Tire discounters can’t align my Dart.

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doogievlg said:
I dropped of my Swinger on Wednesday for an alignment. Got a call the next day asking what parts my front end came from. They could tell everything was new because I installed all new moog parts and new shocks. Upper control arm came from another dart and the LCA never came off the car. Zero after market parts besides the moog and one caliper. He tells me they can’t get it aligned but they are having someone else work on it the rest of the week. Got a call today and they said it’s as close as they can get. I asked for the numbers and of course they “couldn’t” get them to me after hours. Drove the car 2 miles home and it’s pulling to the right like crazy and I can see the difference in camber. They charged me $150. At this point I’m not taking the car back there but do I ask for my money back for such a trash job or be lucky that after working on it for so long they only charged me $150.
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Years ago we used to run into problems aligning the dart's, duster's etc. we found cracks (on the advice of a real oldtimer) around the K member mounting bolt holes, they couldn't be seen until the bolts were removed. it would let the K member move just a degree or 2, for each crack, so it could add up, once we found them, we saw it in a bunch that came through the shop. Just a thought
 
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67Dart273 said:
My lesson is, unless you are pretty crippled up learn to do it yourself. Unless there is some "really weird" problem such as something bent / broken that you haven't found, it is just not that hard

WHAT YOU NEED

1...A level place aka slab. I don't have, so I jack up my car trailer level after the car is loaded, and use it for a "rack"

2...An accurate way to measure tilt (degrees) reference to level. There are many ways to do that esp. with all the digi levels available, OR buy a caster/ camber gauge BUT YOU DON'T need one, just something to measure tilt

3...Something for "turn" plates and to allow the suspension to "settle". Many things (do a search, front end alignment turning plates) and there are ALL KINDS of solutions, including greased scrap sheet metal

4...You need something for toe. "Crackedback" says he just puts a pair of short 2x4's against the tires jacked up on soda cans and then measures between, front and back. I actually got myself a toe gauge (that I had to modify)

Listen, I'm 73. It would be MUCH harder for me now, than a few years ago, BUT I COULD. It would take all afternoon.

Other than that ?? an old school garage or even semi retired. Search around your area, even body men often are good alignment guys because some of them worked with frame racks and chassis straightening, etc

One of the best alignments I ever got "back then" was a body shop--I knew the owner and "first officer"
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Your Right-On, 67' Dart. I had an alighment problem with my 72' Dodge Van many years ago and took it to several alighment shops that charged, but made no difference. I did take it to a local body shop that said the frame was bent. I was skeptical, but allowed them to correct the problem. The issue was corrected, finally. I also, and still do have the same problem with my 69' Dart. Have taken it to several Tire shops and each have told me, it is not correct, but it is the best they can do. I also have installed all new "MOOG" parts. Old timers all hard to find, that are willing or able to work. A solution may be, a directory of "OLD SCHOOL" mechanics, not just a part replacement guy.
 
Old guys are difficult because they aren't motivated to do it. Money etc. doesn't motivate them, they've done it so much they have nothing to prove etc. Im not that old really but have been out of the auto business 10 years. i consider myself retired. i stay away from side jobs and I find myself saying to people" I dont do work for other people, I maintain my own vehicles thats it..." its never worth it and i realized people are never happy and dont appreciate what you do . i used to say " you could do it for them for free and they'd still complain..." :)
 
doogievlg said:
It is what it is. Tonight I’m going back to Tire Discounters to talk this over with them. Then I head to my apartment to get another load of stuff over to the new house. Tomorrow I’m getting new glasses and more moving and laundry so I have cloths for the honeymoon. Wednesday I’ll be cutting the grass and moving some more. Thursday is the rehearsal. Friday evening I’ll be at the venue helping set up. Then honeymoon for two weeks and finally back to a normal life where I can hunt and work on my car.
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By the way I wish you two the very best!!!
 
Bethel Frame is the way to go. I wish you'd have dropped me a PM first before going to Tire Discounters.
They (Amelia, Cherry Grove and Eastgate) used to send work to us because they couldn't handle anything older than 25 years.
Our alignment machine was only a couple years old, but we could take manual adjustments and load the measurements into the heads.
Greg out at Bethel Frame will do you a good job. I know he's back logged with work.
If he's to far out on the schedule, call Georgetown Tire and Service. Tell Denny you only want Jim doing any work. Jim used to work for me and knows Mopars like the back of his hand.
Southside does good work as well. I've never had an issue with them. Gary can get a little wound up, but I'm thinking he's not at the shop as much and Eric is running things.
Both places know cars. They know what they're doing and will stand behind it.
 
fourspeed said:
When I got mine together, I took it to a local shop that often does race cars. They dialed in a lot of extra caster in my case. Look for a shop like that.
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I worked at a couple shops like that. We did tons of classics/race cars/specialty cars. Anyone who understands vehicle/suspension geometry should be able to make a car go straight and wear tires correctly. 90% of the time we never even looked at specs.

To many "techs" looking at computer screens hoping for the "green is good" when that likely won't happen with our old rides. They don't understand how caster/camber/toe, etc work.

We just put some QA1 uppers on my co-worker's 69 Bee......toe was the only thing that was "green" on the screen when we were done but that thing goes down the road VERY nice and it'll wear the fatties he has on the front just fine!
 
gunbunny said:
Bethel Frame is the way to go. I wish you'd have dropped me a PM first before going to Tire Discounters.
They (Amelia, Cherry Grove and Eastgate) used to send work to us because they couldn't handle anything older than 25 years.
Our alignment machine was only a couple years old, but we could take manual adjustments and load the measurements into the heads.
Greg out at Bethel Frame will do you a good job. I know he's back logged with work.
If he's to far out on the schedule, call Georgetown Tire and Service. Tell Denny you only want Jim doing any work. Jim used to work for me and knows Mopars like the back of his hand.
Southside does good work as well. I've never had an issue with them. Gary can get a little wound up, but I'm thinking he's not at the shop as much and Eric is running things.
Both places know cars. They know what they're doing and will stand behind it.
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I’m not in any hurry so I can wait for Bethel. Thanks for the heads up on the Georgetown shop though.
 
Doogie,

I took mine to Southside Auto in Bethel. They know how to do a old Mopar front end. Rob is the Man ask for him. Tell him I sent you, he will says something funny, but is VG at what they do. Decent rates and don't look to gouge you or kick you while you are down. They do a lot of Rods from the area and are reputable.

I want to say that one of the secrets of the Moog correcting Bushings is that they must go in "opposite" of the old directions due to bias versus radial tires. They still wont give the caster you need. I tossed all that crap and went with a set of QA1s now I have a perfect alignment. Then I bought the LCA stiffening plates from Mancini and boxed the lowers too for super cheap! Easy weld job for any shop. 15 minutes. They can do that at the same time.

FYI,
Marion
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
Always ask of they have the specs for your car. Some times they dont... and dont admit it and align it to a newer car.
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specs for a bias ply year? Probably have to supply your own ....Moog offers the offset bushings for more something.
 
mario03srt said:
Doogie,

I took mine to Southside Auto in Bethel. They know how to do a old Mopar front end. Rob is the Man ask for him. Tell him I sent you, he will says something funny, but is VG at what they do. Decent rates and don't look to gouge you or kick you while you are down. They do a lot of Rods from the area and are reputable.

I want to say that one of the secrets of the Moog correcting Bushings is that they must go in "opposite" of the old directions due to bias versus radial tires. They still wont give the caster you need. I tossed all that crap and went with a set of QA1s now I have a perfect alignment. Then I bought the LCA stiffening plates from Mancini and boxed the lowers too for super cheap! Easy weld job for any shop. 15 minutes. They can do that at the same time.

FYI,
Marion
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ive got 3+ deg caster and -1/2 deg camber with offset bushings. I also shaved 3/16” off the rear poly strut rod bushings

my car does not have any rear rake. And it’s lowered too. Both help get positive caster.

We just aligned this Hemi barracuda, and it’s got a bunch of rear rake and it got high ride height. With offset bushing we barely got 2 deg positive caster

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I'm sure whoever at Tire Discounters never seen UCA cambered bolts and knew what to do or even recognized what He was working on. Yes I said HE! lol
 
mario03srt said:
I'm sure whoever at Tire Discounters never seen UCA cambered bolts and knew what to do or even recognized what He was working on. Yes I said HE! lol
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This would be a shame as a TON of GM trucks have alignment cams on the upper arms. If he doesn't know what to do with them he shouldn't be on the alignment rack!
 
Brooks James said:
Cest la vie, french for it is what it is, probably cant change it
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Thanks.
My point was that it is an empty phrase that people seem to like to use when they don’t have the imagination to think up something original.


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mario03srt said:
Doogie,

I took mine to Southside Auto in Bethel. They know how to do a old Mopar front end. Rob is the Man ask for him. Tell him I sent you, he will says something funny, but is VG at what they do. Decent rates and don't look to gouge you or kick you while you are down. They do a lot of Rods from the area and are reputable.

I want to say that one of the secrets of the Moog correcting Bushings is that they must go in "opposite" of the old directions due to bias versus radial tires. They still wont give the caster you need. I tossed all that crap and went with a set of QA1s now I have a perfect alignment. Then I bought the LCA stiffening plates from Mancini and boxed the lowers too for super cheap! Easy weld job for any shop. 15 minutes. They can do that at the same time.

FYI,
Marion
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I was going to take the car to Southside for the exhaust and Bethel frame for the alignment. If you think Southside can align the car then I recon I could just get it all knocked out there.
 
I do my own at home!

No "average" shop today knows how!

I can do better with a tape measure and speed level!
 
autoxcuda said:
ive got 3+ deg caster and -1/2 deg camber with offset bushings. I also shaved 3/16” off the rear poly strut rod bushings

my car does not have any rear rake. And it’s lowered too. Both help get positive caster.

We just aligned this Hemi barracuda, and it’s got a bunch of rear rake and it got high ride height. With offset bushing we barely got 2 deg positive caster

View attachment 1715812136

View attachment 1715812137
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Slip plates and alignment heads. I like it. You can do a pretty good job with those. Oh, I cam set toe with some string and a magic marker but it's a long way from being right.
 
I wish I was still doing alignments, back when I was last doing so in early 2000s, the other guy we had doing so was 500+ lb and hands that barely stuck out past his blubber, he wanted all the minivan alignments which were mostly "toe and go" because they didn't have any means to set caster and many had no camber either. So the only way he had to reach was upward to the tie rod ends.
Any other kind of vehicle and he was complaining "I don't understand why they give me (this) kind of car, they know I can't reach" and usually those were GMs with shims on the upper control arms... which are some of the easiest alignments to do.
That was ok ... I always would rather work on the older cars and trucks with shims or cams that really could actually BE adjusted. Now a days with things like ADAS (further idiot proofing in modern cars) you can't even align a car without having a scanner connected I guess going by what I've read in the trade magazines such as "brake and front end".... I dunno if I could still even do a true "alignment" on a car built in the last 5-8 years or so.... And today's "under 30" that can't do anything not presented in "video game" form doesn't fare well for us with older cars.
I took my Durango to the place I used to work when I redid it's front end for an alignment and the guy behind the counter (who was there when I worked there) said "this guy don't know how to do an alignment on something with slip shafts" aand sent me elsewhere.
I've had a few vehicles that I have needed aligned since I have left/ the newest being the 01 Durango/ and each time I ended up having to take my stuff to 2 different shops and pay twice each time to get a good alignment.
 
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