Today, dollar for dollar, is the 318 faster than the 340 ???

would you agree ?

  • yep, the 318 wins if buying and building for under 3k

    Votes: 48 41.7%
  • Nope, the 340 always has and always will beat the 318

    Votes: 57 49.6%
  • Actually, never thought about it like this... Good Point !

    Votes: 10 8.7%

  • Total voters
    115
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Believe what you want, 4" bore is not "magic".

Yes it is. Think about it - The 1970 Trans Am cars were running de-stroked 340's (4" bore!) and probably made 600+ hp. Why dispute facts and reason? Why bother with this kind of nonsense you see below? Those fly cuts in the pistons are almost laughable. If you're already going to spend money on "better" parts to hop the thing up, do it right, skip the 318 and go straight to the 360.

As most here are probably aware, that pic is from that "Junkyard Jewel" article that Steve Dulcich wrote like 100 years ago. Read it, it says essentially the same things I say in my post. No matter though, some people still hold it up to be the Tabula rasa of cheapskate Mopar engine building. If it's so easy why don't you see 400hp 318's al over the place?

318 Small Block Build - How To - Hot Rod Magazine

In all the years since that article was written, I have yet to see anyone step up and duplicate the recipe, probably because A) it's not that easy and B) most guys realize it's not worth the effort and expense just to prove a point. I think most guys miss the crux of the biscuit anyway, he's not just bolting **** together and saying it makes 400 hp which was probably a stretch anyway.

But hey, if that's what you want, go for it! Do all the same **** he did, use the same parts (like you say, use the best factory heads!) and methods. Prove it to everyone it can be done. Take it to a dyno and tell us the number then put it in a car and take to the track and see what times it runs in real-world circumstances.

318s are good boat anchors but that's about it.
113_0304_junk07_z.jpg
 
Yes it is. Think about it - The 1970 Trans Am cars were running de-stroked 340's (4" bore!) and probably made 600+ hp. Why dispute facts and reason? Why bother with this kind of nonsense you see below? Those fly cuts in the pistons are almost laughable. If you're already going to spend money on "better" parts to hop the thing up, do it right, skip the 318 and go straight to the 360.

As most here are probably aware, that pic is from that "Junkyard Jewel" article that Steve Dulcich wrote like 100 years ago. Read it, it says essentially the same things I say in my post. No matter though, some people still hold it up to be the Tabula rasa of cheapskate Mopar engine building. If it's so easy why don't you see 400hp 318's al over the place?

318 Small Block Build - How To - Hot Rod Magazine

In all the years since that article was written, I have yet to see anyone step up and duplicate the recipe, probably because A) it's not that easy and B) most guys realize it's not worth the effort and expense just to prove a point. I think most guys miss the crux of the biscuit anyway, he's not just bolting **** together and saying it makes 400 hp which was probably a stretch anyway.

But hey, if that's what you want, go for it! Do all the same **** he did, use the same parts (like you say, use the best factory heads!) and methods. Prove it to everyone it can be done. Take it to a dyno and tell us the number then put it in a car and take to the track and see what times it runs in real-world circumstances.

318s are good boat anchors but that's about it.
View attachment 1715774271

Facts? Reason? What a joke you are. I have actually built these street motors. Not race car stuff, not Trailer Queens, not Dyno racing, or not bench racing. Look it up, I don't have to do anything, or prove anything. The numbers are in the NHRA records. I'm not the one saying something can't be done, or telling someone they don't know what they are talking about. You keep believing in "Magic" and BS-ing in a thread comparing the cost of a HP 340 or HP 318. In Class racing it is about airflow. Not bore size. You don't even know what the conversation is or about. Wa Wa 360 Wa Wa.
 
These threads are always kind of silly. You couldn't give me a 318, even just for a "peppy" street motor. About 12 years ago had a '71 Dart with a bone-stock 318 2bbl. It could actually smoke the tires easily, made some torque but would not rpm past 3,500-4,000, tops. Took it to the track in this form once just for fun, ran a 17.67 1/4 mile at like 71 mph or something.




I went 15.9 @ 84 mph in a stone-stock 318 2bbl auto, 2.94 gears in a 4 door B-body.
 
Air was real good that day
Normal hot summer day at the drag way. I couldn't nail it hard off the line or mr. peg leg would have put a tire up in smoke. Probably 15.8 with just one drag radial on the passenger side :)
 
Holy smokes, I have not kept up with this thread for awhile. It turned out as most would have guessed. My only thought is, which one of you, when you were a young broke gearhead didn’t read everything you could to make whatever engine was already in your car the best it could be? To just toss it out and start over simply wasn’t realistic as you opened another bag of top ramen noodles and shivered because the heat was set on 58. Many of us were raised on 318s. We simply got the most we could out of them dreaming of a 440 some day. Now that we are old fat and have a spare dollar or two it makes perfect sense to drift away from the 318 but that was not the question posed by the OP. Dollar for dollar pound for pound running what ya got always wins when you just don’t have a lot of extra cash.
 
Keep in mind.... my current '74 Duster.....
stone-stock 318 2bbl with dual exhaust. I put exactly 498 bucks into it including carb and gaskets, and ran high 14's at about 95 mph. Still stock converter and 2.76 gears. Again, under 500 and I ran what '73 340 Dusters ran and even more mph, with my 2.76 gears.
 
I like a 318!
My duster which is on here ran high 14s at 93. I dynoed it at the shop the day I bought it 22yrs ago and it made 175 whp.

I just installed a magnum 318 in this dakota and it feels like a weak baby sister. Thinking either it’s wore out or I have the fuel sync way off, replacing with a hemi this fall anyway

8F7E863E-1D8A-4BBE-A05B-A4007553FA1D.jpeg


41A7B034-5511-4271-BB0E-1CABCD774DFA.jpeg
 
There’s no magical 4” bore , 4” bore shrouds the valves too just less than a 3.91” bore, but at the power level we’re dealing with is that big a deal ??

If you built a 0.060” 318 with a 4” stroke 396 and a 0.040” 360 with a 4” stroke 410, built the same like trick flows 285 cam 10.5:1 Cr etc.. is the 4.04” vs 3.97” bore gonna make that huge of a difference?? Even 3.94” ??

Not saying there won’t be a difference but a lot smaller than most on here seem to think.
 
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Anyone still have the 14 second or better 318 timeslips.

Guess my stock 340 15.0 and 14.6 cars were slow compared to those stock 318s.

In 76 I had a 66 318 (4dr) Dart, bought from a little old lady, $300 ... put a fresh tune and fluids ... ran great, after the trans fluid change even occasionally chipped second with those little wheels.
Never took it to the track to race but ... did race it to the grocery store. My guess mid 17s
 
Anyone still have the 14 second or better 318 timeslips.

Guess my stock 340 15.0 and 14.6 cars were slow compared to those stock 318s.

In 76 I had a 66 318 (4dr) Dart, bought from a little old lady, $300 ... put a fresh tune and fluids ... ran great, after the trans fluid change even occasionally chipped second with those little wheels.
Never took it to the track to race but ... did race it to the grocery store. My guess mid 17s
The 66 would have been a 273 unless Granny slipped in a 318 LA under the hood. She wasn't from Pasadena was she? "Go granny go"
 
i don't know what you guys are arguing about...for a long time the LS engines
made by the General (i know) had a 3.9 bore and 3.6 stroke and they were capable of making a bit of power.
Many are happy with 300 hp...some are never happy and as already stated..how much do you want to spend?
 
Anyone still have the 14 second or better 318 timeslips.

Guess my stock 340 15.0 and 14.6 cars were slow compared to those stock 318s.

In 76 I had a 66 318 (4dr) Dart, bought from a little old lady, $300 ... put a fresh tune and fluids ... ran great, after the trans fluid change even occasionally chipped second with those little wheels.
Never took it to the track to race but ... did race it to the grocery store. My guess mid 17s
66 would have been a 273, and 17's would be a fair guess. And my 318 I currently have in my '74 duster would beat your '73 340. That's not a knock on your 340. I did put 498 bucks into the 318 2bbl. I have since pulled the 4bbl off and added 2 4bbls.. lol. Now it's a 750 dollar 318.... Most have seen it, but in case you haven't...
 
Facts? Reason? What a joke you are. I have actually built these street motors. Not race car stuff, not Trailer Queens, not Dyno racing, or not bench racing. Look it up, I don't have to do anything, or prove anything. The numbers are in the NHRA records. I'm not the one saying something can't be done, or telling someone they don't know what they are talking about. You keep believing in "Magic" and BS-ing in a thread comparing the cost of a HP 340 or HP 318. In Class racing it is about airflow. Not bore size. You don't even know what the conversation is or about. Wa Wa 360 Wa Wa.

Lighten up, Francis. I’m not sure what your argument is and why you need to make it personal?

The 340/360 engines have a 4” bore while the 318 does not. That's a fact. I don't know about you but when building an engine and am given a choice between two blocks with the same external dimensions but one has a larger bore, I’m taking the larger bore EVERY time. Going by physics alone, the larger bore will always make more power because there is more up-swept volume and more volume translates to more air/fuel which = more power. Maybe you wouldn't make the same choice? If not, tell me why.

Also, I'm not sure but are you saying you have personally built NHRA Stock Eliminator 318 combos that held records? if so, please school me because I am forever fascinated by what class racers can do with marginal combos. What chassis in what class? How far under did you go, what elevation, temps. etc.

If you actually have been through that process (I have not myself but know some people that have) then I'm sure you would know it's an uphill battle and that a $3,000 budget wouldn't even be a drop in that bucket. Apologies if I did not interpret that correctly.

However, if you are using the Stock Eliminator angle to cite an example, its not really a valid point because class racing combos are highly specialized pieces. The same would hold true whether we're discussing a 318 in a '77 Volare wagon, an '82 4 cylinder Turbo Mustang or even a FWD Toranado.

Again, unless I'm missing something, the original point of this discussion was whether it's worth it to buy and build a 318 if your budget is $3,000. I say no. The other part of the question was whether or not a 340 is "better", to which I answer yes, every time, for the reasons I stated already.

I believe the reason this discussion has become relevant now is because it's not 1979, it's 2021. 40 years ago, 318s were left for dead because no one cared to bother with them. Going by what people have said for decades, presumably you could just make your way over to the local junkyard and pluck a 340 out of a '74 Road Runner for $50. Whether that was true back then or not I don't know but for sure it ain't happening now!

Standard bore 340s are obviously pretty scarce these days and rightfully command a high price when available. It makes sense, that's just basic supply and demand. Even the "resto" blocks that Mopar was casting 25 years ago are worth their weight in gold now if you can even find one.

But since finding a '74 Road Runner in a local junkyard that retains it's original 340 is not a realistic possibility anymore, people are probably looking at the crusty 318 they have sitting in the shed wondering what could be done to it to make it more fun (because it sucks in stock form). Problem is, no one wants to spend money on this idea because the fact is, it does not add up financially, especially when the cost of machine work is involved. Lipstick on a pig and all that.

Even if you think the supply of LA 360s is drying up, there are millions of 5.9 Magnum engines out there that would be a better candidate for a first-time or budget build over an old LA 318. Even if you're a bucks-down kid just starting out in the hobby, I'd still say to find a 360 or a 5.9 Magnum to start for the reasons I've already stated. It's not an emotional argument, it's economics based on facts and reason.

So without calling me names, telling me I don't know what I'm talking about or skirting around those pesky engine architecture facts, please explain to me why it's worth spending any money on a 318. Change my mind, I'm all ears.
 
I think the better question is

5.2l Magnum vs 360 LA yes there’s 5.9l out but there’s a ton of running 5.2l,
Yes the 318 is a great engine but it low cr and poor flowing heads handicaps to usually a sub 300 hp mild cam 4bbl header build, I feel if you took a 5.2l and a 360 LA and did xe268h China air gap and headers the 5.2l would be the better package and if you find a 5.9l all the better.

Too me Mopar people should see the Magnum as our 4.8ls/5.3ls are they as good no but they do respond well to cam, 4bbl, headers. Now if your talking full builds especially with aftermarket heads then any 360/5.9l would make a great base.
 
dollar for dollar 360 vs 383. :lol:
383 2bbl motors can be bought on the cheap..... 383 is a real bang for the buck. Unfortunately, in the mopar community, they fall in the same category as 318's...
 
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