Another cam degree question

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volaredon

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I tried asking this in the other cam degee thread from a few days ago but it got glossed over within that one.
Most of our /6s have solid lifters with adjustable lash. When degreeing a cam with solids do I have to temporarily adjust lash to 0, while degreeing the cam? Cuz otherwise to turn the cam/crank to where you start getting lift it'll put your readings off, while taking up the lash.
 
volaredon said:
I tried asking this in the other cam degee thread from a few days ago but it got glossed over within that one.
Most of our /6s have solid lifters with adjustable lash. When degreeing a cam with solids do I have to temporarily adjust lash to 0, while degreeing the cam? Cuz otherwise to turn the cam/crank to where you start getting lift it'll put your readings off, while taking up the lash.
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Correct. I do mine as a short block though and use the lifter bore tool for the dial indicator. But if you have the head on, yes, adjust to zero lash.
 
I have something similar, I bought it from Goodson. But there are plenty of ways to skin a cat. I have an indicator with about a 6in plunger, or I have a 1in travel indicator with replaceable tips, so you can customize your setup to your particular situation. Of course, it helps to have several types of magnetic bases and "linkages" to orient the indicators to fit around obstacles.
Coming off of the rocker arm would be less than ideal, but sometimes you have to make do with what you have.
I can't stress enough, you need to find the exact TDC to orient the degree wheel, and you should check the mark on the dampener, and match mark the inner hub and outer ring, so that if it should slip in the future, you will be able to recognize it easily.
 
RustyRatRod said:
This.

Proform Parts 66843 Proform Cam Checker Tools | Summit Racing

Sticks into the lifter bore to hold the dial indicator perfectly perpendicular to the camshaft center line. If you have the head on already, you cannot use it.
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just bought one of those from Feebay. came out a bit less w/ free shipping there than Summit or Jegs would have been
also got me a barette from a different seller so I can hopefully CC my head for this engine. wish I could have had someone close I could borrow each from, for "this" job....
 
The lash is the same coming as going so it will not affect your degreeing, so long as the lifter stays on the cam. The numbers may not match the cam card, but after you do the math, the center angle comes to the same thing.
But it is easier if the lash is set to zero
 
@MOPAROFFICIAL Why the disagreement, with anything I post??? W T F ? Most that you "disagree" with, there is nothing about the post, to wager an agree/disagree in the 1st place..... seems like you are here just to stir problems, you come out here as a blow hard, thinking that nobody else here can possibly know anything/ besides you.... was reading some old posts on something I searched for, and you seem to do the same to everyone. if the rest of us "don't know anything" or there's an easier way than what is posted why not steer the post-er right, instead? We know "something" but certainly not "everything," as you appear to do.... which is why most of us are here to begin with... to learn the right way to do things. or clear up something we just aren't "sure" of.
 
rustycowll69 said:
I have something similar, I bought it from Goodson. But there are plenty of ways to skin a cat. I have an indicator with about a 6in plunger, or I have a 1in travel indicator with replaceable tips, so you can customize your setup to your particular situation. Of course, it helps to have several types of magnetic bases and "linkages" to orient the indicators to fit around obstacles.
Coming off of the rocker arm would be less than ideal, but sometimes you have to make do with what you have.
I can't stress enough, you need to find the exact TDC to orient the degree wheel, and you should check the mark on the dampener, and match mark the inner hub and outer ring, so that if it should slip in the future, you will be able to recognize it easily.
Click to expand...
well my damper is brand newly rebuilt from Damper Dudes, has yet to be put on an engine since it came back.... for what it cost, it damn well better be right with TDC. shipping cost as much again, as the service they provide....
 
The Damper does not know where TDC is, Even the piston doesn't. At ABOUT TDC the the crank can be out a degree or two and the piston doesn't even move.
You have to find TDC and if the damper is wrong, it ain't the fault of the damper; it just is what it is. So then you would reposition your indicator before you begin degreeing. No big deal.
 
volaredon said:
well my damper is brand newly rebuilt from Damper Dudes, has yet to be put on an engine since it came back.... for what it cost, it damn well better be right with TDC. shipping cost as much again, as the service they provide....
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Don, when degreeing a cam in a slant six I use a regular solid lifter, a hydraulic pushrod and a magnetic base with a dial indicator mounted. Have the block mounted in an engine rollover with the combustion surface straight up without the head installed. Install a lifter, set a pushrod in place and use the tip of the dial indicator in the oil passage hole of the pushrod end to hold the pushrod straight. With the cam set so the lifter is on the base circle, gently pull the pushrod up to verify the dial indicator has enough travel to cover the lift of the cam.
This is better than having the head on as the placement of the dial indicator tip is directly above the cam lobe, if on a rocker arm you could induce some gauge error if the indicator tip is on an angled surface. Plus the engine is easier to turn, no valve spring movement. I normally do the cam degree with only the #1 piston installed, again it is easier to be precise with turning the crank. Lastly, verify TDC, re mark the damper if it is off. To do so I will fill the existing damper mark with epoxy, then cut a new mark in the correct location with a dremmel tool and a thin disk.
And remember on a slant the intake lobe is the second lobe from the front.
 
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I've done this on V8s before and was never sure of myself as to whether I was doing this exactly right. So I've gotten aggravated about 1/2 of the time and said "screw it", aligned the dots and called it good.
 
AJ/FormS said:
The Damper does not know where TDC is, Even the piston doesn't. At ABOUT TDC the the crank can be out a degree or two and the piston doesn't even move.
You have to find TDC and if the damper is wrong, it ain't the fault of the damper; it just is what it is. So then you would reposition your indicator before you begin degreeing. No big deal.
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Yeah I definitely get that/but I certainly wouldn't have a damper in place or the timing cover on, while degreeing a cam. So at that point the damper or it's TDC position wouldn't even come into play, it wouldn't be til I drop the distributor in and set ignition timing that the mark on the damper would mean a thing
 
volaredon said:
Yeah I definitely get that/but I certainly wouldn't have a damper in place or the timing cover on, while degreeing a cam. So at that point the damper or it's TDC position wouldn't even come into play, it wouldn't be til I drop the distributor in and set ignition timing that the mark on the damper would mean a thing
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How big a hurry you in?
 
volaredon said:
Yeah I definitely get that/but I certainly wouldn't have a damper in place or the timing cover on, while degreeing a cam. So at that point the damper or it's TDC position wouldn't even come into play, it wouldn't be til I drop the distributor in and set ignition timing that the mark on the damper would mean a thing
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It's not easy wrapping your head around cam timing and degree wheels.

Here are a few pictures that will help to check see that your Dampener outter band has not moved and that TDC is correct on the dampener in relation to the crankshaft with with front of the engine opened up and cam timing lined up dot to dot.

Want to establish that #1 is right on TDC, then your Crankshaft Keyway will be pointing straight up in this position. On the slant 6.

Now look at your Dampener with crank keyway straight up and see where the TDC mark is on the Dampener.

Then look at your timing cover and the TDC Mark to see that correlates with it all.

Dot to Dot, crank keyway straight up.
Slant6Timing.jpeg


Slant6Timing2.jpeg



Up on #1 Dot to Dot, crank keyway straight up.
SlantCrankKey.jpeg


20210714_073329.jpg


__________

I use these handy 7" dampener Degree Wheels that show the crankshaft keyway and the Dampener TDC mark lined up properly.

These are for 318 and 360 respectively.

20210711_184817.jpg


As you can see on the small blocks, the crankshaft keyway falls about 5 degrees ATDC when dampener's outter ring is in the correct position.

The slant 6 is going to be different.
 
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volaredon said:
Yeah I definitely get that/but I certainly wouldn't have a damper in place or the timing cover on, while degreeing a cam. So at that point the damper or it's TDC position wouldn't even come into play, it wouldn't be til I drop the distributor in and set ignition timing that the mark on the damper would mean a thing
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I'm confused. Didn't you do the original posting where you were whining about how hard it was to degree in the cam and wanting tips how to do it? Then when many members take the time to post suggestions, tips, and hints for you, you pooh pooh them as too much work, or unnecessary. Am I right?
 
rustycowll69 said:
I'm confused. Didn't you do the original posting where you were whining about how hard it was to degree in the cam and wanting tips how to do it? Then when many members take the time to post suggestions, tips, and hints for you, you pooh pooh them as too much work, or unnecessary. Am I right?
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No you're not.
I asked a small question about 1 part of the process and others expanded on it. Which is appreciated.
Was I wrong in saying that the damper and timing cover will not be mounted on the engine during the cam timing degree process? While on the bench, it don't matter where that mark on the damper is at that point. I have a crank socket that holds the degree wheel, can't have that and the damper on the crank snout together at any given time. Right?

Then I told of what I've done in the past, on other engines/ where I tried to degree things in, got confused, and said "screw it", lined up the dots and called it good. Cuz then, I didn't quite get it.
That was a very long time ago, on past projects. way before I created this post, I came here asking questions so I can make sure that I'm doing it right this time around. Got it ?
Why would I have gone and bought that special dial indicator that fits in place of a lifter/ if I was gonna pooh pooh things and not take the advice given?
 
Once the cam is degreed in and I'm satisfied that my cam timing is right, I get the timing cover back on and get ready to install the damper "for good" wouldn't that then be the time to dial indicate a piston to TDC and check out the timing mark accuracy/ . To me this would be after I'm 100% done with the cam /not during the cam degree process.
2 separate deals going on there.
 
are you saying you can't have the dampener and the degree wheel on at the same time? If so, then you're wrong. I have spacers that I use like washers, and a longer crank bolt, to hold both on together.
 
volaredon said:
Not very, why do you ask?
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Because All I have left is having the block milled on my long rod engine and I'll be able to assemble the short block. I would do a how to on degreeing a camshaft in a slant 6. It's really no different than anything else, though. I'm going to TRY to get it done next month. I don't know if I can. If I can sell some more of my stuff in the for sale section, I probably can.
 
Ok this thread has gone all kinds of sideways since I asked my original question. To include my putting MOPAR OFFICIAL on "ignore". Never had to do that before. He sure likes that red "x" button in places it isn't called for.
 
volaredon said:
Ok this thread has gone all kinds of sideways since I asked my original question. To include my putting MOPAR OFFICIAL on "ignore". Never had to do that before. He sure likes that red "x" button in places it isn't called for.
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My bad. It happens. Refresh all our memories what your original concern was.
 
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