Vertical Mill

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6

6PakBee

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Location
North Dakota
I am in the market for a vertical mill. Intent is to use it mostly for head work, guides, seats, resurface the face. Have about a $7K budget.

1) Are my goals achievable with a bench mill? I looked on some machinist forums and the negatively was almost pouring out of my monitor.
2) What mill would you recommend? I've looked at a lot of the Chinesium mills (seems that's all there is currently) and the Precision Mathews seems to be a good choice but I am not saying they are the best choice.
3) Used? I've looked at used mills, primarily the Bridgeport Series 1 and for the most part they are hundreds of miles away with no means to load them out IF they are to be found. One that was advertised locally looked like it came from the hold of the Titanic.

What are your thoughts? Do you have any recommendations? Would appreciate any and all comments. I've been called an idiot before so no cherry there!
 
Damn, why all the hate? Lol. Thought forums were to help others and share knowledge? Instead of being dickheads, they could have offered advice.. wow man
 
Ironracer said:
Damn, why all the hate? Lol. Thought forums were to help others and share knowledge? Instead of being dickheads, they could have offered advice.. wow man
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It was interesting, I was reading a thread on one forum where the questioner mentioned all the negativity and then he was assaulted for saying that. I don't know. That's why I'm asking the question here rather than joining and asking the question there.
 
Are you on Facebook? I'm a member of a pretty good page there called "Home Machine Shop". Lots of good info there and plenty of items for sale.

What was the hate? What'd I miss? Dangit, I miss all the good stuff. lol
 
You should be able to buy a good used Bridgeport for 2-3k. 5k will get you a used cnc vertical. Your looking in the wrong places. Stay away from e bay. Look at auctions. Mill should be under power for your inspection and take someone with you that knows what they are looking at like a tool and die maker. If there is an air hose anywhere near the machine run the other way.
 
ch1ll said:
You should be able to buy a good used Bridgeport for 2-3k. 5k will get you a used cnc vertical. Your looking in the wrong places. Stay away from e bay. Look at auctions. Mill should be under power for your inspection and take someone with you that knows what they are looking at like a tool and die maker. If there is an air hose anywhere near the machine run the other way.
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I've looked at auctions. I'd love to go that way but for me it's impractical. First, they are typically a minimum of 450 miles from me. So traveling anywhere to physically look at something, that's all I would be doing, traveling. Secondly I haven't seen a Bridgeport go for $2K anywhere. There is an auction about 450 miles from me going on right now in MN for a Bridgeport Series 1 that has been heavily modified. Three weeks to go and it's already up to about $1800. Thirdly, every auction house I've looked at doesn't disconnect anything so I am trying to get a licensed electrician in a strange town just to disconnect it. Finally I haven't found one auction where anyone but the buyer is responsible for loading so now I'm rounding up a forklift, again in a strange town. It just doesn't seem to be practical. If I lived in OH, it would be a totally different situation, but I don't. Not trying to be a pessimist, just a realist. :thumbsup:
 
RustyRatRod said:
Are you on Facebook? I'm a member of a pretty good page there called "Home Machine Shop". Lots of good info there and plenty of items for sale.

What was the hate? What'd I miss? Dangit, I miss all the good stuff. lol
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I am not on Fakebook. Refuse to participate in that monster.
 
Bridgeports are awsome and a must have and worth all the hassle of finding one. I have a 1965 series 1 or "J" Head model. I could settle for a chinese lathe if needed but the bridgeport is not negotiable in my opinion. They have many brands that are nothing but copies of bridgeport and you will be surprised at all the frankenstines out there! But, you can get a danged good lookin chinese copy for about 8500.$ These old B/ports are easy to work on and or restore if you have the gumption just nuts and bolts if you are a competent wrench. You can get an excellent book for 30 bucks or so aand shows every danged part and tear down tips. Heck, should be able to find one for 1500. to 2500. hundred.Both of my lathes are old but work great. good luck.
 
Cuda Hunter said:
Why?
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The theory is metal chips will get blown into hidden areas & cause wear..... The reality is if you know what your doing you blow chips away from areas where they would be trapped & cause wear....

My mill has a Noga Cool Mist system that uses compressed air & coolant mist to reduce wear & cutting temperatures... Guess I need to scrap the damn thing...
 
FWIW I broke all the rules when I bought my mill... It couldn't be run, it didn't have power... I bought it sight unseen... I saw pictures, it looked dirty but solid & it was cheap.... As it turned out the guy I bought it from picked it up twenty years ago from a client who was going to jail.... It was ten years old at the time....

Newall DRO, powered feeds on all three axis, one shot lube system.... 8" Kurt vise with the swivel plate...


The guy I bought it from was an attorney, he got it with thoughts of a new hobby but when it was delivered he found out about three phase power & it never got used.. Just sat in his barn for twenty plus years....

I drove 600 miles round trip to get it & when I got it home I tore it apart to clean out all the old lube & get everything back in shape... Been using it for about 18 months now & collecting tooling...

Deals are out there, you just gotta look...

I'd like to learn more about cylinder head tooling options but currently I can't help much in the regard...

I can tell you ignore rotary phase convertors & get a VFD (variable frequency drive)
 
Paid $600 for my Bridgeport, complete with a full set of collets and spare table feed "nuts". Was already converted to a single phase 5HP motor. The old 1942 14 x 42 Forward lathe cost me a grand. Right place, right time..
motormountsapril2014 023.JPG
 
Cuda Hunter said:
Why?
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1WildRT said:
The theory is metal chips will get blown into hidden areas & cause wear..... The reality is if you know what your doing you blow chips away from areas where they would be trapped & cause wear....

My mill has a Noga Cool Mist system that uses compressed air & coolant mist to reduce wear & cutting temperatures... Guess I need to scrap the damn thing...
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hidden areas like between the gib and ways and all over the lead screw promoting wear. you wont notice much of a difference in your hobby shop with a mill you use a couple times a week but in an industrial setting there is grit from grinding wheels an incredible amount of dirt floating in the air. on a machine with no way covers used 10 to 20 hours a day, it does not take that long, like 3 to 5 years.

as for that mister you use, hope you like breathing that ****. your going to ruin your health.
 
6PakBee said:
I've looked at auctions. I'd love to go that way but for me it's impractical. First, they are typically a minimum of 450 miles from me. So traveling anywhere to physically look at something, that's all I would be doing, traveling. Secondly I haven't seen a Bridgeport go for $2K anywhere. There is an auction about 450 miles from me going on right now in MN for a Bridgeport Series 1 that has been heavily modified. Three weeks to go and it's already up to about $1800. Thirdly, every auction house I've looked at doesn't disconnect anything so I am trying to get a licensed electrician in a strange town just to disconnect it. Finally I haven't found one auction where anyone but the buyer is responsible for loading so now I'm rounding up a forklift, again in a strange town. It just doesn't seem to be practical. If I lived in OH, it would be a totally different situation, but I don't. Not trying to be a pessimist, just a realist. :thumbsup:
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you don't want one bad enough, you have to keep looking. looking at one auction is not going to do it. also look at machinery dealers, some of them are not in the phone book. talk around you'll find one eventually.

on most auction sites there is a machinery mover on site the day of the auction that will load you for a couple hundred bucks, he may even disconnect the power for you, if not a wire cutters will do. its only 3 wires. just make sure the power is off at the box.
 
ch1ll said:
you don't want one bad enough, you have to keep looking. looking at one auction is not going to do it. also look at machinery dealers, some of them are not in the phone book. talk around you'll find one eventually.

on most auction sites there is a machinery mover on site the day of the auction that will load you for a couple hundred bucks, he may even disconnect the power for you, if not a wire cutters will do. its only 3 wires. just make sure the power is off at the box.
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Hmm. I am starting to regretting posting. I see you are from Wisconsin. Maybe mills are behind every tree in WI, but in ND there are no trees. As to equipment movers, 'most' is not the same as 'every'.
 
No need to regret. Information is always a positive.
If you look through craigslist you can find a bridgeport for between 1900 and 9000. All over the country.
Since you're in North Dakota, you will have to travel to find one regardless. Hell I'm in Colorado and I have to travel hundreds and hundreds of miles to get anything. And I mean anything. A little drive ain't so bad.
 
Moving you need nothing but a small tow truck roll off bed with a winch. As it's coming off the truck bed place a few pieces of steel shaft , pipe or conduit under it and slowly roll it to where you want adding a pipe in front as they come out the back.
 
Dont fear three phase motors. I swapped my home bridgeport for a 220 motor. (Also did a lathe)

I was looking at doing a set of heads on my bridgeport but i could not justify the tooling to do one pair of heads and not much intention to do any more sets.

Do not fear the chinese copies of bridgeports as that is all i use at work on a daily basis. Some people just need brand names to feel better about themselves and resale.
 
6PakBee said:
I am in the market for a vertical mill. Intent is to use it mostly for head work, guides, seats, resurface the face. Have about a $7K budget.

1) Are my goals achievable with a bench mill? I looked on some machinist forums and the negatively was almost pouring out of my monitor.
2) What mill would you recommend? I've looked at a lot of the Chinesium mills (seems that's all there is currently) and the Precision Mathews seems to be a good choice but I am not saying they are the best choice.
3) Used? I've looked at used mills, primarily the Bridgeport Series 1 and for the most part they are hundreds of miles away with no means to load them out IF they are to be found. One that was advertised locally looked like it came from the hold of the Titanic.

What are your thoughts? Do you have any recommendations? Would appreciate any and all comments. I've been called an idiot before so no cherry there!
Click to expand...
In the mid 90's when I started hunting for a milling machine in the Houston area, things were rocking along pretty good as far as machine shops go so everything was at a premium. Even worn out Bridgeports with tables full of holes from 'machine operators' (dummies) were 7500 bucks with no tooling! Ended up buying a new Lagun with a 10x50 table for 10g. It's a Bridgeport clone but made in Spain and had looked at several used ones before opting to buy a new one since prices for used were just as bad as a used Bridgeport and had only heard good things about them. So far so good. And if you can get tooling with your purchase....do that because tooling can run your bill way up!
 
If head work was on the menu for the mill, I would be holding out for a 10x50 table machine. More room for fixturing and you can get to each end of the head with some table travel left. You need to be able to swing a big facing mill to do a head in one pass and it should go all the way off each end so you need all the Y-travel you can get. These big machines are less popular with home hobby guys. Bridgeport is the big name but don't pass up a TREE, Index, Wells-Index, or one of the better quality Asian imports. Be prepared to support a three phase motor with a VFD or if your machine has multiple motors for feeds or pumps, a rotary phase converter is a better solution.
 
gzig5 said:
If head work was on the menu for the mill, I would be holding out for a 10x50 table machine. More room for fixturing and you can get to each end of the head with some table travel left. You need to be able to swing a big facing mill to do a head in one pass and it should go all the way off each end so you need all the Y-travel you can get. These big machines are less popular with home hobby guys. Bridgeport is the big name but don't pass up a TREE, Index, Wells-Index, or one of the better quality Asian imports. Be prepared to support a three phase motor with a VFD or if your machine has multiple motors for feeds or pumps, a rotary phase converter is a better solution.
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A 10x50 table won't do it either....or at least that's what my milling machine is and it won't go off the end of the cut. If I'm taking a lot off, I'll do it with a fly cutter and then take the head to a shop for a light finish cut. Lots of shops around here don't like to take off more than .010 but it's not problem if I bring heads to them with .040 or more cut off. Most I've done was .100! That was just to see what an open chamber head would take lol. Even dissected stock heads to see how much material is around the ports etc. I know about core shift but still wanted to see the internals.
 
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