Throwing my hands up on this ignition!

-
I have a 426 SB and the stock ignition ran fine, then I switched to the chrome box and also ran fine. Currently I run it out of the Edelbrock proflo 4 ECU because I installed they MPFI system. When installing these things besides following the instructions and making sure everything else is okay,m you need to make sure the coil used with the ignition box is compatible, they usually have a list of the appropiate coils to be used with the CD box in the instructions manual.

As an enthusiast Im looking to improve that and did a lot of research a few weeks ago. My choices were ijntellitronix that has a lifetime warranty and intelligent an protection system because the MSD, summit and other brands have only 1 year or 2 max. My second choice was the holley EFI CD ignition box because it specially made for the EFI ECU (sniper) and does not have other functions I wont use.

I ended up buying the later because intellitronix took a few days to answer a question I had on their blue box, but I would have bought the intellitronix otherwise.
 
Want simple hot spark?

Mopar HEI conversion with the high voltage E-Core Coil.

'95 Ford F-150 have a nice 2 post high voltage E-Core coil if you are ordering parts. They run cool and run straight full 12 volts, no ballast resistors bringing down the voltage.

View attachment 1715782476
2 wires in, 2 wires out, done deal.
View attachment 1715782477

View attachment 1715782479

@318willrun has a good youtube video out how to simply do this.

Run nice, quick starts, burns the spark plugs clean. Enjoy !!!

☆☆☆☆☆
GM remote HEI coil works good too.
 
Use a GM ECM and new regulator regulator regulator
37DF3F66-65F7-4758-A829-11C5C5B1BE4C.jpeg
 
Having trouble getting spark out of my ignition. I have an MSD a high voltage coil and a stock electronic distributor. I rewired it the ignition according the MSD instructions, which eliminates the ballast. A first it ran great. I drove it for while then it no spark. I checked the wiring, and couldn't find any issues. I had another coil so I desided to try it and the car fired right up drove the car a bunch for the next couple of days with no issues. Came out today and again no spark! Tried a different coil still no spark? Wiring still looks good, what I'm I missing here?

Don’t know if this helps, but I had the same problem last week on my 68. Spark sometimes and other times no spark. I have the 6al box with a Blaster SS coil. Turns out my battery was at 11 volts and it’s in the trunk. I guess the box needs closer to 12 volts. I put a jumper on the battery and it fired right up. I trickle charged the battery overnight and haven’t had that problem since.
 
Having trouble getting spark out of my ignition. I have an MSD a high voltage coil and a stock electronic distributor. I rewired it the ignition according the MSD instructions, which eliminates the ballast. A first it ran great. I drove it for while then it no spark. I checked the wiring, and couldn't find any issues. I had another coil so I desided to try it and the car fired right up drove the car a bunch for the next couple of days with no issues. Came out today and again no spark! Tried a different coil still no spark? Wiring still looks good, what I'm I missing here?
uf u have no spark u have w bad control box . tye thing on the firewall its too bad we cant exchange phone #"it would be faster if we could talk than back &forth like this
 
Ok taking pishta's suggestions I did bit of checking. The coil read 1.4 ohms across the post and 9.8k ohms internally. Interesting the coil I changed out (an Accel) had the same readings. With the ignition on I read 12v across the coil and as 12v to the source to the Summit box. This tell anyone anything?
12V is 12V right? Wrong! You want to get somewhere, get scientific analysis thinking happening. With the ignition sw in the run position, what is the battery voltage? Then you can compare volts into the ign sw, out to the ballast (if used), + terminal of the coil, etc. Trace the wiring. What is your running batt voltage?
If using a CDI ign the running coil + will be about 450V. Make sure your multimeter can handle that voltage as many automotive meters will not. A normal running points ign can read 100V at the coil + as the points open. This is easiest read as AC volts.It will be read also as Hz.
Are you certain the pickup in the distributor is functioning? It could be breaking down when it gets warm. Years ago I worked on a Ford with their early electronic ign that would run 10 minutes and quit. Go through the diagnostic sequence and find nothing. Next time it quit, start at step 2 of diagnostic. Finally at 3PM it stayed dead and the reluctor showed bad. Previous testing it cooled enough to test good.
 
I can see the benefit of CDI especialy with high compression. The multispark seems to work at lower rpm and a street application could benefit. I see Summit has a multispark set up. Who knows who makes it for them though.
Let me say this. Compression won't make a dam bit of difference where it comes to CDI, multi spark or any other method of getting a spark from the plugs ! When the compression is raised it requires a higher voltage to jump the gap, amps makes no difference. Big coils are mostly for show, with lot of surface for cooling, this is a waste IMO. We can see this by looking at an HEI coil. These buggers put out over 65kv without getting hot. Those huge ACCEL yellow coils only put out around 40kv but make a hotter spark with high amp current and make a lot of heat. I can prove that even under 12:1 comp, if your coil can put out 35kv and everything in the ING system is as it should be, then you have nothing to complain about. Of course if you are using a set of Champion Resistor plugs, you can usually trace it to those. Some people will swear by them, but not this guy. I have spent too many years dealing with pulling bad plugs and installing good plugs, most of them right out of the box and either back to the store or into the trash. There are 2 ways to raise the voltage output from any coil, first is with a CDI (MSD IS CDI)which does not increase the amps but increases the primary voltage to the coil. When using a CDI, you better have a coil that designed to work with CDI or you will fry that coil period ! The primary windings are not designed to withstand that high voltage and WILL short out internally which WILL take out your CDI unit if not for good, temporarily, in the case of having a resetting fuse inside. Instead of sending a nominal 12v in cases no ballast is used which with a CDI the only purpose would be to limit current supply to the box, and this makes very little sense since the current supply must be high to charge the Capacitor rapidly. With a CDI the primary voltage sent to the coil is increased to between 300 to 500 volts at a very low amperage. Opposite scenario is you are using a CDI coil without a CDI and the output will be excessively low and will make the engine run like carp, a very weak spark that will not fire the cylinders under load and or higher compression. The duration of the pulse is in milliseconds. This makes the coil cycle without saturating the magnetic field which does nothing but build heat inside of it. Old point systems only worked when the points opened and the magnetic field collapsed which would produce the high voltage. MSD type systems obviously build up and collapse the magnetic field multiple times in you guessed it milliseconds. The simpler way is to change the coil turn ratio inside. For more insight from someone that has been educated in electronics and had hands on experience with this, the first thing is to make sure you are getting a proper supply voltage to the control box. Then make sure your system is not loosing power or function on account of defective component that is suffering from heat related failure, such as a bad solder connection or even from solid state component problems which are common. It could even be a problem with something simple as a connection in the junction box or ignition switch. Old MOPARs are notorious for these. Now on to crappy running issues, if the primary voltage to the coil is too low you will still get a spark to the plug but under compression it will not be enough to fire the fuel which will make it run like ****, been there seen it and it was my fault for connecting the dual ballast incorrectly. Everything looked right but wasn't. It would pop and backfire and set the carb on fire, it would idle crappy and not rev but as low as I was increasing the throttle with a very rich fuel ratio it would act as if it wanted to run better but not best. The thing I found and had to deal with was the correct phasing of the rotor to the tower terminals, as the coil was firing for each cylinder the rotor was pulling away from the correct terminal causing the coil voltage to require exceeding the capability of the coil output max. This made the engine stutter and stumble under acceleration and power was pathetic. I ran a 383 with 13.5 compression ratio a dual point dist. and a stock electronic dist. with a stock control box parts store replacement and didn't have any problems getting a spark at the right time with enough to keep things happy. I also ran an 18 with a stock point dist. with a Napa aftermarket conversion that was wired into the stock electronic controller used in the mid 70's that used the dual ballast for electronic Vreg Alt and ignition. One can get into issues here also with the isolated field alternators MOPAR used. Which is how having the wrong primary supply to the IGN box happens which is what causes popping and backfires at idle and anywhere else unless the fuel is super rich. If things were happy with the previous motor and not happy with the replacement, take this to the bank, it's not because of higher compression! It because you messed up, or the system is not happy on account of account of a impending fault in the electronics part. I have seen coils that would work fine cold and crap out when hot, I have seen control boxes do same, I have seen wiring problems at connections, junction boxes and even inside harnesses where the wire had been crimped, bad connections inside harness splice blocks, damaged insulation that let moisture inside and the wire had corroded. The list is long. Be assured that any controller box made by any electronics firm has been required to pass a quality control program that includes a battery of tests to insure the circuit is a viable design and will perform under any condition to be found in the environment it was designed to work in. I have opened up stock type MOPAR chrome boxes and blue boxes and orange boxes, I have even been inside MSD controllers to repair the electronics. Once repaired they were resealed water tight, and put back into service. None of this is to say electronics don't fail, because they do! It's up to you to decide if the problem is something you caused or it was caused from a screw up or something else. Another thing I can pretty much count on is there is usually a protection device inside most every circuit that will stop the electricity in case of a short or overload, some automatically reset some don't. Lots of fuses are installed in fuse boxes for this purpose but you all know that already. The MSD has a fusible link inside it that will pop if a mistake is made in installation. At least they did years ago. Some electronic systems have polarity protection that will pop a fuse inside if connected backwards, some just don't work backwards and will be fine when corrected. Other are designed to work either way. Not usually the case with auto stuff though.
 
disagree with the last two posts, back when we went with higher comp. on the hemi, the orange and chrome boxes wouldn`t fire hot enough , popping all the way thru. The comp. is the only thing we changed , beside intake and head gaskets , an msd 6 stopped the popping and banging , it was the only thing changed that time too .

It's a free country. You can disagree. I've seen 9 second cars runnin the Mopar Performance ignition. And winning.
 
disagree with the last two posts, back when we went with higher comp. on the hemi, the orange and chrome boxes wouldn`t fire hot enough , popping all the way thru. The comp. is the only thing we changed , beside intake and head gaskets , an msd 6 stopped the popping and banging , it was the only thing changed that time too .
What exactly do you mean higher compression? Air is an insulator which resists the spark jumping the gap. People running superchargers or turbochargers run smaller plug gaps, as low as 0.015". High compression, superchargers and turbochargers cram more air molecules into the plug gap which inhibits spark travel. It is like those hi tension power transmission lines are suspended on high towers with the wires held far apart to keep the 118,000 volts in the wire.
 
Let me say this. Compression won't make a dam bit of difference where it comes to CDI, multi spark or any other method of getting a spark from the plugs ! When the compression is raised it requires a higher voltage to jump the gap, amps makes no difference. Big coils are mostly for show, with lot of surface for cooling, this is a waste IMO. We can see this by looking at an HEI coil. These buggers put out over 65kv without getting hot. Those huge ACCEL yellow coils only put out around 40kv but make a hotter spark with high amp current and make a lot of heat. I can prove that even under 12:1 comp, if your coil can put out 35kv and everything in the ING system is as it should be, then you have nothing to complain about. Of course if you are using a set of Champion Resistor plugs, you can usually trace it to those. Some people will swear by them, but not this guy. I have spent too many years dealing with pulling bad plugs and installing good plugs, most of them right out of the box and either back to the store or into the trash. There are 2 ways to raise the voltage output from any coil, first is with a CDI (MSD IS CDI)which does not increase the amps but increases the primary voltage to the coil. When using a CDI, you better have a coil that designed to work with CDI or you will fry that coil period ! The primary windings are not designed to withstand that high voltage and WILL short out internally which WILL take out your CDI unit if not for good, temporarily, in the case of having a resetting fuse inside. Instead of sending a nominal 12v in cases no ballast is used which with a CDI the only purpose would be to limit current supply to the box, and this makes very little sense since the current supply must be high to charge the Capacitor rapidly. With a CDI the primary voltage sent to the coil is increased to between 300 to 500 volts at a very low amperage. Opposite scenario is you are using a CDI coil without a CDI and the output will be excessively low and will make the engine run like carp, a very weak spark that will not fire the cylinders under load and or higher compression. The duration of the pulse is in milliseconds. This makes the coil cycle without saturating the magnetic field which does nothing but build heat inside of it. Old point systems only worked when the points opened and the magnetic field collapsed which would produce the high voltage. MSD type systems obviously build up and collapse the magnetic field multiple times in you guessed it milliseconds. The simpler way is to change the coil turn ratio inside. For more insight from someone that has been educated in electronics and had hands on experience with this, the first thing is to make sure you are getting a proper supply voltage to the control box. Then make sure your system is not loosing power or function on account of defective component that is suffering from heat related failure, such as a bad solder connection or even from solid state component problems which are common. It could even be a problem with something simple as a connection in the junction box or ignition switch. Old MOPARs are notorious for these. Now on to crappy running issues, if the primary voltage to the coil is too low you will still get a spark to the plug but under compression it will not be enough to fire the fuel which will make it run like ****, been there seen it and it was my fault for connecting the dual ballast incorrectly. Everything looked right but wasn't. It would pop and backfire and set the carb on fire, it would idle crappy and not rev but as low as I was increasing the throttle with a very rich fuel ratio it would act as if it wanted to run better but not best. The thing I found and had to deal with was the correct phasing of the rotor to the tower terminals, as the coil was firing for each cylinder the rotor was pulling away from the correct terminal causing the coil voltage to require exceeding the capability of the coil output max. This made the engine stutter and stumble under acceleration and power was pathetic. I ran a 383 with 13.5 compression ratio a dual point dist. and a stock electronic dist. with a stock control box parts store replacement and didn't have any problems getting a spark at the right time with enough to keep things happy. I also ran an 18 with a stock point dist. with a Napa aftermarket conversion that was wired into the stock electronic controller used in the mid 70's that used the dual ballast for electronic Vreg Alt and ignition. One can get into issues here also with the isolated field alternators MOPAR used. Which is how having the wrong primary supply to the IGN box happens which is what causes popping and backfires at idle and anywhere else unless the fuel is super rich. If things were happy with the previous motor and not happy with the replacement, take this to the bank, it's not because of higher compression! It because you messed up, or the system is not happy on account of account of a impending fault in the electronics part. I have seen coils that would work fine cold and crap out when hot, I have seen control boxes do same, I have seen wiring problems at connections, junction boxes and even inside harnesses where the wire had been crimped, bad connections inside harness splice blocks, damaged insulation that let moisture inside and the wire had corroded. The list is long. Be assured that any controller box made by any electronics firm has been required to pass a quality control program that includes a battery of tests to insure the circuit is a viable design and will perform under any condition to be found in the environment it was designed to work in. I have opened up stock type MOPAR chrome boxes and blue boxes and orange boxes, I have even been inside MSD controllers to repair the electronics. Once repaired they were resealed water tight, and put back into service. None of this is to say electronics don't fail, because they do! It's up to you to decide if the problem is something you caused or it was caused from a screw up or something else. Another thing I can pretty much count on is there is usually a protection device inside most every circuit that will stop the electricity in case of a short or overload, some automatically reset some don't. Lots of fuses are installed in fuse boxes for this purpose but you all know that already. The MSD has a fusible link inside it that will pop if a mistake is made in installation. At least they did years ago. Some electronic systems have polarity protection that will pop a fuse inside if connected backwards, some just don't work backwards and will be fine when corrected. Other are designed to work either way. Not usually the case with auto stuff though.

Paragraphs. They work.

Also, please stop hangin out with AJ. We caint stand but one.
 
Use a GM ECM and new regulator regulator regulator View attachment 1715786307
I did exactly that on a Ford I was having troubles with the amplifier box, that big POS on the inner fender. I figured out a GM module could be wired to work. Went to a self serve wrecker and took one out. No more problem. Eventually I could not get it to start as the ring gear teeth were chewed in one area. Crankshaft had almost 1/8" end play and the bearings were copper all around. This was a California EEC 2 car in Canada with it turns out 300,000 miles. I think the crankshaft jumping around was confusing the crank position sensor and the module.
 
Let me say this. Compression won't make a dam bit of difference where it comes to CDI, multi spark or any other method of getting a spark from the plugs ! When the compression is raised it requires a higher voltage to jump the gap, amps makes no difference. Big coils are mostly for show, with lot of surface for cooling, this is a waste IMO. We can see this by looking at an HEI coil. These buggers put out over 65kv without getting hot. Those huge ACCEL yellow coils only put out around 40kv but make a hotter spark with high amp current and make a lot of heat. I can prove that even under 12:1 comp, if your coil can put out 35kv and everything in the ING system is as it should be, then you have nothing to complain about. Of course if you are using a set of Champion Resistor plugs, you can usually trace it to those. Some people will swear by them, but not this guy. I have spent too many years dealing with pulling bad plugs and installing good plugs, most of them right out of the box and either back to the store or into the trash. There are 2 ways to raise the voltage output from any coil, first is with a CDI (MSD IS CDI)which does not increase the amps but increases the primary voltage to the coil. When using a CDI, you better have a coil that designed to work with CDI or you will fry that coil period ! The primary windings are not designed to withstand that high voltage and WILL short out internally which WILL take out your CDI unit if not for good, temporarily, in the case of having a resetting fuse inside. Instead of sending a nominal 12v in cases no ballast is used which with a CDI the only purpose would be to limit current supply to the box, and this makes very little sense since the current supply must be high to charge the Capacitor rapidly. With a CDI the primary voltage sent to the coil is increased to between 300 to 500 volts at a very low amperage. Opposite scenario is you are using a CDI coil without a CDI and the output will be excessively low and will make the engine run like carp, a very weak spark that will not fire the cylinders under load and or higher compression. The duration of the pulse is in milliseconds. This makes the coil cycle without saturating the magnetic field which does nothing but build heat inside of it. Old point systems only worked when the points opened and the magnetic field collapsed which would produce the high voltage. MSD type systems obviously build up and collapse the magnetic field multiple times in you guessed it milliseconds. The simpler way is to change the coil turn ratio inside. For more insight from someone that has been educated in electronics and had hands on experience with this, the first thing is to make sure you are getting a proper supply voltage to the control box. Then make sure your system is not loosing power or function on account of defective component that is suffering from heat related failure, such as a bad solder connection or even from solid state component problems which are common. It could even be a problem with something simple as a connection in the junction box or ignition switch. Old MOPARs are notorious for these. Now on to crappy running issues, if the primary voltage to the coil is too low you will still get a spark to the plug but under compression it will not be enough to fire the fuel which will make it run like ****, been there seen it and it was my fault for connecting the dual ballast incorrectly. Everything looked right but wasn't. It would pop and backfire and set the carb on fire, it would idle crappy and not rev but as low as I was increasing the throttle with a very rich fuel ratio it would act as if it wanted to run better but not best. The thing I found and had to deal with was the correct phasing of the rotor to the tower terminals, as the coil was firing for each cylinder the rotor was pulling away from the correct terminal causing the coil voltage to require exceeding the capability of the coil output max. This made the engine stutter and stumble under acceleration and power was pathetic. I ran a 383 with 13.5 compression ratio a dual point dist. and a stock electronic dist. with a stock control box parts store replacement and didn't have any problems getting a spark at the right time with enough to keep things happy. I also ran an 18 with a stock point dist. with a Napa aftermarket conversion that was wired into the stock electronic controller used in the mid 70's that used the dual ballast for electronic Vreg Alt and ignition. One can get into issues here also with the isolated field alternators MOPAR used. Which is how having the wrong primary supply to the IGN box happens which is what causes popping and backfires at idle and anywhere else unless the fuel is super rich. If things were happy with the previous motor and not happy with the replacement, take this to the bank, it's not because of higher compression! It because you messed up, or the system is not happy on account of account of a impending fault in the electronics part. I have seen coils that would work fine cold and crap out when hot, I have seen control boxes do same, I have seen wiring problems at connections, junction boxes and even inside harnesses where the wire had been crimped, bad connections inside harness splice blocks, damaged insulation that let moisture inside and the wire had corroded. The list is long. Be assured that any controller box made by any electronics firm has been required to pass a quality control program that includes a battery of tests to insure the circuit is a viable design and will perform under any condition to be found in the environment it was designed to work in. I have opened up stock type MOPAR chrome boxes and blue boxes and orange boxes, I have even been inside MSD controllers to repair the electronics. Once repaired they were resealed water tight, and put back into service. None of this is to say electronics don't fail, because they do! It's up to you to decide if the problem is something you caused or it was caused from a screw up or something else. Another thing I can pretty much count on is there is usually a protection device inside most every circuit that will stop the electricity in case of a short or overload, some automatically reset some don't. Lots of fuses are installed in fuse boxes for this purpose but you all know that already. The MSD has a fusible link inside it that will pop if a mistake is made in installation. At least they did years ago. Some electronic systems have polarity protection that will pop a fuse inside if connected backwards, some just don't work backwards and will be fine when corrected. Other are designed to work either way. Not usually the case with auto stuff though.


I didn’t read all of this but when you said amps don’t matter you got that wrong. Amps is what gets the job done. Since every non magneto ignition I’ve seen is less than one amp I have to think that’s why they don’t mention it. A small magneto is 3 amps so that’s 300% higher than any other ignition. A 10 amp magneto is not that hard to get. Is a magneto better? I can’t say. I’ve never used one. I know they have some different things that need to be addressed. But amps is what gets the work done.
 
I didn’t read all of this but when you said amps don’t matter you got that wrong. Amps is what gets the job done. Since every non magneto ignition I’ve seen is less than one amp I have to think that’s why they don’t mention it. A small magneto is 3 amps so that’s 300% higher than any other ignition. A 10 amp magneto is not that hard to get. Is a magneto better? I can’t say. I’ve never used one. I know they have some different things that need to be addressed. But amps is what gets the work done.

Right! Amps is the measure of CURRENT FLOW. More amps will jump a wider gap.
 
Right! Amps is the measure of CURRENT FLOW. More amps will jump a wider gap.
NO IT WONT ! JUST TRY TO JUMP A PLUG GAP WITH YOUR CAR BATTERY AND SEE WHAT HAPPENES. IF YOU CLOSE THE GAP TO A POINT WHERE A SPARK OCCURS SEE WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PLUG WHILE READING AN AMP METER! IF YOU DON'T NEED HIGHER VOLTAGE THEN WHY THE HELL DO YOU NEED A COIL IN THE FIRST PLACE? Of course you could try to take a voltage reading with your meter connected to the coil wire and this would prove a point.
 
Stock ECM coils need 9-12 Volts DC and do require a lot of amps to fire. The coil and ballast resistor MUST add up to 1.9-2.0 Ohms or you take a chance of burning the ECM out. A 1.4 Ohm coil and 0.5 Ohm Ballast resistor = 1.9 Ohms.

Multy Spark Discharge (MSD) is not just MSD Corp and when most throw out the letters MSD you tend to think they have a MSD Corp box. I have a Mallory VI AL Multy Spark discharge that is a CDI type. It was made before MSD Corp and Mallory merged.
  • When it is turned on but the dizzy is not triggering it, there is almost ZERO volts at the coil.
  • DO NOT TOUCH the + and - wires when it triggers.
  • Most of these 'MSD' boxes still want a 1.4 ohm coil but also a tight 100 winding inside. E type coils work well most times. The Chrysler 2.2 one is a good one as is the Ford unit someone said above.
  • Do NOT use the low ohm Pertronic's coil on these boxes.
  • The Voltage to the RED and BLACK thick gauge wires for these boxes should be between 11 and 16 Volts DC and around 15 AMP's.
  • The smaller RED and BLACK wires are the ONLY wires to the coil. These will have no voltage at no trigger but 300-500 Volts at triggered but almost NO amps.
  • If you KNOW what you're doing you can change the spark characteristic by changing the Coil's winding ratios. Many Ytube vids on this.
Almost all new ECM's are just a GM HEI type system inside and that big 'Transistor on it is FAKE. It is so easy to mount and wire up a HEI module and it will trigger off a Mopar factory Electronic Dizzy. Run a good E coil and have 65K+ volts at the plug. These MUST be grounded. Some HEI modules may have a bit of timing pull out as the RPM's go up, so do some research.

On my sons 1974 D200 we did relays for the power under the hood including one for the ignition. One key on 'Power Distribution' relay to bypass the wiring going thru the bulkhead connectors.
 
Try to run a ECM coil with 22 gauge wire at 9 volts DC and see how bright the spark is.

Same volts but run 14 gauge wires and now see how much brighter the spark is. This is AMPERAGE at work.

The coil it self will draw as many amps the wire will feed to the point of max saturation and nothing more.The coil takes the 9 Volts DC at 15 amps and converts it to 45,000 volts at almost no Amp's.

In a points type Dizzy this AMPERAGE switching is what burns the points out so you must run a condenser to slow down the spikes.

In a MSD system the box takes AMP's and converts it to higher voltage to do the same work.
 
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I didn’t read all of this but when you said amps don’t matter you got that wrong. Amps is what gets the job done. Since every non magneto ignition I’ve seen is less than one amp I have to think that’s why they don’t mention it. A small magneto is 3 amps so that’s 300% higher than any other ignition. A 10 amp magneto is not that hard to get. Is a magneto better? I can’t say. I’ve never used one. I know they have some different things that need to be addressed. But amps is what gets the work done.
PROVE IT ! So you have a huge cable from the battery to your starter to carry a huge amperage, why do you have such a tiny conductor inside you spark plug cables? Where is your degree in electronics or your electricians license, or you degree in mechanical engineering? I challenge all of you to put up test equipment and see what happens and prove me wrong. What do you know about Watts LAW. AMPs x Volts = watts, test to see what the current draw of a coil and or your ignitions system is while running. DO THE MATH. PUT YOUR car's engine on a diagnostic scope and watch the output from the coil to the plugs. If you DO THE MATH you will prove to yourself that voltage is what jumps the spark gap not amps. The amps from a magneto is the primary current generated in the built in coil that is what makes a mag work in the first place. It has a self contained coil that steps up the voltage from low to High so it doesn't require an outside power source. Ohms law ? Amps divided by volts = resistance. Do some actual online research about coil turns ratio. Study some about loses in conductors, or how heat affect resistance. The only reason top fuel uses a magneto is because Nitro does not vaporize! The only way the fuel can be lit off is for the plugs to heat up red hot at the precise time start the burn. You cannot use glow plugs because that would ignite the fuel while the piston is still on the upstroke. Those mags generate around 50 amps at around 1k volts. Top fuel engines must run lower compression because the cylinders are filled with a near liquid fuel charge so if they had high comp there's no way they could even turn over without locking hydraulically. Again I challenge to be proven wrong about whether the voltage is lighting the spark or amperage in a gasoline engine. If the voltage isn't the critical issue than why are super high output voltage coils sold for racing? Do you homework and find out why such a low amperage can kill you when the voltage is high enough to push through the resistance of your body. It only take around 50 volts at around 0.2 amps to stop a heart beat if the power is applied continuously. Again, look at a diagnostic scope that will tell you how many volts it takes to jump the spark gap from your rotor to your spark plug wire terminals and how many volts are lost in the resistance of you wire then how many volts are required to jump the gap of your plugs under compression! Go ask and old time engine tuner that has spent his life time doing this like I have and see if he sides with you or not. Now if the resistance of your wires is a constant which it is, and the required voltage must increase because of compression which has already been established here, than by mathematical calculation the amps will increase. But that doesn't mean the amps are what does the work because if the coil cannot produce the higher voltage than there will be no spark and if there is no spark then there is no amperage because a close circuit pulls voltage down and the amps go up in which case the coil cannot produce those amps because the secondary windings are too small to carry that high current, which why coils are not made to deliver high amperage to the plugs, they deliver high voltage. Another reason there is such thick insulation on those tiny conductor spark plug wire, to keep that high voltage from arcing to the engine.
 
Having trouble getting spark out of my ignition. I have an MSD a high voltage coil and a stock electronic distributor. I rewired it the ignition according the MSD instructions, which eliminates the ballast. A first it ran great. I drove it for while then it no spark. I checked the wiring, and couldn't find any issues. I had another coil so I desided to try it and the car fired right up drove the car a bunch for the next couple of days with no issues. Came out today and again no spark! Tried a different coil still no spark? Wiring still looks good, what I'm I missing here?
Had a similar problem with my MSD on my 69 dart. Found out that my battery was going bad. Changed battery problem solved. That is just my 2 bits worth. I am by no means have the knowledge of many members that have posted on the topic, just my own experience.
 
Try to run a ECM coil with 22 gauge wire at 9 volts DC and see how bright the spark is.

Same volts but run 14 gauge wires and now see how much brighter the spark is. This is AMPERAGE at work.

The coil it self will draw as many amps the wire will feed to the point of max saturation and nothing more.

In a points type Dizzy this AMPERAGE switching is what burns the points out so you must run a condenser to slow down the spikes.

In a MSD system the box takes AMP's and converts it to higher voltage to do the same work.
Does anyone know the actual difference between PRIMARY CURRENT AND SECONDARY CURRENT? READ about the LAWS OF ELECTRICAL properties ! HIGH voltage equals low amperage, it works the same no matter what you are working with, be it AC when you switch the connections to you air compressor that either runs on 120 or 240, it's stamped right on the metal tag on the motor, for 240vac the amperage is half of what it is for 120 ! LOOK IT UP IN the NEC manual. Hell look it up on the internet since you're already here. Get a real education from someone that knows what the hell they are talking about or do think your smarter than they are? As for me, I work on vehicles for a living, been doing it for almost 50 years, using scopes and solving problems with ECM systems everyday. I have also possessed an electricians license, spent time in college studying electronics including computers, designed circuits for control systems and even work on huge commercial wind turbines. I've been a fleet maint super. for a national trucking company. Back to the topic of amps and volts, yep, it takes amps on the primary side to produce high voltage on the secondary side. You don't get something for nothing. Get the facts straight first.
 
PROVE IT ! So you have a huge cable from the battery to your starter to carry a huge amperage, why do you have such a tiny conductor inside you spark plug cables? Where is your degree in electronics or your electricians license, or you degree in mechanical engineering? I challenge all of you to put up test equipment and see what happens and prove me wrong. What do you know about Watts LAW. AMPs x Volts = watts, test to see what the current draw of a coil and or your ignitions system is while running. DO THE MATH. PUT YOUR car's engine on a diagnostic scope and watch the output from the coil to the plugs. If you DO THE MATH you will prove to yourself that voltage is what jumps the spark gap not amps. The amps from a magneto is the primary current generated in the built in coil that is what makes a mag work in the first place. It has a self contained coil that steps up the voltage from low to High so it doesn't require an outside power source. Ohms law ? Amps divided by volts = resistance. Do some actual online research about coil turns ratio. Study some about loses in conductors, or how heat affect resistance. The only reason top fuel uses a magneto is because Nitro does not vaporize! The only way the fuel can be lit off is for the plugs to heat up red hot at the precise time start the burn. You cannot use glow plugs because that would ignite the fuel while the piston is still on the upstroke. Those mags generate around 50 amps at around 1k volts. Top fuel engines must run lower compression because the cylinders are filled with a near liquid fuel charge so if they had high comp there's no way they could even turn over without locking hydraulically. Again I challenge to be proven wrong about whether the voltage is lighting the spark or amperage in a gasoline engine. If the voltage isn't the critical issue than why are super high output voltage coils sold for racing? Do you homework and find out why such a low amperage can kill you when the voltage is high enough to push through the resistance of your body. It only take around 50 volts at around 0.2 amps to stop a heart beat if the power is applied continuously. Again, look at a diagnostic scope that will tell you how many volts it takes to jump the spark gap from your rotor to your spark plug wire terminals and how many volts are lost in the resistance of you wire then how many volts are required to jump the gap of your plugs under compression! Go ask and old time engine tuner that has spent his life time doing this like I have and see if he sides with you or not. Now if the resistance of your wires is a constant which it is, and the required voltage must increase because of compression which has already been established here, than by mathematical calculation the amps will increase. But that doesn't mean the amps are what does the work because if the coil cannot produce the higher voltage than there will be no spark and if there is no spark then there is no amperage because a close circuit pulls voltage down and the amps go up in which case the coil cannot produce those amps because the secondary windings are too small to carry that high current, which why coils are not made to deliver high amperage to the plugs, they deliver high voltage. Another reason there is such thick insulation on those tiny conductor spark plug wire, to keep that high voltage from arcing to the engine.


I can tell from this antic post nothing I can say will change your mind. So I won’t bother. Amps is what does the work. Simple as that. You can argue all you want. In fact, the amp measurement has been so beguiled by MSD even that is hard to deal with. A 20 amp MSD magneto produces the same current as a Mallory 5 amp magneto. It’s the way the current is measured. You can call the guy who owns Fuel Injection Engineering and talk to him. He bought out the Mallory magneto shop. He works on both. Ask him about amps.
 
What exactly do you mean higher compression? Air is an insulator which resists the spark jumping the gap. People running superchargers or turbochargers run smaller plug gaps, as low as 0.015". High compression, superchargers and turbochargers cram more air molecules into the plug gap which inhibits spark travel. It is like those hi tension power transmission lines are suspended on high towers with the wires held far apart to keep the 118,000 volts in the wire.
118k volts, try 230 k or more, there are lines in places that are running close to 1 mill volts. Are those lines relying on high amps to do the work? I don't think so, the higher the voltage the less line loss there is over long distances.
 
Jacobs ignitions.....measured the resistance at the plugs to calculate something...recent Ford products also measure plug feedback for turbo applications. One thing for sure: arc your wrench from battery 12V to ground, it will spark big time! Not so much with a 12V lantern battery. Amps......True. when dealing with a finite amount of volts or amps, its like f-stop and shutter speed in a camera: one goes up, the other goes down for a properly exposed picture...or whatever your electrical needs requires.
 
I can tell from this antic post nothing I can say will change your mind. So I won’t bother. Amps is what does the work. Simple as that. You can argue all you want. In fact, the amp measurement has been so beguiled by MSD even that is hard to deal with. A 20 amp MSD magneto produces the same current as a Mallory 5 amp magneto. It’s the way the current is measured. You can call the guy who owns Fuel Injection Engineering and talk to him. He bought out the Mallory magneto shop. He works on both. Ask him about amps.
How about you ask him if he is considering primary side amps or secondary side amps at the output. There is absolutely NO one that can or will argue the laws of electrical properties, they don't change for anyone or any reason. They work the same in any part of the world or universe. Not even NASA will attempt to go around them.
 
How about you ask him if he is considering primary side amps or secondary side amps at the output. There is absolutely NO one that can or will argue the laws of electrical properties, they don't change for anyone or any reason. They work the same in any part of the world or universe. Not even NASA will attempt to go around them.


I don’t need to ask him anything. I already know the answer. Amps wins. Every time. And the nonsense you posted about fuel engines is also wrong.
 
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