408 or gen 3 hemi

-
SlantedDart said:
Wow didn’t know 6.4 head flowed that much. So get a 6.4 bore and stroke. Stock head with a port job. Single plane intake with my Holley system. What’s the deal with the cam shafts and vvt and all that other crap. Not too up to date on that stuff. Any experience with that?
Click to expand...
My vote is Gen3. I'm still gathering parts but I picked up a 6.4 block and heads a while back. You could roll a golf ball through the intake ports on the heads they are so huge. The 6.4 BGE would be a great foundation. It is found in RAM trucks (and SRTs) from I believe 2016 forward and is the same block as the Hellcat's and presumably strong enough to exceed 1000HP. MMX has many options for stroker kits or just drop-in forged pistons for all of the gen3s. I will say this, in the limited research I've done, gen3 hemi parts costs are high. After-market camshafts, intake manifolds even valve covers can get pricey compared to small block equivalents. Poke around on the MMX site to get a better idea. Good luck!
 
Won’t do a big block.. not going to happen haha. I know Mopar’s and money go hand in hand. Been around the Chrysler’s for a while. Neigbor has a 64 savoy with a 540 B1 motor and it was a high dollar piece. It takes money lol. But as for the LA motors I think it’s definitely possible with a 408 and GOOD head on it with 11:1. Not talking no plane jane edelbrock head. Heads got to flow 300+ for an la head..
I have to make headers anyways so that’s why the gen 3 came into play. Or 426 gen 3, 6.4 heads? Single plane intake with terminator efi , and a good size cam shaft would net a pretty good number I’m thinking. Probably a 727 also. I’d love to do a faceplated, pro shifted 5 speed but from what I’m seeing I’d have to do some cutting and I don’t want to..
 
Gen 3, 550hp at the tire for a small block is not a simple matter and is pretty high strung. An LA stock block is not that happy at that level. I’m building another 68 fastback and would go gen 3 if I didn’t have a BUNCH of LA stuff just laying around.
 
Oh, you can put 550 to the tire on the track with the leafs and a tire you can put in the stock wheel well. Not terribly hard. Street? You have to be careful.
 
My vote is a 8.0 viper and stroke it to a 9.0. You said you can fabricate so why not. The 8.0 is also a sb with 2 extra cylinders. Firewall will definitely have to be cut. It's more power than a bb and as light as a sb.
 
It’s all about the heads, 500-550 hp to the crank is fairly easy for both, wheels that’s a bit of a chore for either, hemi suppose to be a stronger block so at that level I’d lean towards the hemi, but really I would pick neither stroke 400/440 to 500 plus cid with trick flows or similar heads 650 plus hp easily and more streetable.
 
thesiren74 said:
Easy? 550 to the wheels with a 408 and be reliable?
Click to expand...

thesiren74 said:
A gen3 can do it and live.
Click to expand...

What makes it unreliable? Fix that. OIl pump mods, McCandless/ Guitar Jones oiling mods. Hyd. roller lifters (bushed LA or go Magnum). Good clearances.

The real money on the LA 500+ build is going to be in the heads & valvetrain. Something like T&D with Indy's, Hughes bigmouth Edelbrock's with CNC porting, Edelbrock Victor head, Trick Flow,..... plenty of option$.

justinp61 said:
550 at the rear wheels with a n/a small block isn't going to be a cheap endeavor either. Especially if you have nothing to start with.

I'd like to do a boosted Gen III but at this point I'm invested too deep in small blocks.
Click to expand...

Gen III can get very expensive too but I agree, the ceiling is higher with Gen III than with LA.

Someone said an LA isn't "happy" at these HP levels. That is comedy. When you take all the components off the block it is just iron and geometry. Metallurgy and geometry are there for a "happy" block at those levels. If the machining is good and the block is not damaged and is a good core it can go. The deck height is good on the LA, 360 bores are 4" and 340's 4.080"! The block has good clearance for stroker cranks. It's a good design that was hamstrung with shitty factory heads and low compression! Fix all that and it's happy times.

I get it. The Gen III has more potential and the cores are getting really cheap. It still costs money to machine and build. It can still cost 10-12-14K, which is about what it takes to get an LA to 500+ (happily).

You can argue parts, costs and HP potential but we're talking about a power level that is well within the possibilities for an LA. Nobody needs to discount the LA's reliability or limitations here.
 
SlantedDart said:
Won’t do a big block.. not going to happen haha. I know Mopar’s and money go hand in hand. Been around the Chrysler’s for a while. Neigbor has a 64 savoy with a 540 B1 motor and it was a high dollar piece. It takes money lol. But as for the LA motors I think it’s definitely possible with a 408 and GOOD head on it with 11:1. Not talking no plane jane edelbrock head. Heads got to flow 300+ for an la head..
I have to make headers anyways so that’s why the gen 3 came into play. Or 426 gen 3, 6.4 heads? Single plane intake with terminator efi , and a good size cam shaft would net a pretty good number I’m thinking. Probably a 727 also. I’d love to do a faceplated, pro shifted 5 speed but from what I’m seeing I’d have to do some cutting and I don’t want to..
Click to expand...

You think a 600 hp plus stroked hemi or sb is gonna be cheaper than a big block? You can just put trick flows on a stock stroke 440 and make 600 hp plus. Don’t need to do B1’s for your power.
 
Its a shame you aren't closer to me, a buddy of mine is selling a 2010 5.7 hemi long block. I played with the idea of keeping it for myself but decided I would never run it to its full potential so there is no point (for me)
 
mygasser said:
you're dead against an LS then? cheap to buy and build, small block size too :poke:
Click to expand...
Had an ls swapped mustang. 5.7 with a cam only and carb went 10.70.. I know I went backwards right? Lol. Can’t bring myself to put a ls in a mopar. Love the ls amazing engine I loved beating up vettes in the mustang. Need ls type power without a 440 boat anchor..
 
273 said:
You think a 600 hp plus stroked hemi or sb is gonna be cheaper than a big block? You can just put trick flows on a stock stroke 440 and make 600 hp plus. Don’t need to do B1’s for your power.
Click to expand...
I’d just hate the weight of a big block. I’d rather spend more money than have extra lb hanging on the nose..
 
I agree with the weight on the nose. If I did go big block it would be a 383 or 400 block. Still tight but better. With striker kits for sb you get the best of both worlds. It’s just so damn easy to make 600 to 650 with a big block.
 
'68cuda416 said:
Yeah do a big block.....the car will handle like crap and they hog up all the room in an A bodies engine compartment so they are a real pain to work on. Some of you guys seem to enjoy working extra hard and going slow....
Click to expand...
Huh really cause I have no problems with handling or working on mine.
 
Based on a quick internet search, the SB block is ~170 lbs and the BB block is ~234. Low deck blocks seem closer to the 200 lbs mark. So the difference is roughly 60 pounds. A 5.7/6.1 block is supposed to weigh around 165-170lbs.

Final build weight will vary, but with all alloy parts and headers a BBM can be built to be pretty close to a SBM weight. It'll make plenty more power enough to justify the weight IMO - but we all know what they say about opinions.
 
I've found it actually easier to work on than my sb, did a head swap and left the header's in place.
 
You know what I run and love. LA small blocks to the front
13FFE610-144F-43CF-AAC9-8A794BEF9D5F.jpeg
 
550-ish rwhp is in the 650-700hp range at the crank.

I really don’t see an NA 408/416 build at that power level, based on a factory/stock block, being the picture of reliability.
 
For me it would boil down to the front suspension in the car...if I going with an alterktion I would do the Gen 3 hemi...if it still had the torsion bars I would go LA small block
 
Gen 3 Hemi all the way. Great heads and very stable bottom end straight from the factory, its a great package i do like smallblocks in many ways and love hot smallblocks on the street but the G3 is just supperior in most ways.
BTW is that terminator EFI one of the TBI style EFI systems? Is that system also capable of controling the Gen3 hemis ignitionsystem? trying to learn here.
 
you need a 6.2 Hellcat Redeye engine to even compete will the 807 hp Hellcat.
I think your old Dart will start to go airborne about the time the Hellcat starts winding up.
I think you're picking a race you can't win. Good Luck.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top