They would but it would cost u more to rebuild them than buying the source rods. My buddy has used a few sets. He likes them. Kim
440 build for a tow rig/"muscle" truck?
- Thread starter MopaR&D
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Bighead440
Well-Known Member
Good call Rob! I also have used the Crane 272HMV (216/228*@.050", .454/.480", 112*LSA) and the Lunati "Factory Replacement" HP cam (similar lift/duration/LSA), and they offer more power and a pretty good idle over the stock HP cam. I like the Action+ over the Performer on RBs, B's are a toss up. Hedman truck headers and you're in bizness!
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
They sure look nice and the 12-pt cap bolts are a nice addition, I put them on my parts list.
@Bighead440 does the Action+ intake give better performance over the Performer on RBs in your experience? Performer is basically just an aluminum copy of the factory intake manifold anyway. And would an intake like that give noticeably more off-idle grunt than a high-rise dual plane like Performer RPM? I am using aluminum Stealth heads after all so I don't want to put on an intake that would restrict the flow into those better ports.
Bighead440
Well-Known Member
The RPM Edelbrock seems to be the champ, followed by the CH4B then the Weiand and last the Performer. I had the Performer on a heavy station wagon with a 440 before the RPM came out and never got to try the Weiand but the RPM made a huge difference when available. I just recently got a CH4B, but my experience with the DP4B (low deck 383/400) tells me it's bound to be a good choice. Even the Street Dominator Holley intake is a gooid choice, as RRR suggested, but it is a single plane.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
Kinda random question, browsing the 440Source site I found that they sell a special long drill bit for enlarging the oil passages between the oil galley and main bearings; since the block is already bare and will need to be machined and cleaned should I go ahead and do that? And what about the mods to the oil pickup passages at the front of the block like I see in my MP Engines book?
Also in the parts I got with the engine there is what seems to be a high-volume oil pump that was never installed (just judging by the fact there is a "HV" cast into it). I know with small blocks it's generally not needed unless the engine is modified to need more oil flow and requires the stronger drive shaft, and should be used with a deeper-sump oil pan which I won't be doing, I intend to just use a factory truck oil pan and pickup probably with a windage tray. Should I use it if it checks out good or buy a standard-volume replacement?
Also in the parts I got with the engine there is what seems to be a high-volume oil pump that was never installed (just judging by the fact there is a "HV" cast into it). I know with small blocks it's generally not needed unless the engine is modified to need more oil flow and requires the stronger drive shaft, and should be used with a deeper-sump oil pan which I won't be doing, I intend to just use a factory truck oil pan and pickup probably with a windage tray. Should I use it if it checks out good or buy a standard-volume replacement?
I am at a loss as to why you think you need high RPM oiling mods on a tow truck engine. Your project, your money.
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
HV oil pumps also make better pressure at a lower rpm.
I'd use one in a tow rig, myself. You're not likely to be running high revs where a HV pump is going to be taxing the bypass or anything else strange. It'll build pressure sooner and keep pressure high at cruise revs.
Likewise, modifying the oil passages can allow greater oil flow and thus better cooling of components (especially pistons and seals) which may be a benefit in a tow rig. Those long mild grades can cause an awful lot of heat soak... I'd probably also look at a higher capacity oil pan - mostly for heat regulation as well.
I'd use one in a tow rig, myself. You're not likely to be running high revs where a HV pump is going to be taxing the bypass or anything else strange. It'll build pressure sooner and keep pressure high at cruise revs.
Likewise, modifying the oil passages can allow greater oil flow and thus better cooling of components (especially pistons and seals) which may be a benefit in a tow rig. Those long mild grades can cause an awful lot of heat soak... I'd probably also look at a higher capacity oil pan - mostly for heat regulation as well.
I wasn't about the pump. I agree with the HV pump, but why the need for the oiling mods drilling out passages in an otherwise low RPM engine? That's what I don't understand. ....but again, not my circus, not my monkeys.
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
Doesn't hurt anything... And it might help ensure adequate oil supply to help reduce oil temps in low flow areas. Not sure where they'd be in a BB, but I know OEM passages were designed more for budget and daily driving than they were for HD use.
It's also worth noting that we measure oil pressure at one spot, it can vary wildly in other places due to clearance sizes. Bugger feeds ensure the pressure stays up until it can't anymore. Which should result in better longevity. Maybe. But the worst and only drawback is really the time spent to do the drilling and modding. So why not?
I think at high revs the mods become a requirement, whereas at lower revs they might help some, especially with sustained load. But also maybe not 100% required.
Go for it then.
R&D,
If you want to improve the oil system on a BB, work on the inlet side of the pump. The outlet side will then have more idle pressure because you have made the pump more efficient.
The inlet side has a long, small diam pick up with tight corners inside the block for the oil to negotiate it's way into the pump inlet. Fit a larger Hemi pick up & enlarge the two inlet holes in the block, as per the MP bulletins. Where the pump body bolts to the block, remove/smooth/radius any overhanging bits on both the inlet & outlet sides of the pump.
If you want to improve the oil system on a BB, work on the inlet side of the pump. The outlet side will then have more idle pressure because you have made the pump more efficient.
The inlet side has a long, small diam pick up with tight corners inside the block for the oil to negotiate it's way into the pump inlet. Fit a larger Hemi pick up & enlarge the two inlet holes in the block, as per the MP bulletins. Where the pump body bolts to the block, remove/smooth/radius any overhanging bits on both the inlet & outlet sides of the pump.
I agree with the oiling mods .
Piston and exhaust port coating for heat would also help it survive .
This may sound like overkill to many of you but out here in the we encounter long steep grades that are miles long .
That is why turbos wont cut it on this kind of application .
Piston and exhaust port coating for heat would also help it survive .
This may sound like overkill to many of you but out here in the we encounter long steep grades that are miles long .
That is why turbos wont cut it on this kind of application .
Bighead440
Well-Known Member
Back around 1989 I built a 440 from a '75 Imperial for my (formerly 318) 1970 D200 Camper Special. The truck had 3.54 gears and tall 16.5" tires, so I figured normal car gearing around 2.94:1 as far as my cam choice. The 440 had smooth bores but signs of detonation (eroded piston tops and worn upper rod bearings), so I had a set of NOS 8:1 flat tops and a NOS cast crankshaft, and I used them with standard rings and bearings (full groove mains) and a HV oil pump. I had a set of 906s fitted with hardened seats and stock size stainless valves, with Street Hemi springs. For camshaft I went with the Direct Connnection 272/.455"/112LSA cam, stock TQ iron intake with the EGR blocked and floor jets milled flat, and a '72 Thermoquad. For converter, I used a 12" (narrow ring gear) factory unit for efficient cruising and low heat. It worked fantastic and I used it for some heavy towing and it was also my daily for many years. Around 1995 the Dana broke a pinion gear (punched it clean through the heavy rear cover), so I parked it until I could find a replacement rear end. The cheapest one I could find was a 4.10 gear, so I knew my gas mileage would suffer but the tow power would increase. WRONG on both counts! Same basic MPG and no noticeable breakaway acceleration loaded. 440s are just that tough and impervious!
^ I love that cam in a mild street 440.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
I don't 'think' I do, I don't know... that's why I'm asking if it's worth it to do now since it's all apart and would be easy to take care of. That long drill bit is less than $20 off 440Source and I already have the HV pump which is the ONLY reason the thought even crossed my mind... Also something else to consider, I have a feeling this won't be the only life this 440 will live. Meaning my ultimate long-term goal for the truck is to swap a Cummins diesel in it, has been since I got the truck; I know I don't need one but I've always wanted one. Diesels are just cool and different. SO if/when that time comes, the 440 will be taken out and likely put into a car with a different cam and may very well be revved to higher RPMs. I don't know for sure but it would be convenient to already have oiling mods done if that ever becomes the case.
I think I'll drill the main bearing supply passages and clean up the inlet passages to the pump but still run a standard-volume pump. I like the idea of increasing oil flow by reducing restrictions in the system rather than bolting on a bigger pump. Nice thing being a BBM after all is the pump is external so I can swap it out later if I want.
Hay, knock it out. It'll have oil like a race motor at 3000 RPM towing something down the road. One thing's for sure. It won't hurt anything.
overkill as is the HV pump.
Standard pump with high pressure spring is all that's needed.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
That's my thinking too. What is typical max oil pressure with a stock pump and spring, around 55-65 psi like a small block?
Another question, this is one of those things the seller's dad did I mentioned earlier I feel like wasn't necessary... are these still useable?
I would agrree but since this build will most likely have mid 200# spring pressures and sub 4000 rpm revs I doubt it will matter .
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
I'll be using the springs that come installed on the 440Source Stealth heads so I think the pressures will be a bit higher than that? Also with the extra head flow and modernized 440HP/Road Runner cam I imagine it should make power to at least 5000 RPM although I'll only rev it that high when messing around unloaded. Heck I'd probably make a few passes down the drag strip at Bandimere just for ***** and giggles. If the grooves will be more of a liability than a benefit I'll just post a Wanted ad for some stock unmodified BB rocker shafts. And anyway, I thought the grooves were more of a benefit when running factory-style iron adjustable rocker arms since they have a more uniform contact area with the shafts?
Also @mbaird I'm not sure if these are heavy duty rockers or not, seller didn't mention anything about them. I feel like there was a Mopar Action article years ago too where they measured factory rockers vs. HD replacements and they actually spec'd out the same as far as metal thickness in the high-stress areas?
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