Five year old article on the "15 inch tire problem"

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I wonder if these are still better handling than a BFG.

Nitto says to use the -RII in the rear of street strip car and run the -R in the front. Does that mean they have a better sidewall for handling??
...

This is interesting. Unfortunately, even if the -R was suitable for handling performance, not many of us can fit a 15" wheel that would be wide enough to sensibly accommodate a 275 without some ridiculous widebody kit. Any 15" wider than 7" or so and with enough backspacing for tires like this, would be grinding a groove into the upper control arm.

That’s a good question. I’ve run down that line of thought a few times. Obviously the compound is better. The only real question is the sidewalls. Are they that much softer than a regular tire that it would offset the improvement in compound?...

It would be lovely to know but until someone buys them and tries it out, we will have no idea. If Nitto is like M/T, they would never dream of saying it was ok.

If you're looking for F1 tires, probably, but if the target is a tire similar to "normal" 100-118 MPH rated 4 season tires.....

Not really a problem.

What about those of us who want something in between?

Forget handling demands, some of us would like to be able to drive to the drag strip and not have to carry FOUR mounted tires to swap over. As it stands, any of the all season junk tires discussed so far would be at risk of exploding at the top end of the strip on almost anybody's car..assuming they ever get enough traction to get rolling. :D


Does anyone know the tire/wheel package on this famous Dart Trans Am racer? Those tires almost look like radials...of course, they're probably race only slicks but if there was anything close, it would be encouraging.

upload_2022-1-18_14-53-14.png
 
If all of these "14 and 15" tires are soooo hard to find" threads would start instead with-

"What 14" tires is anyone using for road racing"

I'd just keep my keyboard shut.

Quality 14 and 15" tires for "normal" and even "spirited" driving are as close as ebay and tirerack.

Instead they sound like no one can find any 14 or 15" tires anywhere and everyone needs to run out and buy at least 17" rims today, or not be able to drive their car.

/rant
 
If all of these "14 and 15" tires are soooo hard to find" threads would start instead with-

"What 14" tires is anyone using for road racing"

I'd just keep my keyboard shut.

Quality 14 and 15" tires for "normal" and even "spirited" driving are as close as ebay and tirerack.

Instead they sound like no one can find any 14 or 15" tires anywhere and everyone needs to run out and buy at least 17" rims today, or not be able to drive their car.

/rant

I would LOVE to be proven wrong.
No sarcasm intended at all here; would you mind linking to a few...or even one 15" tire available in the 225-275 section width range that's 25+" tall or greater that's any better than a Cooper Cobra or a M/T Sportsman ST? Maybe we're all just blind to something that's super obvious to you.
 
Here's a guy with a pretty wicked Dart set up with the intent to handle... who is also ballsy enough to run M/T ET Street S/S on the front!
Does anyone know this Gary Brown from Australia? Maybe he can tell us how they perform and how they're holding up.

1968 DODGE DART STREET-REGISTERED RACER

upload_2022-1-18_15-23-45.png
 
If all of these "14 and 15" tires are soooo hard to find" threads would start instead with-

"What 14" tires is anyone using for road racing"

I'd just keep my keyboard shut.

Quality 14 and 15" tires for "normal" and even "spirited" driving are as close as ebay and tirerack.

Instead they sound like no one can find any 14 or 15" tires anywhere and everyone needs to run out and buy at least 17" rims today, or not be able to drive their car.

/rant

BFG T/A's and Cooper Cobras are ALL SEASON TIRES. They're better suited for a mini-van than a muscle car, their specs and ratings make them look much better than they actually are. The fact that the treadwear ratings are determined by 7,200 miles of testing is a boon for them, because anyone that's run BFG T/A's knows that after about that much the tires grip and wear changes dramatically- they turn into straight up hockey pucks after a couple seasons. The only reason they're run by so many people is that they "look right" for a muscle car. If actual performance was much of a concern no one would touch them with a 10 foot pole, but chunky tread and white letters are more important to most than actual performance. Just see any of the 17/18" wheel hate threads with everyone whining about how they look, with no consideration for actual performance.

The bottom line is most people that drive these cars really only cruise them around a bit, and occasionally do a burn out or two to show off. Well, BFG T/A's are great for burnouts because they're rock hard and spin easy. I could torch off the imitation T/A's on my Challenger with a bone stock 318 and 2.76 rear gears. Yeah it looked cool, but it sure as heck wasn't fast. And before you say "but those were imitation tires" let me say that you've been talking about off-brand tires yourself. And there's only a handful of actual tire manufacturers that make all the different brands of tires, so, most off-brand tires come from the same place as the name brand ones do anyway.

So next time you see a "14" or 15" tires are hard to find" thread, just assume the poster doesn't want crappy all-season tires. Because that's all there is. BFG T/A's, Cooper Cobra's, or an imitation of one or the other. Offered in only a handful of sizes too. How's that for a "/rant"?

I don't blame MRGTX at all, if someone made a nice 245/55/15 with a 200-300 treadwear rating and "AA" traction and "A" temp ratings that would be great. But that doesn't exist.

Here's a guy with a pretty wicked Dart set up with the intent to handle... who is also ballsy enough to run M/T ET Street S/S on the front!
Does anyone know this Gary Brown from Australia? Maybe he can tell us how they perform and how they're holding up.

1968 DODGE DART STREET-REGISTERED RACER

View attachment 1715855066

I was gonna say, I KNEW I'd seen somewhere that somebody was running those tires up front on a handling based car. I didn't say anything cause I couldn't remember where I'd seen it. Yeah I'd be curious to find out how well that actually works.
 
Got these from Wally World online
Hankook 265/50/15 - A bit short at 25.5” mounted, shown here with 225/60/15. Almost exactly the same height, too wide for the front though.
upload_2022-1-18_15-45-46.jpeg
 
Got these from Wally World online
Hankook 265/50/15 - A bit short at 25.5” mounted, shown here with 225/60/15. Almost exactly the same height, too wide for the front though.
View attachment 1715855111

Right. Tread wear on those tires is 680, which puts them firmly in the commute tire category. Now, they still might be better than a BFG T/A after a couple of seasons, but a performance tire they are not.

And that size is kinda weird. It's too wide for the front even if you max out what a 15" rim can have for backspacing. But it's only 25.3" tall, which makes it pretty short for a rear tire.

A 245/55/15 would be the ticket. Run it on a 15x7" with 4.75" of backspace, tune the rim-to-suspension/brakes clearance with a spacer if necessary. It would right on the fenders and right on the suspension, widest you could go with a 15" rim without going to heavily rolled/flared fenders. Run it with the later 11.75" rotors, and a compound somewhere in the 200-300 range and you'd be doing great with a factory suspension rebuild running 1.03" torsion bars and offset UCA bushings. It would handle great on the street, be plenty of fun at an autoX, and not be "too much" to cruise around with for guys more interested in that.

Heck even a 235/55/15 or 235/60/15 with decent compound options would be ok. The 55 series would be a little short but not terrible. The 60 series would be right at the upper limit for height on a tire that wide at around 26.1", a lot of cars would need to do some work to the front lower fender corner. But all you can get in a 235/60/15 is 400 or higher tread wear compounds- T/A's, Cobra's or those Hankooks. All season or touring tires, nothing really performance orientated that's a DOT legal non drag radial.
 
Got these from Wally World online
Hankook 265/50/15 - A bit short at 25.5” mounted, shown here with 225/60/15. Almost exactly the same height, too wide for the front though.
View attachment 1715855111

While I appreciate very much that you’re sharing these, I’m 99% sure those are the Kinergy ST all season radials. I’m sure they’re fine but the treadwear is a staggering 680. Those should outlast the world supply of gasoline. :)

Edit: redundant post. 72bluNblu posted as I was writing. :)
 
Right. Tread wear on those tires is 680, which puts them firmly in the commute tire category. Now, they still might be better than a BFG T/A after a couple of seasons, but a performance tire they are not.

And that size is kinda weird. It's too wide for the front even if you max out what a 15" rim can have for backspacing. But it's only 25.3" tall, which makes it pretty short for a rear tire.

A 245/55/15 would be the ticket. Run it on a 15x7" with 4.75" of backspace, tune the rim-to-suspension/brakes clearance with a spacer if necessary. It would right on the fenders and right on the suspension, widest you could go with a 15" rim without going to heavily rolled/flared fenders. Run it with the later 11.75" rotors, and a compound somewhere in the 200-300 range and you'd be doing great with a factory suspension rebuild running 1.03" torsion bars and offset UCA bushings. It would handle great on the street, be plenty of fun at an autoX, and not be "too much" to cruise around with for guys more interested in that.

Heck even a 235/55/15 or 235/60/15 with decent compound options would be ok. The 55 series would be a little short but not terrible. The 60 series would be right at the upper limit for height on a tire that wide at around 26.1", a lot of cars would need to do some work to the front lower fender corner. But all you can get in a 235/60/15 is 400 or higher tread wear compounds- T/A's, Cobra's or those Hankooks. All season or touring tires, nothing really performance orientated that's a DOT legal non drag radial.

True - I wish there were more 55/15 series tires out there. The Hankooks are just cruising tires but they look great on the back of the Barracuda and nowhere near as expensive as BFGs
Edit: ‘Those should outlast the world supply of gasoline.’ LOL!
 
True - I wish there were more 55/15 series tires out there. The Hankooks are just cruising tires but they look great on the back of the Barracuda and nowhere near as expensive as BFGs

Oh totally, I despise the BFG T/A's. Any options other than them are a good thing.

For what the BFG T/A's cost the performance is straight up lousy. And I'm sure they know that, but people will keep buying them because that's what they remember and that's what "looks right". And 30-40 years ago the performance was much closer matched to what you could easily do with the suspension, and they were already a massive improvement from bias ply's. So relatively speaking they were a good tire then. But now the rest of the cars on the road perform much better. And it's relatively simple to upgrade your suspension with parts that are pretty widely available, even retaining a lot of the factory parts, and go well past what the BFG T/A's can handle performance-wise.
 
Oh totally, I despise the BFG T/A's. Any options other than them are a good thing.

For what the BFG T/A's cost the performance is straight up lousy. And I'm sure they know that, but people will keep buying them because that's what they remember and that's what "looks right". And 30-40 years ago the performance was much closer matched to what you could easily do with the suspension, and they were already a massive improvement from bias ply's. So relatively speaking they were a good tire then. But now the rest of the cars on the road perform much better. And it's relatively simple to upgrade your suspension with parts that are pretty widely available, even retaining a lot of the factory parts, and go well past what the BFG T/A's can handle performance-wise.
Yep, I’d say your average cheap-*** all season radial these days would perform better than BFGs but I understand the “cool factor” in using T/A Radials.
I’ve always liked Goodyears and wished they’d bring back Eagle GT high performance 15s
 
Do we dare temp the world of bias ply? Supposedly, Hoosier Street TDs are a bit more forgiving than the stereotypical bias ply tire and at least they’re a performance compound. Still, it seems wrong.

Tire, Hoosier, Racing, 275-60-15, Street TD, bias ply, 27.6'' dia.

Tire, Hoosier, Racing, 225-60-15, Street TD, bias ply, 25.8'' dia.

Yeah I dunno about that. I looked up the last time that Aussie car was talked about, we basically covered all the same drag radial ground as here. As for the bias ply's, per the the Australian Trans-Am series rules "A Hoosier cross-ply tyre is used on all cars to keep them sliding through the corners, and are wrapped around maximum 15” x 8.5” wheels". The old link I had to the Australian Trans-Am series rules is dead, although I know they still run those Hoosiers as part of the deal. Here's the old thread Road Course "Trans Am" Dart-- does anyone recognize this car? What tires????

But that also kinda puts to bed the idea that car is competing on those tires, because if it's competing in anything over there it's not running that set of tires on the track.

It also highlights the problem pointing to certain race series for performance choices. The Aussie trans-am stuff is awesome, but the tire choices are specifically intended to limit performance and keep it entertaining. Like restrictor plate racing in NASCAR, they don't do it because it's faster.

“NOT INTENDED FOR HIGHWAY USE” ?!

Yep, not DOT legal. Track tires only. Funny they're called "street TD" though if they're not street legal.
 
Yeah I dunno about that. I looked up the last time that Aussie car was talked about, we basically covered all the same drag radial ground as here. As for the bias ply's, per the the Australian Trans-Am series rules "A Hoosier cross-ply tyre is used on all cars to keep them sliding through the corners, and are wrapped around maximum 15” x 8.5” wheels". The old link I had to the Australian Trans-Am series rules is dead, although I know they still run those Hoosiers as part of the deal. Here's the old thread Road Course "Trans Am" Dart-- does anyone recognize this car? What tires????

But that also kinda puts to bed the idea that car is competing on those tires, because if it's competing in anything over there it's not running that set of tires on the track.

It also highlights the problem pointing to certain race series for performance choices. The Aussie trans-am stuff is awesome, but the tire choices are specifically intended to limit performance and keep it entertaining. Like restrictor plate racing in NASCAR, they don't do it because it's faster.



Yep, not DOT legal. Track tires only. Funny they're called "street TD" though if they're not street legal.

Speaking of Aussies, I’ve been watching the current Touring Car Masters racing series on YT and it’s great fun! Quite a few old American Pony/Muscle cars on the circuits, as well as Aussie performance cars and even 4-doors!
 
Back in the late '80s Goodyear and Goodrich would ship some of their street tires that they had shaved to 1/2 tread depth at no extra charge. This improved road course and autoX performance. I wonder if we could buy our rock hard BFGs or Coopers pre-shaved it would improve their performance? If anyone knows where I can buy shaved tires, please share it. With as few miles as most of us put on our cars I don't think the loss of some tread would be an issue.
And I'd totally try some non-radials, I've used bias racing tires and like them a lot.
 

Ah yes. I remember that thread now. I thought I remembered something about that ‘68 but it got mixed up in my memory with the #18 Trans Am car. In any case, it’s frustrating to see that five years later, we’re no better off.

I did end up finding the wheel style that I wanted but it has kept me going around and around with this 15” tire problem. Because of this, I’ve been on a schedule of seriously considering 17s or 18s about once every 3 months.

34662E0B-9A21-43D7-B6FE-13C4F4FACBB5.jpeg
 
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Back in the late '80s Goodyear and Goodrich would ship some of their street tires that they had shaved to 1/2 tread depth at no extra charge. This improved road course and autoX performance. I wonder if we could buy our rock hard BFGs or Coopers pre-shaved it would improve their performance? If anyone knows where I can buy shaved tires, please share it. With as few miles as most of us put on our cars I don't think the loss of some tread would be an issue.
And I'd totally try some non-radials, I've used bias racing tires and like them a lot.

I think you can have any tires shaved so long as they haven’t seen the road yet. I remember asking about shaving Radial T/As a while back and the consensus was that it wasn’t going to help much.

Looking at it now, the compound, while never great, is at its best for about one season. Shaving the tires would certainly reduce rotational inertia, mitigate squirming tread blocks and possibly improve their grip limits and responsiveness as well. Since it wouldn’t technically shorten their life and maybe make their already poor wet weather performance only slightly worse, I don’t see a down side!
 
These look only slightly more promising than the M/T Cobra T/As discussed so far…but they do look to be at least a little better (H speed rating). They are painfully expensive.

Has anyone tried these Hoosiers?

The 27x10.50R-15LT is $343.

Hoosier 19075PS: Pro Street Radial Tire Size: 27x10.50R-15LT - JEGS High Performance

View attachment 1715860729
First, I have not tried those tires.
I wonder what their purpose is. I understand the much bigger versions of that tire, for prostreet cars with big Tubbs, that need a big fat street tread tire. But I don't think that tire is particularly a handling tire, and it's not really a drag radial traction tire. And it is really expensive! They would not be my personal choice.
 
Agree with 33IMP - other than to make money for Hoosier, this tire has no purpose. Tire manufacturers need to learn there is a still market for high performance 15’s and they’re shorting their customers and themselves by not offering products for us.
 
Agreed with the suggestion that these have no defined purpose, especially in these “normal” sizes. It’s like they made a tire to compete with the M/T Sportsman street rod tires and just happened to make smaller sizes too.

The tread looks almost like an all season pattern but not quite.

The one obvious advantage they have is that their speed rating accommodates the bulk of cars running that tire size since few of them would be capable of exceeding their speed rating in the quarter mile.
 
Agree with 33IMP - other than to make money for Hoosier, this tire has no purpose. Tire manufacturers need to learn there is a still market for high performance 15’s and they’re shorting their customers and themselves by not offering products for us.

The real problem would be is there actually? I've seen so many threads here and elsewhere and everyone just buys cooper cobras and radial t/a's. Somehow a lot of people still think they are "good", even some normal all-seasons you can buy now for 17'+ rims are leaps and bounds better than either of those for performance. My DD's General GMax AS-05's are leaps and bounds grippier than either of the common ones, that car could pull 0.87g on the original eco tires so I can only imagine what these can do. Getting a corporation that wants to make profit investing in low run tires in multiple sizes is extremely unlikely.

You'd be far better off by having a 17 or 18" wheel for performance. The 200 treadwear autocross tires like Dunlop Direzza ZIII or BFG G-force rivals would blow your mind. You don't need a mud and snow radial.
 
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