Not necessarily. I get it "where I like it". A lot of times, that's right where the cam card says. Sometimes it's not.
Degreeing Cam by Measuring Overlap @ Lifters
- Thread starter seabee
- Start date
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MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
I've had cams or timing sets...hmmm.. be 8 degrees OFF. Usually mopar cams that I used with jp performance timing sets.
I've also had more cams be dead nuts on the closing.
I set it to intake close where it should be or where I want it for the car it's going in, usually advanced 4-6.
If I spec the entire build.. I set it where the card says.. because the cam is right for what I'm doing.
If it feels soft now.. doesnt crank a ton of cyl pressure.. advance that ***** 4 degrees at least. I've put some in 10 degrees advance..lol.. enough advance to throw the tires off the wheels..
I've also had more cams be dead nuts on the closing.
I set it to intake close where it should be or where I want it for the car it's going in, usually advanced 4-6.
If I spec the entire build.. I set it where the card says.. because the cam is right for what I'm doing.
If it feels soft now.. doesnt crank a ton of cyl pressure.. advance that ***** 4 degrees at least. I've put some in 10 degrees advance..lol.. enough advance to throw the tires off the wheels..
seabee
Well-Known Member
Using a laser level to align the timing marks on the sprockets I got 10.5' after TDC. Using a flat edge on the lifters to check overlap I got 7' after TDC. TDC was found using a degree wheel and piston stop.
Edit: This is before installing new set.
Edit: This is before installing new set.
Ironracer
Gearhead
Thanks Rob! So I'm thinking, that, just comes with YEARS of Experience
Ironracer
Gearhead
Hell yeah! Now that IS brutal! Love it!
Years of fuckin up is more like it.
Ironracer
Gearhead
Well, that sounds like some of the gals I been with... Years of F'n up, dealing with dumb ****, and, ( Maybe) learning from Experience. I've had the pleasure of attracting Mentally Ill psychos....
j par
Well-hung Member
I had Ken at Oregon cam pretty much grind all of my cams and this last time we had an in-person conversation about degreeing the cam in my latest build that he ground... He certainly didn't mention anything about putting a little level across the intake and exhaust lifters...
The whole discussion surrounded getting it degrade to the cam card specs over the intake centerline..
While Uncle Tony and other Youboobers have their budget minded time (very little..) saving methods and especially in Uncle Tony's case justified by it being an old racers trick to save time in between rounds which likely those racers use the same cam over and over you're not going to find any cam manufacturer to say do it with a level across the lifters...
99.99% of the time if you just line it up to dot it's going to run fine, but run to its potential... My money is going to go on what the cam grinder recommends and it ain't sticking no level across the two lifters..
The whole discussion surrounded getting it degrade to the cam card specs over the intake centerline..
While Uncle Tony and other Youboobers have their budget minded time (very little..) saving methods and especially in Uncle Tony's case justified by it being an old racers trick to save time in between rounds which likely those racers use the same cam over and over you're not going to find any cam manufacturer to say do it with a level across the lifters...
99.99% of the time if you just line it up to dot it's going to run fine, but run to its potential... My money is going to go on what the cam grinder recommends and it ain't sticking no level across the two lifters..
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
LOL well I ain't. You could count the cams I've installed on both hands and a couple toes. Most of those were back in the old days, LOL I never knew what a degree wheel was. "I asked" most guys I knew said "just put it in"!! LOL
Ironracer
Gearhead
Even this 'Ol Carpenter can actuallyBig red "X" right back at ya LOL
"SEE" where that is at that point.. makes it very visible, in my mind...when the lifters are at their high point, basically exactly at the same " lift" that's where yer overlap is.... been a really messy weekend, I'm glad I'm able to come here and learn things. THANKS 318!
Ironracer
Gearhead
That's what I always did, but You, 318, and RRR have actually made me darn near understand this, to me anyway, dark arcane art...
Sorry,
Nicely presented video but very misleading. Three assumptions are being made that could could additively distort the result or going the other way, be mutually cancelling. Those three things are that the sprocket key ways are correctly indexed & that the machining/key slot/TDC mark on the balancer is accurate.
Also, in post #8, the OP says it is a 'split' cam. If that means the the exh duration is greater than the intake, & the above machining was correct, then that cam is retarded, ie. the ICL is greater than the LSA [ example 112 ICL, 108 LSA ].
With a single pattern cam, the video procedure is useful as a guide, but not super accurate. Good enough for a starting point if you want to see how your new cam performs. Typically, using the video method with a single pattern cam that has 4* of advance ground in, putting a straight edge across the lifters on overlap, the intake lifter will he higher by 0.010-0.040" than the exh. If the exh is higher, then the cam c/l is retarded relative to TDC.
Nicely presented video but very misleading. Three assumptions are being made that could could additively distort the result or going the other way, be mutually cancelling. Those three things are that the sprocket key ways are correctly indexed & that the machining/key slot/TDC mark on the balancer is accurate.
Also, in post #8, the OP says it is a 'split' cam. If that means the the exh duration is greater than the intake, & the above machining was correct, then that cam is retarded, ie. the ICL is greater than the LSA [ example 112 ICL, 108 LSA ].
With a single pattern cam, the video procedure is useful as a guide, but not super accurate. Good enough for a starting point if you want to see how your new cam performs. Typically, using the video method with a single pattern cam that has 4* of advance ground in, putting a straight edge across the lifters on overlap, the intake lifter will he higher by 0.010-0.040" than the exh. If the exh is higher, then the cam c/l is retarded relative to TDC.
Ironracer
Gearhead
Now I'm confused, again...
j par
Well-hung Member
Your disagree was just out of hurt feelings, mine were out of knowledge given to me by the person who ground my cam and your cam...Big red "X" right back at ya LOL
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I got to give another one .... LOLYour disagree was just out of hurt feelings, mine were out of knowledge given to me by the person who ground my cam and your cam...
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Again, it's not for everyone. Like I say in the video ... "take it as unprofessional advice". I think I said in the beginning "degreeing wheel is your best way". Now, I turn it over to the "judges"! Ye'll have funLOL... I'm not
IF I put my "wrongly installed cam that's retarded in timing" junkyard 200,*** mile 5.9 (didn't even pull the pan) in a Duster, I'd be beating some 6,000 dollar stroker motor A-body street cars on even this here site !!! Some that even had machine shop ported heads, 410 cubes, custom ground cam (that was OBVIOUSLY installed correctly), roller rockers, and dual quads !!!!!
j par
Well-hung Member
The results are not tested? They're only tested the way you put them in there then if you read agree the cam will they be different? I said in my original post that you could put it.. and it's going to run and probably run good but optimized?..LOL... I'm not
I justify a method by results.
You have no clue. Unless you have back-to-back test and a controlled environment with the same engine...
j par
Well-hung Member
It's funny how you started with you're not going to argue the point LOL...Again, it's not for everyone. Like I say in the video ... "take it as unprofessional advice". I think I said in the beginning "degreeing wheel is your best way". Now, I turn it over to the "judges"! Ye'll have fun
I agree to disagree or agree LOL you can stick to your unprofessional advice as quoted and I'll stick to my professional advice from the person who ground both of our cams...
So then you have no clue either, 'cuz you didn't do "back to back test in a controlled enviroment". LOL
QuickDart360
Well-Known Member
I lined up my 292 purple shaft using the cloyes true roller chain. Checked out spot on. Then I advanced cam 4° @ crank and car runs very responsive! 3.91's out back also help.
Well, stick to any method you'd like !!! I didn't PM you telling you to try my method LOL
It was in single digits this morning, or else I'd be out getting stuff done on "Change and Challenge" project. Again, I measure by results. You might consider doing the same... LOLThe problem is 318WR is not the OP, & the OP hasn't indicated what camshaft We are talking about, single/dual pattern? How aggressive? Say a Comp XE with fast open ramps & slower closing ramps? With the lobe centers installed straight-up on a typical dual pattern, the OL will shift ATDC, but maybe less or to BTDC the more assymetrical the lobes are a la aggressive endurance cams.
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Have You checked the lifters when seated on the base circles to see if they're perfectly level to begin with? If not, this method is not OK, even if Your goal is to time by =OL valve lift.
And please share which camshaft You are working with.
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