440 build for a tow rig/"muscle" truck?

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As a good friend of mine calls um.....with "loonamum" heads, it'd probably be fine even at sea level. Expecially considering quench.
Completely agree sir. Probably run on 87 at altitude and 91 at sea level. I know that’s how I’d set it up.
 
a side note on alum heads,need to use commetic head gaskets and the thermal efficiency of the heads is like loosing 2 points of compression, just something to research,

Thankfully neither of those are necessarily true from what I've found recently. 440Source sells single-layer composite head gaskets with a Teflon coating for use with their aluminum heads (not multi-layer steel type although they are some of the best, I have Cometics in the 360 in my Duster). And on the Engine Masters show they proved the "aluminum heads compression loss" to be a myth; took a built BBC and dyno'd it with iron heads, then swapped on a set of aluminum heads with the exact same specs, hardware, compression ratio and changing no other parts... the aluminums actually made more power across the board than the irons with everything else equal. Aluminum heads are more detonation resistant because the fast heat transfer doesn't let the surface get as hot as iron and the finish is usually a lot smoother which also reduces hot-spots for preignition. I think over the years people just associated that with a loss of thermal efficiency which simply isn't true; above about 2000 RPM the mixture is burned and exhausted too fast for any real heat transfer to occur on a level that would affect power.

I'll have to do a bit more math but looking on the UEM/KB site they now sell 3 different hyper pistons; one zero-deck flat top and then two flat-tops with reduced compression height but a quench pad that raises up from the piston head. According to their approximate compression chart with 80cc heads they would put me around 9.7:1 which would be right around what I want. If this was going in a car or street-rod type truck I'd be fine going as high as 11:1 but thinking about how this engine will be pulling 10,000+ lbs (truck+trailer combined) up steep hills I'm afraid the thermal loading will be too high and it will eventually either overheat or start to ping which is the LAST thing you want happening pulling up a steep grade on the freeway. Maybe aside from losing fuel supply lol, it can be nerve-wracking especially in heavy traffic.
 
If you’re at 5000 feet above sea level or more all the time why not build it to 10.5:1 with quench and run it there?? If you have no plans on driving it below 5000 feet it’ll be fine.
10.5 with quench would be fine at sea level with the right cam and proper tune.
 
As a good friend of mine calls um.....with "loonamum" heads, it'd probably be fine even at sea level. Expecially considering quench.
quench should always be considered when building a higher compression street motor.
 
10.5 with quench would be fine at sea level with the right cam and proper tune.
In a light car sure. But I would be hesitant to run it in a 4800 pound truck towing a 10,000 pound trailer at that compression at sea level, and you would have to slow the timing curve way down.
 
In a light car sure. But I would be hesitant to run it in a 4800 pound truck towing a 10,000 pound trailer at that compression at sea level, and you would have to slow the timing curve way down.

It's hard to say I'll never drive this truck or tow something down closer to sea level so I'm thinking in a similar way. Heck I might end up moving to a different state in a year or two so I'm not trying to take that risk on having MAXIMUM compression possible. I just want something better than the stock 7.8:1.

I still need to run the numbers but here's the type of piston I was talking about: KB Automotive Hyper - Chrysler/Dodge 440 / 7.2 - KB184
 
Man I wish I had the specs for the .030 over 440 I built for my dads 1976 motorhome. .030 over pistons, RV cam (can’t remember specs) reworked rods, polished crank, and a set of 906 heads I ported for him. Man that thing was a bear and he loved it.
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a side note on alum heads,need to use commetic head gaskets and the thermal efficiency of the heads is like loosing 2 points of compression, just something to research,
440 source doesn't recommend cometic, most factory aluminum heads don't use a MLS gasket, yes some do & they may be better but not needed . Heck even trickflow says just use a felpro.
 
Good thing I looked up the KB catalog, those step-head pistons are designed for open-chamber heads, quench pad protrudes above the deck (by quite a bit) at TDC. So looks like I'm stuck going with traditional flat-tops.

With KBs I'd be around 10.5:1 but Speed Pro L-2355F would be closer to 10.0:1 although that largely depends on how far above spec the block decks are. I guess now that I have an idea what my options are next step is to get a core engine. No shortage of those around here, there is one particularly nice-looking 440 with 67k miles only about 30-40 minutes from me but it's in an RV and the seller expects the buyer to either pull the engine themselves or take the whole vehicle... from the pics it looks to be B-van based and a PITA to get out, not sure if it's worth the trouble for $2k. Then there's a disassembled but seemingly "virgin" 440 out of a 1973 New Yorker for $750 but the block looks like it's been sitting for many years and will need a trip to the machine shop. Also see a "rebuilt" 1976 truck engine for $900, it's on a stand so probably can't see it run but I do have a bore-scope I could bring and take a peek inside. Lastly there's a 'Mopar hoarder' with a ton of stuff for sale including transmissions and two 1969 440 blocks, one "with motor home stuff"(??) for $1k and another "fully machined" for $2500. I sent messages to all the sellers for more info, probably go to pick one up the weekend of Oct. 9-10 after I get my next paycheck lol. And they're all within about an hour driving distance so I'll probably go check some out before deciding in the meantime.
 
Found another potential option for pistons, Speed Pro L-2266F... anyone have experience with these? Looks like they've been around for a while, used to be branded as TRWs if I understand correctly? Are they still heavy like the L-2355F? They sure look like it lol.

Got a lead on a BB 727 for $200, gonna go check it out tomorrow and if it looks good I'll bring it on home.
 
Nothing could be as heavy as factory cast pistons with the steel strut...
If I recall correctly, a 440 factory piston & pin weighed about 1100 grams.
 
In a light car sure. But I would be hesitant to run it in a 4800 pound truck towing a 10,000 pound trailer at that compression at sea level, and you would have to slow the timing curve way down.
I agree. In a tow rig, I would keep static compression at a blueprinted 8.5 max.
 
Found another potential option for pistons, Speed Pro L-2266F... anyone have experience with these? Looks like they've been around for a while, used to be branded as TRWs if I understand correctly? Are they still heavy like the L-2355F? They sure look like it lol.

Got a lead on a BB 727 for $200, gonna go check it out tomorrow and if it looks good I'll bring it on home.
Tow rig. Are you gonna be slingin it to 6000 RPM? Weight really is a moot point on what you're doing. I'd get them if you got a good deal. It really won't make much difference.
 
Tow rig. Are you gonna be slingin it to 6000 RPM? Weight really is a moot point on what you're doing. I'd get them if you got a good deal. It really won't make much difference.

Nope, probably max out around 5500 if that. I know it matters more for higher RPM but it's the best place to reduce weight, lighter pistons are always better for gas engines at least. Heard about heavy pistons being better for Roots-blown applications but not entirely sure if I believe that's still true with modern tech and doesn't apply to my build anyway. But yeah overall I'm not too worried about it.

Funny thing a set of those pistons .030"-over is around $450 but standard bore is around $700, not sure what that's about but I really hope whatever core engine I find is bored .030" lol. All the cores I'm looking at are either low-mileage and still running or recently rebuilt so I can minimize the amount of machining that'll need to be done. Preferably just a light hone (torque plates???), mayybe mill the decks depending on where they are and most likely balance the rotating assembly just so I sleep better at night lol. Not trying to pay for boring if it's not needed, nor square-decking which is why I'm leaning away from a tight-quench build. My understanding/experience is the factory block machining tolerances SUCK and the decks tend to be all over the place, also heard the factory balancing leaves quite a bit to be desired. Trying to be realistic with my goals though and not go hog-wild with blueprinting.
 
Nope, probably max out around 5500 if that. I know it matters more for higher RPM but it's the best place to reduce weight, lighter pistons are always better for gas engines at least. Heard about heavy pistons being better for Roots-blown applications but not entirely sure if I believe that's still true with modern tech and doesn't apply to my build anyway. But yeah overall I'm not too worried about it.

Funny thing a set of those pistons .030"-over is around $450 but standard bore is around $700, not sure what that's about but I really hope whatever core engine I find is bored .030" lol. All the cores I'm looking at are either low-mileage and still running or recently rebuilt so I can minimize the amount of machining that'll need to be done. Preferably just a light hone (torque plates???), mayybe mill the decks depending on where they are and most likely balance the rotating assembly just so I sleep better at night lol. Not trying to pay for boring if it's not needed, nor square-decking which is why I'm leaning away from a tight-quench build. My understanding/experience is the factory block machining tolerances SUCK and the decks tend to be all over the place, also heard the factory balancing leaves quite a bit to be desired. Trying to be realistic with my goals though and not go hog-wild with blueprinting.
You can always run a hyper piston to get weight good, BUT you'll need to run the nitrous factor regarding the ring gaps for extra insurance from the extra heat of towing and you'll be fine. I'd also run low tension rings.
 
Alright well sadly the rebuilt 1976 truck 440 got sold, tomorrow I'm going to take a look at the disassembled core from a '73 New Yorker. Block looks like it'll likely need boring from the pics but the crank is forged at least, also the journals were wrapped in oily rags and mic'd before being stored so that's a plus, may end up just needing a polish if I'm lucky.
 
Found another potential option for pistons, Speed Pro L-2266F... anyone have experience with these? Looks like they've been around for a while, used to be branded as TRWs if I understand correctly? Are they still heavy like the L-2355F? They sure look like it lol.

Got a lead on a BB 727 for $200, gonna go check it out tomorrow and if it looks good I'll bring it on home.
They are very heavy and will probably be about .075 below the deck. The ones I had were.
 
OK making progress, went and picked up that 440 core out of a '73 New Yorker today for $600. Came with a whole pile of stuff, basically everything from carb to oil pan. Unfortunately all the parts were sitting on shelves in a garage for the past 30 years so some of them aren't in great shape, namely the connecting rods... for some reason the guy removed all the rod caps, wrapped them in paper towels and put them in a box near the ground so the caps are super rusty. Rods themselves look OK but one was missing for some reason and the guy had a replacement which I got but I'm leery to try to use them; probably need to be reconditioned so I might as well get new ones. Any recommendations on "entry-level" aftermarket connecting rods for 440s? I know Eagle and SCAT are the two I hear the most about...

Fortunately the crank is in much better shape, the journals were wrapped in oily rags so they're still pretty clean but I haven't gone over the whole thing in detail yet. The block is also pretty good, definitely needs an overbore as all the cylinders have noticeable ridge at the top and according to the seller the car was basically driven into the ground so it's probably got well over 100k miles on it. And thankfully again the main caps were stored away from moisture so they're in perfect shape, no rust whatsoever. The seller had a bore gauge I used with my dial calipers and measuring twice the cylinders came out at 4.320" which confirms it's a virgin block.

Heads look OK but I need to pull some valves to make sure. The seller's dad was the one who pulled and disassembled the engine and I guess he thought he was doing some trick stuff, he sanded/polished all the combustion chambers which actually looks like a decent job and also very lightly cleaned up the ports but that part is so minor he may as well not have bothered. I won't be using them regardless but the better shape they're in the easier they'll be to sell. Also came with a spread-bore Holley which is obviously not original but in good shape, hopefully I can sell that for more than scrap price as well. Might try to sell the factory iron intake but if it doesn't sell fast I'll probably scrap that along with the exhaust manifolds, cam, lifters, timing set, valve covers, oil pan, rods, pistons, pushrods and a bunch of other random bits I either have no use for or are rusted to sh*t. I'm really limited on space and don't like hoarding stuff that doesn't have immediate value.

I can post some pics of the parts up later, I just spent the last 4 hours or so reorganizing my garage and moving stuff down to the basement to make room for all these parts lol.
 
The 73 should be a great block . It has the reinforced webbing between the freeze plugs . Just have the main caps bead blasted or vapor blasted the resized . And the stock intake manifold is great for tow applications... just check for cracks on plenum floor .
Can't wait for the results of uour build ! Been fantasizing about building up the 440 in my 78 C-Class . Possibly stroking it . The trick is building torque without building heat .
 
Crank looks really good, I'll still be sending it to a shop to get checked out but I bet it doesn't need much... the flash of the camera intensifies the imperfections btw the journals are all smooth to the touch

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440 source has nice replacement rods for about $250.00. Kim

Excellent, I did a quick search on Summit last night and all the Eagle and SCAT rod kits are now in the $550 range, I don't remember them being that expensive? Also see there are a few stockers for sale on here in the classifieds so that's an option as well. I'd imagine stock rods would work fine for my application...?
 
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