Torsion bar removal Blues. What happened here????

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JoePole1

JoePole1

A dude in a B body
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After MUCH effort yesterday I got my engine, trans and K-Frame dropped as a unit. I said unit. The big issue was the passenger side torsion bar "stuck" in the lower control arm.
The car is on a lift and I fully loosened both T-Bar adjusters. The driver's side came out easily. On the pass side I had to make a tool and used a hand sledge striking the tool rearward but got little movement. Yes the rear clip was out. I tried loosening the strut rod and control arm shaft nut but to no avail. I also hit the control arm/t-bar socket with the sledge to try to free it up but NFG. I finally got the bar removed by attaching a come-along to the tool I made and hooked into a rear frame hole. Even with the bar beyond the frame socket and a lot of tension on it there wasn't much movement but eventually it freed up with me hitting the control arm socket and driving the arm forward with a HD rod and hand sledge. There was so much force that the control arm pivot shaft actually pulled out of the arm quite a bit. WTF? Ever see this?!?!?!?!?!? Next question is can I just press the pivot shaft back in and call it good?
Before you answer...Note that I rebuilt my suspension with all new T-bars, bushings, shafts, etc about 8K miles 10 years ago and the car is not driven in the rain. The T-bar ends were greased up prior to assembly.

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When you rebuilt it do you recall any issues with the torsion bars going in? What do the ends of the bar look like?
 
No issues during assembly that I recall. The rearward end still has plenty of long strand grease on it but as I said, the front was the issue even after the rear was out of the frame socket so definitely not under torsional load. The front of the bar has some standard grease still on it.
Is it possible that the front of the bar kind of hydro locked in the control arm socket??? That is all I can think of.
I'll take a better look at the bar and CA tonight and post pics. Was late and had to work today. Thanks.
 
JoePole1 said:
No issues during assembly that I recall. The rearward end still has plenty of long strand grease on it but as I said, the front was the issue even after the rear was out of the frame socket so definitely not under torsional load. The front of the bar has some standard grease still on it.
Is it possible that the front of the bar kind of hydro locked in the control arm socket??? That is all I can think of.
I'll take a better look at the bar and CA tonight and post pics. Was late and had to work today. Thanks.
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The only other ting I can think of is the frame socket and control arm socket are not concentric, causing the bar to be a bit side loaded.
 
To correctly remove the bars. remove the strut rod nuts and control arm nuts. Take the adjuster bolts all the way out and tap the whole control arm back out of the K-member. Then slide the arm off the T-bar. I do a lot of them.

That pin sliding off the bushing is common. That even happens when hitting the brakes hard in reverse at times. Do your self a favor and get OEM bushings installed and tighten the pin nut after the car is at ride height. to prevent damage.

neigh sayers should be chiming in shortly LOL due to the fact they have them on their car. LOL I probably just stirred the pot
 
The stuck torsion bar happens often if the LCA is cocked or the k frame sleeve is out of position.
 
Did you remove the upper bump stop before you lowered the LCA and backed off the TB adjuster?? If not, probably why there was still load on the bar..
 
Dfr360cuda said:
Picture 1... What's the Unistrut for ?
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The I only had long u-bolts so the top is resting on the t-bar and the unistrut is taking up the void under the bar. What you can't see is that there is also a smaller piece of unistrut with the U or open end against the bar. Here's a pic.

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dadsbee said:
Did you remove the upper bump stop before you lowered the LCA and backed off the TB adjuster?? If not, probably why there was still load on the bar..
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No load on the bar. I had the back of the bar out past the rear/cross member and the bar was still stuck in the control arm.
 
If you used a ton of grease on it during the rebuild it is possible that you hydrolocked the hex in the socket. The fact that the hex fits the socket now without issue would also support that. If it was side loaded it may have wedged in there too. You’d probably see a witness mark in the socket from where the bar got stuck though. With a hydrolock there’d be nothing to see.

It looks like you’ve got poly LCA bushings, so the arm sliding back off the pin is normal once you loosened or removed the strut rod. You can do the same exact thing with a rubber bushing, despite misconceptions some people have the rubber bushing doesn’t hold your control arm on.


Regardless of the bushing type the LCA is located by the strut rod, not the bushing. It’s literally why the strut rod is there, to keep the LCA from moving around under braking or to a lesser extent acceleration. It’s why other makes call them brake reaction rods.

As far as putting it back together, if it’s a poly bushing the bushing is probably fine, they’re much tougher than rubber. I’d be more worried about all the beating and pulling on the control arm and torsion bar. Did you hit the torsion bar adjusting lever? Or was that paint knocked off from the lever hitting the frame? If it was the latter that could have been the source of the wedge on the bar.
 
I assume you took ALL load off the T bar. Did you by any chance try pushing down on the control arm while trying to remove. That will help get rid of any side load. It has always worked for me in the past.
 
72bluNblu said:
If you used a ton of grease on it during the rebuild it is possible that you hydrolocked the hex in the socket. The fact that the hex fits the socket now without issue would also support that. If it was side loaded it may have wedged in there too. You’d probably see a witness mark in the socket from where the bar got stuck though. With a hydrolock there’d be nothing to see.

It looks like you’ve got poly LCA bushings, so the arm sliding back off the pin is normal once you loosened or removed the strut rod. You can do the same exact thing with a rubber bushing, despite misconceptions some people have the rubber bushing doesn’t hold your control arm on.


Regardless of the bushing type the LCA is located by the strut rod, not the bushing. It’s literally why the strut rod is there, to keep the LCA from moving around under braking or to a lesser extent acceleration. It’s why other makes call them brake reaction rods.

As far as putting it back together, if it’s a poly bushing the bushing is probably fine, they’re much tougher than rubber. I’d be more worried about all the beating and pulling on the control arm and torsion bar. Did you hit the torsion bar adjusting lever? Or was that paint knocked off from the lever hitting the frame? If it was the latter that could have been the source of the wedge on the bar.
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I did that on mine I had too much grease in it and the bar wouldn't go in I had to take it back apart and clean the grease out of the hex hole
 
72bluNblu said:
I assume you took ALL load off the T bar. Did you by any chance try pushing down on the control arm while trying to remove. That will help get rid of any side load. It has always worked for me in the past.
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Correct. All load was off the bar. My only pry area was on the inner part of the control arm. Maybe this added side load to the CA but it sure wasn't noticeable. I also tried without prying and by pushing down on the CA.I

I'll be working on disassembly today and tomorrow so will investigate further. I was up in the air about dropping the K, engine and trans. Never did it this way. Wishing I went out the top now. My Magnum engine build has ben fighting me every inch of the way. Why would I think this would go any different? Nothing to do but keep on keepin on.
 
72bluNblu said:
Did you hit the torsion bar adjusting lever? Or was that paint knocked off from the lever hitting the frame? If it was the latter that could have been the source of the wedge on the bar.
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square

Did not hit adjusting lever. I applied force adjacent to the t-bar socket figuring this was the strongest area and in line with the bar.
 
JoePole1 said:
square

Did not hit adjusting lever. I applied force adjacent to the t-bar socket figuring this was the strongest area and in line with the bar.
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Ok. That is the strongest part, and shouldn't have contributed to any side loading. Based on the missing paint on the top of the adjusting lever I'd take a look at the frame and see if there's any witness marks there or any indication that the adjusting lever hit the frame. What size/brand torsion bars do you have? The appear to be powdercoated, if the hex ends are powdercoated that can cause them to stick in the sockets.
 
Thanks blu. I am using PST 1.03 bars in a 72 Satellite. I had a good look at everything today but no smoking gun. I removed the lower control arm so I could press the pivot shaft back in. The bar ends are painted so I'll strip them before reinstalling. Will also clean everything up and lightly grease the bar ends. Should I also grease the pivot shaft before pressing back in? I have some synthetic bearing grease.
 
JoePole1 said:
Thanks blu. I am using PST 1.03 bars in a 72 Satellite. I had a good look at everything today but no smoking gun. I removed the lower control arm so I could press the pivot shaft back in. The bar ends are painted so I'll strip them before reinstalling. Will also clean everything up and lightly grease the bar ends. Should I also grease the pivot shaft before pressing back in? I have some synthetic bearing grease.
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Sounds good! Yeah with the PST's that shouldn't be an issue unless the clocking is wrong, but with stock LCA's it's nearly impossible to clock them incorrectly. The powdercoating can definitely be an issue, I know on the Firm Feel bars it's caused me issues so I always strip it. Light grease is what you want, don't pack any grease in the socket or you run the risk of hydrolock. It's a small risk but it can happen.

A little grease on the pivot shaft is fine, they don't spin but a little grease will help keep moisture/rust at bay.
 
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