Today, dollar for dollar, is the 318 faster than the 340 ???

rmchrgr said:

Sorry but I think this idea is a little flawed. First of all, it's the internet, people just say whatever **** comes to their mind (fingers?) without really thinking it through. Maybe they just read a line or two of someone's post and type out "get a 340" as the automatic reply. Gotta wade through the detritus just like with everything else.

I think most guys here (who are old enough) know the reality of 2021 is different than the reality of 2001, let alone 1981, there's just not that many good 340 blocks around to build anymore. As we all know, 340s were produced for what, 6 model years? Plus the cars it came in were comparatively low production vehicles because 340 was the premium small block engine. Even the 360 4bbl cars never held the same cache as the high-winding 340s.

Chrysler's meat'n'potatoes was 318-equipped basic transportation cars, fleet vehicles and trucks. Aunt Ethel could probably gave a rat's *** about a 340 Duster but she sure loved putting her Sherwood green 318 Scamp to chruch every Sunday. Maybe she even thought it was peppy!

Then think about how many kids in the '70s and '80s blew 340s up or even just tossed them in the dumpster when they were done with 'em. If they had the foresight to know the supply of blocks would be non-existent 30-40 years later they may have thought twice. They didn't though because they had fun while it lasted and moved on to the next thing.

So here we are now debating whether lame-*** 318s are going to be "faster" than a 340 because you can't find any good, cheap blocks anymore. Does that make sense? No. But Guys on the internet still say to build a 340 which for whatever reason ruffles some feathers.

318s suck, I would never advise anyone to waste money trying to wring any amount of power out of one, it's not worth the expense. It's like the loony Slant 6 guys, these types have a Napoleon complex. Get over it, buy a 360, stroke it to 422 and be happy. Life is too short to waste money trying to prove a point that no one cares about. If guys want to prove they can do it then go for it, make us all believers but stop making weird arguments trying to convince people otherwise.

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318willrun said:

If you don't think a 318 can run, then you may be the one stuck in the 80's. There are some seriously fast small cube motors now, welcome to 2021. Not being rude or controversy. There was a guy right here on FABO that offered to races those 422 for $$$ with his 318. We are away from the discussion, just say'n....

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rmchrgr said:

Bet he's got more than $3K in it. Also bet it's not even a 318 but tells everyone it is. Bet it's also huffing a lot of nitrous. Just like having a roller cam 512" low deck with a 383 pie tin on the air cleaner. "Yeah, it's just a mild buildup with parts I had layin' around, nothin' crazy. Wanna race?" But I digress.

I'd like to see some of these fast 2021-technology small cube motors. Are we still talking about your young man with a 4 door Dart 318 running 8 seconds on a 3 grand budget? Can't keep moving the goal posts. Thought this whole discussion was about low-budget street motors.

There was a guy that used to be on here many years ago out of the northern Midwest somewhere, victory273. Matt I think was his name, had a machine shop. Ran this '66 Valiant in NHRA SS/K with a 273/4 speed combo. That was sick ride, think he did OK with it. Very well thought out and well executed car. He was a machinist so he was able to do his own work but he very likely had $3K in the heads alone.
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There was another NHRA stock '65 Valiant several years back with a 273 from the Pacific Northwest, this red car driven by Angela Bushmaker. They were in J/SA or K/SA. I believe they had it in the 11.70s which is not bad for that class. Another very well scienced out car and not cheap in any way shape or form. I was into this thing, so cool.
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But these "fast small cube" cars are really not what we're talking about, right? NHRA class cars are close to pro level pieces and are generally high dollar efforts, even in the middle classes. I'm just trying to prove I'm not biased against one thing or another and that I've actually taken some time to learn about unusual combos. I'd take a solid lifter 273 over any 318 all day.

Again, my overall disagreement here is with your premise that spending $3K or under on a free 318 will net a better result because the 340 block will eat up too much of the overall budget. That's a non-sequitur argument, I'm not sure you can correlate two such disparate ideas while trying to make a comparison.

Really though, nobody is steering any budding hot rod kids in the wrong direction or giving them bad advice by suggesting they build a 340. I'd even go so far as to say it might even be better to discourage someone from spending any money on something that's marginal at best and ultimately wind up being disappointed in the results.

Maybe you or someone you know had a hot 318 that ran OK and it surprised some people but that's not the norm. Regardless, it seems like you've become stuck on this idea that these little **** motors are somehow more capable now than anyone had ever known before. I don't think so.

Either way, I'm glad I still have that extra 340 and roller block 360 so I never have to have this silly argument with myself. That is if I ever build another small block...

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• Oh, P.S. - The 318 would have beat those cars you've posted. And it was a 3.31 stroke motor, and either .030 or .040 over... . there was a "340" member here running 11.3's and he had that "318 blah blah attitude"... until he found out they both were close in region and the 318 guy "Devon" asked him to put his money where his mouth was... crickets crickets.. LOL Again, it's not 1982 and Reagan's not on the ballet !

fishmens67 said:

68 Camaro 327/glide 10.30's. lol

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fishmens67 said:

68 Camaro 327/glide 10.30's. lol

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fishmens67 said:

He kept losing the bottom end in his 383 stroker and went back to his 327.
He's been running a 327 for over 40 years.

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Dartswinger70 said:

Bullshit,you just said you'd use 360 heads...everyone knows that recipe,why fart around doing all that work buy the 340 and be done...

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RustyRatRod said:

It was Francis. Guys are named Francis. He could have called you Linda. lol

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66fs said:

Sorry, parts are parts. No extra work at all, did it all the time. Some combinations just work. Cubic inches don't matter to me. Not everybody "needs" or "wants" a big inch engine.

1. What do you have?
2. What can you get and for how much?
3. How much to finish it and make it what you want?

Otherwise, for you big motor guys, just get a 400 or a 440, stroke it and be done.
Just for the record, I'm stuck in the 60's for car stuff. I didn't make it to the 80's.

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rmchrgr said:

Bet he's got more than $3K in it. Also bet it's not even a 318 but tells everyone it is. Bet it's also huffing a lot of nitrous. Just like having a roller cam 512" low deck with a 383 pie tin on the air cleaner. "Yeah, it's just a mild buildup with parts I had layin' around, nothin' crazy. Wanna race?" But I digress.

I'd like to see some of these fast 2021-technology small cube motors. Are we still talking about your young man with a 4 door Dart 318 running 8 seconds on a 3 grand budget? Can't keep moving the goal posts. Thought this whole discussion was about low-budget street motors.

There was a guy that used to be on here many years ago out of the northern Midwest somewhere, victory273. Matt I think was his name, had a machine shop. Ran this '66 Valiant in NHRA SS/K with a 273/4 speed combo. That was sick ride, think he did OK with it. Very well thought out and well executed car. He was a machinist so he was able to do his own work but he very likely had $3K in the heads alone.
View attachment 1715776116

There was another NHRA stock '65 Valiant several years back with a 273 from the Pacific Northwest, this red car driven by Angela Bushmaker. They were in J/SA or K/SA. I believe they had it in the 11.70s which is not bad for that class. Another very well scienced out car and not cheap in any way shape or form. I was into this thing, so cool.
View attachment 1715776117

But these "fast small cube" cars are really not what we're talking about, right? NHRA class cars are close to pro level pieces and are generally high dollar efforts, even in the middle classes. I'm just trying to prove I'm not biased against one thing or another and that I've actually taken some time to learn about unusual combos. I'd take a solid lifter 273 over any 318 all day.

Again, my overall disagreement here is with your premise that spending $3K or under on a free 318 will net a better result because the 340 block will eat up too much of the overall budget. That's a non-sequitur argument, I'm not sure you can correlate two such disparate ideas while trying to make a comparison.

Really though, nobody is steering any budding hot rod kids in the wrong direction or giving them bad advice by suggesting they build a 340. I'd even go so far as to say it might even be better to discourage someone from spending any money on something that's marginal at best and ultimately wind up being disappointed in the results.

Maybe you or someone you know had a hot 318 that ran OK and it surprised some people but that's not the norm. Regardless, it seems like you've become stuck on this idea that these little **** motors are somehow more capable now than anyone had ever known before. I don't think so.

Either way, I'm glad I still have that extra 340 and roller block 360 so I never have to have this silly argument with myself. That is if I ever build another small block...

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Dartswinger70 said:

I believe I asked in a post in this thread" tell us how you are going top do it..." ( a 300 hp 318. I am keeping the HP around tweaked stock 340 levels) no one will chime in its a "secret" LOL!

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rmchrgr said:

Agree. Show me how its done and prove it with dyno numbers and/or elapsed times or it didn’t happen. I’ve posted my own ETs which are laughable. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Or, show us all these young men 4 door Dart drivers who are perfectly happy with their $3k 318. Don’t all jump up at once now!

I still don’t get the comparison anyway. If you’re constrained by such a small budget then save up until you can do something worthwhile because once you spend the money its gone. No one is going to give you any return on your investment if you try to sell it down the road. As soon as you get the next itch to make more power you’re back at square one.

I’ve been playing guitar for about 35 years. Early on I learned the value of better equipment. I struggled the first few years because its tough to learn on junk that doesn’t sound good, falls apart, won’t stay in tune etc.

My playing improved dramatically and rapidly when I bought my first real gear. It was like “oh, this is what it’s supposed to sound like!”

I was in my late teens-early 20’s and to that point I had never spent real money on anything because I didn’t have it. I horse traded, scraped and saved until I had the funds to buy good stuff. Totally worth it and still have the same stuff to this day. Ir’s still awesome too, I’ll never get rid of it.

People ask me if they should buy cheap starter guitars for their kids because they don’t want to spend the money on a real instrument. I tell if them if they want the kid to succeed, give them the equipment which will give them the best chances to do so. Seen it many times where the parents think that “junior” guitar or drum kit will spark some interest but three weeks later the kids have lost interest because the equipment sucks. Whatever they saved by being cheap is reflected in a closet full of crap that gets used once or twice and then its garbage.

Same deal with a 318.

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rmchrgr said:

Agree. Show me how its done and prove it with dyno numbers and/or elapsed times or it didn’t happen. I’ve posted my own ETs which are laughable. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Or, show us all these young men 4 door Dart drivers who are perfectly happy with their $3k 318. Don’t all jump up at once now!

I still don’t get the comparison anyway. If you’re constrained by such a small budget then save up until you can do something worthwhile because once you spend the money its gone. No one is going to give you any return on your investment if you try to sell it down the road. As soon as you get the next itch to make more power you’re back at square one.

I’ve been playing guitar for about 35 years. Early on I learned the value of better equipment. I struggled the first few years because its tough to learn on junk that doesn’t sound good, falls apart, won’t stay in tune etc.

My playing improved dramatically and rapidly when I bought my first real gear. It was like “oh, this is what it’s supposed to sound like!”

I was in my late teens-early 20’s and to that point I had never spent real money on anything because I didn’t have it. I horse traded, scraped and saved until I had the funds to buy good stuff. Totally worth it and still have the same stuff to this day. Ir’s still awesome too, I’ll never get rid of it.

People ask me if they should buy cheap starter guitars for their kids because they don’t want to spend the money on a real instrument. I tell if them if they want the kid to succeed, give them the equipment which will give them the best chances to do so. Seen it many times where the parents think that “junior” guitar or drum kit will spark some interest but three weeks later the kids have lost interest because the equipment sucks. Whatever they saved by being cheap is reflected in a closet full of crap that gets used once or twice and then its garbage.

Same deal with a 318.

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318willrun said:

Put the right guy on a cheapo guitar ..... Or a beginner on a expensive guitar.... I bet the cheapo guitar will sound better......

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justinp61 said:

I think you got exactly what you were looking for when you started this thread, 21 pages of .

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Dartswinger70 said:

Good talk (figuratively speaking because we typed actually)

However I think until 318 guys can show a 300 hp 318 for $3 K ...hell ill even give ya a handicap and let ya get away with '275 HP? but in the end Ill say " a well tuned 340 will hit 300 horse..." 318 WR heres your chance to do a long Youtube series put your money where your Posts(mouth ) is...

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318willrun said:

Put the right guy on a cheapo guitar ..... Or a beginner on a expensive guitar.... I bet the cheapo guitar will sound better......

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rmchrgr said:

Just stop advising people to be cheap. There’s no free lunch.

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pittsburghracer said:

318 guys are a breed of their own. Slow but probably nice guys, kinda on the cheap side of the Mopar World but like I said a breed of their own. So be kind to them and donate your unwanted 318 parts.

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318willrun said:

slow as in the head ??? LOL. Yes, I will take all unwanted 318's, complete running motors

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