Stroked motor oil levels?

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Kent mosby

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I might be thinking too hard. How is the correct oil level determined by manufacturers? If you have a motor with a 3.750 in. stroke (stock) vs 4.250 in. stroke it seems that the oil level would need to be different. I have searched but cannot find any info except to run a larger oil pan and a windage tray. Since I have my pan out now and will be installing a windage tray tomorrow, I wanted to measure the proper level on my aftermarket dipstick. Measure twice....

Is the correct level relative to the stroke of the crankshaft, the crankshaft weights, the windage tray, the bottom to the block? There must be some guidelines beside just the dipstick. Differing setups should be different, shouldn't they?

Street car that will see some track time next year. 7 QT capacity pan with pickup just off the floor of the pan.
 
If you have the stock dipstick use that as a guide, your measuring from the top down not bottom up. The motor doesn't care how deep or wide the oil pan is. Then use however much oil it takes to get to the dipstick mark.
 
Make sure to test fit the windage tray. The stroker cranks aren't that much bigger but there might be a interference issue there. Turn the cranl a few full revolutions to make sure it doesn't hit the tray.
 
69FBCuda said:
If you have the stock dipstick use that as a guide, your measuring from the top down not bottom up. The motor doesn't care how deep or wide the oil pan is. Then use however much oil it takes to get to the dipstick mark.
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I don't have a stock dipstick to compare to. The real question is??? Are stroker motors different from stock motors for oil levels?? Since their geometry is different, it should be. Like I mentioned, I may be overthinking this.
 
toolmanmike said:
Make sure to test fit the windage tray. The stroker cranks aren't that much bigger but there might be a interference issue there. Turn the cranl a few full revolutions to make sure it doesn't hit the tray.
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I will double check the new windage tray for clearance. Is oil level relative to the tray? Should it be below or above the tray?
 
Kent mosby said:
I don't have a stock dipstick to compare to. The real question is??? Are stroker motors different from stock motors for oil levels?? Since their geometry is different, it should be. Like I mentioned, I may be overthinking this.
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If you still have the stock oil pan put 4-5 quarts(allowing for filter) of liquid in it mark the level and measure down to and mark, that would be your dipstick mark.. You don't want the crank lobes to hit the oil that would cause a washing machine effect. If the windage tray is fairly close to the lobes I would think slightly below that is good. The windage tray keep the splash to a minimum and off the lobes.
 
The full level on the engine is the same whether you have a deep pan or not. You don't want the crank throws down in the oil but, when the engine is running there's not a lot of oil sitting in the sump.
 
FWIW, @AndyF and Chuck Senatore both question the use of louvred windage trays with a deep racing oil pan. Any thoughts on that? Both of them wrote books on Big Block Mopar engines. This is making me think twice on whether I should use it?????
 
on a 40x based 360, your rods will be .20x lower in the pan...counterweights dont change. With a high volume pumnp your probably already lower than designed at operating speed as there is more oil up in the motor. Id not worry about it, but I would make sure your LA rod nuts clear the edge of the bores (they wont) and your windage tray can take the increased stroke..it should.
 
Kent mosby said:
FWIW, @AndyF and Chuck Senatore both question the use of louvred windage trays with a deep racing oil pan. Any thoughts on that? Both of them wrote books on Big Block Mopar engines. This is making me think twice on whether I should use it?????
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I would like to see a dyno session without one, with one, and with a crank scraper. If you're concerned the level may be too high you could use a 7 quart pan with 6 quarts in it. That would drop the level a small amount so it wouldn't run into the crank. LOL
 
The amount of oil in the pan is determined by the depth of the sump and how well the pan controls oil. What happens on the dyno regarding oil level is pretty much useless. Less oil in the pan almost always shows an increase in power but in the car oil pressure will start moving around. You have to test oil level in the car at the track.
 
I think on a street car the biggest issue would be front to back/back to front slosh from hard acceleration and/or slamming the brakes a windage tray would cut down on some of that.
 
run it, pull it over and rev it a few times. kill it and check the oil ASAP. Youll notice your 'low' thats even more oil than the running motor sees. as long as the pickup is covered 100% of the operating range time, your good.
 
pishta said:
run it, pull it over and rev it a few times. kill it and check the oil ASAP. Youll notice your 'low' thats even more oil than the running motor sees. as long as the pickup is covered 100% of the operating range time, your good.
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Exactly. I bet there's only a couple quarts in the sump at any given time. If that.
 
I remember seeing an article about how power was affected by how far the sump is from the spinning crankshaft on the Nascar Hemi's.

The farther away they lowered it, the more power they got. They ended up stopping the testing at about 3 feet or something like that, as it was obviously impractical. There were even pictures of the test set-ups in the article.
 
I am going to measure the volume of oil in the pan at the level of the dipstick. For example, If the dipstick low mark is 1.5 inches ,I measure the volume of oil in the pan at that level. Then I will measure the full mark and fill the pan to that level and see what I have. It is a 7 quart pan, supposedly. Does that include the filter as well? We will see. I will do this tonight . If anyone has a stock dipstick for a RB motor, could you measure the full and low levels relative to the stop that rests against the block. Curious what stock levels are.

Now about that windage tray, More research. I have both the windage tray/gasket combo and the rubber gasket, so I could go either way.
dip stick.jpg
 
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As others have stated, use the standard dipstick and oil level. The diff in radius for the longer stroke is not much. Yes, ideally you would not want a "crank dipper" where the journals slap the oil. But that aspect is designed in when the engine was designed. The biggest thing to remember is the running engine has much lower oil level in the pan than a static engine. Oil drawdown in the pan at higher rpm is controlled by how well the engine drains from upstairs- which is also impacted by blowby. Crank scrapers help quite a bit but that is trying keep oil IN the pan and out of the spinning crankcase tornado going on.
Bottom line: use the standard dipstick and Full mark.
 
Kent mosby said:
I am going to measure the volume of oil in the pan at the level of the dipstick. For example, If the dipstick low mark is 1.5 inches ,I measure the volume of oil in the pan at that level. Then I will measure the full mark and fill the pan to that level and see what I have. It is a 7 quart pan, supposedly. Does that include the filter as well? We will see. I will do this tonight . If anyone has a stock dipstick for a RB motor, could you measure the full and low levels relative to the stop that rests against the block. Curious what stock levels are.

Now about that windage tray, More research. I have both the windage tray/gasket combo and the rubber gasket, so I could go either way.
View attachment 1715808587
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Call Isihira-Johnson about the windage tray and crank scraper.
 
This is for a 360.

869315ad-cd15-4c7d-a3e3-897796987f13-jpg.jpg

dc449926-9cf0-4638-9ca1-db5acce2df74-jpg.jpg


Can anyone measure a stock 440 for me. This would allow me to verify my depth.
 
You are kinda doing it backwards Kent. If it’s a 7 quart pan put 7 quarts in it and mark the dipstick. Never trust a dipstick you don’t mark yourself.
 
Rat Bastid said:
You are kinda doing it backwards Kent. If it’s a 7 quart pan put 7 quarts in it and mark the dipstick. Never trust a dipstick you don’t mark yourself.
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I can't be sure what it is. It just looks like one. It is an no name aftermarket that came on the motor. Surely there is some formula for setting the oil level relative to the crank or block or windage tray. You would want the most possible knowing that while running the level would drop because of the oil being pumped into the motor.
Without knowing what I have and having an aftermarket dipstick as well, I have no reference point to check the dipstick. Some pans are measured with and some without considering the volume in the filter, further confusing the matter.
Another site but this is an aftermarket dipstick as well, not stock.
341654-072ba353865e14e57d01454dec4aa0ec.jpg
img_1352_dp_voss-jpg.jpg

Doing the math to find depth, These measurements would tell me that full is 2.250 inches below the stop and low is 3.875 below. This is the measurement that I seek to verify my components are correct.
 
Rat Bastid said:
You are kinda doing it backwards Kent. If it’s a 7 quart pan put 7 quarts in it and mark the dipstick. Never trust a dipstick you don’t mark yourself.
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This^^^

Also note that when installing a windage tray, there better be a generous cut-out for the dipstick to get by it. On my engine, I didn't leave quite enough room. No biggie I thought; I'll just bend the stick a lil. That worked fine until one day I installed the stick, ,handle upside down...... The stick hit the tray, slid sideways, and the crank tagged it and tore it to shreds...... That sucked.
Lesson learned ; never bent the end of the stick, when using a tray.

On the street, with a 367, I run a tray, and a 7qt roadrace pan, with 5 or 6 qts in it, and a hi-volume pump. I dug lots of drain-back channels in the heads and in the valley; some even, to dribble onto the camlobes. Seems to have worked, no more flatted lobes. I often shift this old girl at up to 7200.
 
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