Degreeing Cam by Measuring Overlap @ Lifters

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Killer6 said:
Have You checked the lifters when seated on the base circles to see if they're perfectly level to begin with? If not, this method is not OK, even if Your goal is to time by =OL valve lift.
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Yes.
And please share which camshaft You are working with.
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LA Small Block Hydraulic Lifter Camshaft.

To be clear, I'm not looking for advice or how-to's just curious as to why there were two different methods presented for degreeing and how they compare.
 
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seabee said:
Yes.

LA Small Block Hydraulic Lifter Camshaft.

To be clear, I'm not looking for advice or how-to's just curious as to why there were two different methods presented for degreeing and how they compare.
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That's a nice little cruiser, and a dual pattern with a typical longer exhaust. So as I posted above, the =lift on OL will be retarded ATDC about 3deg or so on that one with the lobe centers "straight-up" @112deg, advancing 4deg to center the =lift will be fine.
I guess there are a bunch of ways if You know what You're doing/looking at. As long as You're aware of & understand how diff open/close rate ramps & dual-patterns move the overlap center how much & which way, this method will work.
 
318willrun said:
Well, stick to any method you'd like !!! I didn't PM you telling you to try my method LOL :D It was in single digits this morning, or else I'd be out getting stuff done on "Change and Challenge" project. Again, I measure by results. You might consider doing the same... LOL
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You say this as if your results have more then seat of the pants it works Data...
And I get it, you said it yourself quote take it is unprofessional advice. And I'm saying I took my professional advice from the person who ground both of our cams and did it that way... Both of our cars or trucks are going to run and to us seem to run good but which one of us maximized... We could have this simple question answered by the person who ground both of our cams and which way he would do it?...:D...
 
318willrun said:
If you watched the video, I explained this also. The damper or harmonic balancer will tell you the degrees it's off with the timing cover once all is verified that TDC is actually TDC.
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Nice video, I was taught that method back in the 70's.
The only thing you're lacking is a timing cover sawed above the timing mark and a peep hole for the crank gear mark.
 
A typical performance cam will have 50 to 70 degrees of overlap. With everything assembled and the Piston at True TDC on the overlap Cycle, you have a friggen huge window of overlap to target.
Next there is no single point on any street lobe, that you can point to and say " this is max lift".
Next, Almost no streeter will ever install a cam with identical and symmetrical lobes, if you can even find one.
Next, can you say that your lifters are at identical places on the tapered Flat Tappet lobes? Not brudywikly, lol.

This idea is only good for two things :
1) with the Piston at True TDC, and the cam slid in, and at or near, split overlap, it makes it easier to slip the lined up drive kit on, and to see if you actually got dot-to-dot right. and
2) in the field, if you suspect the cam timing is wonky, it is a quick test to verify a jumped chain.
3) there ain't no three.

OP; put this idea out of your head, there are just too many variables to make this anything but an exercise, and not even a good one. Most street cams are installed slightly advanced, 4* is a common number. But this number is not measured off the lobes, but instead is off one leg of the theoretical LSA.
Only the cam-grinder knows where this is, cuz he put it in a pretty exact place; Once you get into your grubby hands you have no stinking clue where it is. You have to degree the install, and pray that it's where you think it is.

It's like your first high-school kiss; Once you close your eyes, you gotta pray you land that thing right.

Ok maybe there is a three.
After you have installed and degreed the cam, and you know where you installed it; THEN, you can find a point that is affectionately called split overlap using the straightedge method, and see that point on the balancer. Write it down. A year from now, you can check it again and see how your chain is doing........ lol. But I think there are at least two easier ways than taking the intake off ...........
 
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fishmens67 said:
Nice video, I was taught that method back in the 70's.
The only thing you're lacking is a timing cover sawed above the timing mark and a peep hole for the crank gear mark.
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Never thought of that !!! that is a great idea !
 
j par said:
. Both of our cars or trucks are going to run and to us seem to run good but which one of us maximized... :D...
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Oh, PLEASE don't take a poll over which car is maximized ......
:rofl:
AGAIN, you made your point. You are not going to use this method. Shall we publish it in the Huffington Post ??? LOL
 
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seabee said:
Yes.

LA Small Block Hydraulic Lifter Camshaft.

To be clear, I'm not looking for advice or how-to's just curious as to why there were two different methods presented for degreeing and how they compare.
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I have one of those, it was in a core motor I was given. Truck cam.
I always use @.050 intake close.
Idk For people who like to do math?
To each his own.
 
318willrun said:
Oh, PLEASE don't take a poll over which car is maximized ......
:rofl:
AGAIN, you made your point. You are not going to use this method. Shall we publish it in the Huffington Post ??? LOL
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Go ahead take your pole...
Or better yet make a Youboob video about it... LOL..
I don't know who made the video first you or Uncle Tony but I watched them both as I was looking through ideas and ways to degree my newly ground cam comparing it to what Ken told me... When I seen the way Uncle Tony and you did it on your videos while it was mediocre entertainment it was definitely a lesson in the way I definitely didn't want to do it...

Thank you....
 
j par said:
Go ahead take your pole...
Or better yet make a Youboob video about it... LOL..
I don't know who made the video first you or Uncle Tony but I watched them both as I was looking through ideas and ways to degree my newly ground cam comparing it to what Ken told me... When I seen the way Uncle Tony and you did it on your videos while it was mediocre entertainment it was definitely a lesson in the way I definitely didn't want to do it...

Thank you....
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All I'll say is some of the fastest cars on earth have used this method. Also, this method is MUCH older than YouTube. I didn't invent it. I do differ from most because I don't use the feeler gage. Most calculate every .004 to be 2* ??? Anyways, we'll both continue to do it the way we want, which we should.
 
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318willrun said:
All I'll say is some of the fastest cars on earth have used this method. Also, this method is MUCH older than YouTube. I didn't invent it. I do differ from most because I don't use the feeler gage. Most calculate every .004 to be 2* ??? Anyways, we'll both continue to do it the way we want, which we should.
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It might be worth pointing out those fastest cars on earth didn't start with this method they probably degreed their cams several times and then as we know top fuel fastest car on Earth kind of dragsters refresh their engine in between rounds and use the same exact components and use this method just as a quick check...
 
j par said:
It might be worth pointing out those fastest cars on earth didn't start with this method they probably degreed their cams several times and then as we know top fuel fastest car on Earth kind of dragsters refresh their engine in between rounds and use the same exact components and use this method just as a quick check...
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you win :)
 
I do. Plan was to run this current 318 in the Barracuda and rebuild the 273 until I find a Dodge van to put the 318 in. Van prices and a move to a smaller garage changed the plans for the meantime.

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