoise base). These are the only 3 cars I have painted and they were all done outside and guided by Barry and the folks on the SPI forums.... SPI customer service and techline (which is the owners cell phone) can not be matched. Also the dollars are thousands not hundreds of dollars for quality products by the time you get done unfortunately.

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Moto base is what I used also! Did you get yours from Chad's ?
 
Jim Kueneman said:
All painted with SPI products (Automotive Arts Motobase for the Blue and Turquoise base). These are the only 3 cars I have painted and they were all done outside and guided by Barry and the folks on the SPI forums.... SPI customer service and techline (which is the owners cell phone) can not be matched. Also the dollars are thousands not hundreds of dollars for quality products by the time you get done unfortunately.

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You do amazing work! I have followed all three of your builds your skills blow my mind!
 
For what its worth, paint advice from a non-paint skilled, more engine builder type. Just did some painting, outdoors, for the first time in about 35 years. Had to buy all new paint supplies and since I've been buying stuff from Summit because they have good stock and ship fast I thought I would give them a try for paint. Painted a new glass hood for my project with the Summit brand 2k high build primer and single stage urethane. It looks like the Summit stuff is less expensive than the SPI products from what I can see. Happy with the results, more fumes than I remember from the days I used the old Centari product and was glad to have the HF $18 P95 respirator.

If you don't have anything, buy a modern low pressure gun, HVLP or something, seems like a $150 should buy one that works for a first timer; because I had it don't plan on doing too much paint I used my 40 year old Binks conventional gun with a high pressure of about 55psi.

Whatever brand paint you use I would say buy all the paint products from the same source and don't mix brands of paint and activator, etc. Buy the epoxy for the bare metal and 2k surface primer to smooth it out, pre paint surface cleaning products, gun wash solvent, fish eye remover, etc. Buy all your top-coat at once and mix the paint, (1 gallon + 1quart for a Dart?), so the whole car looks the same. You might be ok with the single stage on the underside side stuff and save some, but I imagine you would want to finish with a gallon of a few coats of clear on the exterior.

Its probably going to take more paint and cost a lot more than you think; it was about $300 for supplies to paint my hood, but I have left over from the gallons of primer and top-coat for a later deck lid project. If you follow directions and try a little practice before putting paint on the outside of your car, you can do it.
 
I agree that you don't mix products. Different manufacturers use different solvents in there products and, it can cause bad reactions such as lifting or crows feet. Epoxy first then, body work after that 3 heavy wet coats of 2K filler primer then, start blocking...priming....blocking...when you think it's good...prime and block again. After that I put 2 more wet coats of 2K on and wet sand with 400 to remove and sand scratches.

Your paint job will only be as good as your work is underneath it. I never paint a car that I didn't do the body work on....NEVER!!!
I only use PPG products and have never had an issue. Cleanliness is paramount when it comes time to paint....here are the last few I painted.

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Okay, best thread I've read in a LONG time!

I've got a car that's got cancer, bad.
When pulling parts like frame rails and rocker panels and replacing them, what's the prep to insure no more cancer?

Weld through primer, weld em in, good to go, or is there a way and a product to put inside to make they stay rust free? Add drain holes?
 
jos51700 said:
Okay, best thread I've read in a LONG time!

I've got a car that's got cancer, bad.
When pulling parts like frame rails and rocker panels and replacing them, what's the prep to insure no more cancer?

Weld through primer, weld em in, good to go, or is there a way and a product to put inside to make they stay rust free? Add drain holes?
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In the world of structural welding, there is no such thing called "weld through primer". A good primer over properly prepared metal ground away from the weld zone is the proper repair from my point of view.
There is an awesome product called "Like 90" that penetrates the weld zone better than any other product I have found.
 
Bodyperson said:
In the world of structural welding, there is no such thing called "weld through primer". A good primer over properly prepared metal ground away from the weld zone is the proper repair from my point of view.
There is an awesome product called "Like 90" that penetrates the weld zone better than any other product I have found.
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So it penetrates AFTER you're done welding?
 
jos51700 said:
So it penetrates AFTER you're done welding?
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If you can get to it. It wicks very well. Don't get me wrong. I have used tons of weld through primer. For structural welds the weld zone should have the least amount of impurities as possible.
 
jos51700 said:
Okay, best thread I've read in a LONG time!

I've got a car that's got cancer, bad.
When pulling parts like frame rails and rocker panels and replacing them, what's the prep to insure no more cancer?

Weld through primer, weld em in, good to go, or is there a way and a product to put inside to make they stay rust free? Add drain holes?
Click to expand...


When it is apart it needs to be blasted to Grey metal (no dark pits that is rust) then 2 heavy coats of epoxy before you assemble it. Most of the professionals on the SPI forum just use SPI epoxy for the “weld through primer”. Grind a drill flat to use as a scraper to clean out then epoxy in the spot weld hole before welding. The epoxy can take a lot of heat. When done try to brush epoxy from the inside and let it ooze into the welded joint. About the best you can do without a big tank of epoxy and dip it 1/3 of the way up like the factory did.
 
Jim Kueneman said:
When it is apart it needs to be blasted to Grey metal (no dark pits that is rust) then 2 heavy coats of epoxy before you assemble it. Most of the professionals on the SPI forum just use SPI epoxy for the “weld through primer”. Grind a drill flat to use as a scraper to clean out then epoxy in the spot weld hole before welding. The epoxy can take a lot of heat. When done try to brush epoxy from the inside and let it ooze into the welded joint. About the best you can do without a big tank of epoxy and dip it 1/3 of the way up like the factory did.
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This is exactly how I do it too. Then use the "Like 90" product.
 
I grind the new welds, then soak just the weld area in Ospho, (phosphoric acid solution) second wet coat and then neutralize with water. BR CAREFUL, if not neutralized you can get a reaction with the epoxy primer you apply over it!!!
I treat inside of doors and any other area I an get to and used either epoxy primer, then then urethane or enamel topcoat, then undercoat etc. Inside of doors and insides of trunk extensions and inside of fenders at the brace are always waiting to bit your *** later!
 
barbee6043 said:
I grind the new welds, then soak just the weld area in Ospho, (phosphoric acid solution) second wet coat and then neutralize with water. BR CAREFUL, if not neutralized you can get a reaction with the epoxy primer you apply over it!!!
I treat inside of doors and any other area I an get to and used either epoxy primer, then then urethane or enamel topcoat, then undercoat etc. Inside of doors and insides of trunk extensions and inside of fenders at the brace are always waiting to bit your *** later!
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After I grid them I just bring out the blaster and blast the weld area before more epoxy. Another option.
 
charliec said:
Eastwood labels required catalyst; Evercoat and POR seemingly don't. So which one to pick? The cheapest? Highest rated? :BangHead:

?
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Also please don't use those products.. you hit the nail on the head without maybe realizing it... do you know what activates those products? moisture..... They were made to coat oil rigs out in the ocean so need to cure in a wet environment. What the professional restoration guys on the SPI site will share is their experiences with vehicles that they knocked the POR off and the metal under was gone. It absorbs moisture to dry then traps that moisture against the metal and it continues to rust. There will be proponents of POR and those type products saying the metal was not prepped correct. My argument is if you spend the time to remove all the rust to prep it right then all you really need after that is epoxy primer anyway.
 
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^^^ I agree. Clean metal, epoxy primer, AND topcoat that with urethane primer AND topcoat with whatever, on the floors, etc Good ole thick and heavy Rusteoleum enamel works great! IF not floors, topcoat with real auto paint, acrylic urethane, enamel or bc/cc. Screw POR15!
 
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