A833 no shift

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It sounds to me like the disc is in backwards.
 
I've read all the responses, thanks!

Yes the car creeps a little in 2nd gear with clutch in.
Yes it goes into 4th gear with pressure on the stick when engine is shut off.

Update:
I'll remove the trans and clutch soon. It could be a couple weeks though as I'm collecting parts, manpower and putting a plan together. Not the eaiest thing to do lying on a hunk of cardboard and the car is kept at a friend's house away from my home where I have access to all my tools. Luckily I have a couple car buddies and my gearhead son to lend a hand.

I injured my primary (right) hand last Fall and have an appointment with a surgeon this Tuesday. I'd like to get this done before the surgery. Kind of funny, now that I'm converting this one to floor shift and going auto to manual on my 68, I used to joke about developing a leg problem and not being able to operate a clutch. Ha, ironic that right now it actually hurts to grip a 4 speed ball.

Things I'm going to do:
I've decided to go back to a stock size clutch for the time being. (No turbo in the near future) I bought a very nice LUK clutch from Rockauto. I can tell the 10" HD in there now is straining the stock linkage. For example, the ball end pivot bracket that attaches to the frame rail is a stamping retained with 3 small screws. If that develops into a problem, I have the parts in my stash to change to the 67 and up through-the-rail ball stud mount but that ain't happening now.

The FSM states when using the pilot bushing installation tool that it automatically sizes the ID of the bushing when the tool is removed. I can find no reference to what that dimension should be. None! I seem to recall measuring the new uninstalled bushing last fall at .754. Assuming that the interference fit is .002 it could very well be that it had an installed ID of .752. It was so tight last summer that the 3 speed trans would not go back in when prepping for Carlisle. Everything was good except it would just go clunk, about an inch short, because the input shaft was butting against the end of the bushing. I figured out that the plastic installation tool was not accurate enough so we eventually just snugged up the pressure plate screws so we had a little float in the disc. I just measured the new plastic installation tool included with the LUK and it's about .732 diameter, almost .020 under the actual input shaft diameter.

Later, when installing the 4 speed, I ground a more generous chamber on the end of the input shaft and using a Dremel, increased the lead-in chamber on the bushing. We also used the actual 3 speed trans (only 60 lbs) as the installation tool without the BH in place. I have a real install tool on order from Brewers made from a junk input shaft.

This new LUK kit came with 2 new bushings and they measure .752.

List of things to do:
1. Check clutch departure again. I have the pedal free play about 1/4-1/2" now. Last fall, departure was .050.
2. Measure installed bushing ID. Perhaps ream it larger.
3. Measure bore runout again. Last fall it was .0075. (FSM spec is .008) The smallest offset dowels available are .007.
4. Check BH face runout.
5. Check crank end play. It was well within spec when I completely rebuilt the engine 10,000 miles ago. I'm well aware of this as I try to start the car in neutral with the clutch out, especially on a cold start, to minimize thrust bearing wear.

That's it for now. Here's a pic of the present linkage geometry. Looks pretty good except the lower arm could be tweaked about 1/2" to the center of the car to square up the clutch fork push rod.

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SOLVED!

I though I should post an update so here goes:

In one of my earlier posts (#19) I asked if anyone had the early crank register I.D. handy and got no response. I was thinking of searching out a roller bearing I might be able to use which after 50 years in Mech Engineering is no big deal. Then I noticed a sticky had been added at the top of this forum about modifying the Magnum style beating. As soon as I saw that, I ordered that roller bearing.

Meanwhile, I ordered a standard size 9-1/4" LUK clutch.(regular 3 finger not a diaphragm) The DC 10" was the one common part carried over from the car when I first got it on the road 5 yrs and 10,000 miles ago.

I put the car in the air with my new Quick Jack to remove the tranny. Working alone, I was able to drop the trans using an adaptor that replaced the cup on my old floor jack. (someone gave that to me more than 30 yrs ago but it was just too bulky to ever make use of) One of the large angle irons was more of a hindrance than a help so I took that off and cut a saddle out of a hunk of 2X4. Between the angle adjuster and floor jack it all worked out great.

I met my son at his place of business on a Saturday and using a lathe, we turned the O.D of the roller bearing down to 1.656.

I again carefully checked the BH bore runout with a dial indicator and was just over the limit of .008 TIR. I didn't have any offset dowels so I ordered a pair from Summit for store pickup. Jumped in my everyday driver and was back in a couple hours. Of course the diameter of the Summit offset dowels is .500 and Mopars require .496 so chucked them in a drill press and got them down to .496 with sandpaper. Checking at 3, 6, 9 and 12:00, I fiddled with those until I had the 3-6 measurement at .001 and the 3-9 at .005. I installed the roller bearing and clutch on Thursday after setting the dowels

Another important thing was I purchased a cut down input shaft from Brewers because the molded plastic disc aligning tool included with new clutches are way too sloppy when the pilot bushing is tight. In my case, the I.D. of the roller bearing. That really gave a precise fit allowing the disc to be well centered. The 10,000 mile T.O. bearing was dry and slightly rough so hopefully the new LUK part is better.

I was trying to get the car back on the road because I had pre-entered in the Junction Auto show on Sunday, 6-12. A car buddy came over Friday morning and we had the trans in by noon. He left right after it was in. He's OK for being a Chevy guy.

An interesting discovery was that the link between the Z-bar lower arm and clutch fork was now 3/4" too long. Trying to solve my problem, I had previously lengthened it after I got back from the /6 race in Clay City, KY 3 yrs ago. I also lengthened the 3-4 shift link by 2 turns.

So working alone, I put everything else together quitting at 9 PM Friday, a 12 hour day. I find it best to stop when tired to avoid accidents or screw-ups. That left only the shifter handle and boot to be installed which I did Sunday morning. I couldn't work Saturday because I had to attend a funeral that was 200 miles away.

So the moment of truth.
With the car on the ground, I started the engine in neutral, put the clutch in, and it went right into first! In fact any gear I wanted! I took a quick spin around the block and then came back to change clothes and headed for the car show at 10 AM, about 55 miles away. I found during the day that the shifting got even better as I put miles on it.

It's now been about 3 weeks and 400 miles so it's ready for the 320 mile trip to Carlisle in less than 2 weeks. I really think the HD 10" "taxi" clutch was a big part of the problem. Even after cutting the Z-bar and re-indexing the arm angles, and lengthening the clutch pedal from 5-1/4" to 6" to get more clutch departure, I only measured .050 clutch departure. And it was stiff so I worried the frame mount would give out. I tried to measure the new 9-1/4" clutch departure but the wavy spring in the disc made it difficult so up against the clock, I just buttoned it up and I'm calling it good.

This weekend is the Rock-n-race at Dragway 42 so I'll most likely make some fun runs. Previous best was 18.51 with the 3 speed column shift. Running that day really started to escalate the shifting issue. It just would not shift at higher rpms as the day went on, probably only 4000!

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Glad you got it sorted out. I'm not so sure about some of this new stuff. I have all old original stuff and it just works just as it should. And I power shift it on occasion.
 
Wouldn't a dragging clutch cause all sorts of grinding noise when trying to shift ?

I currently am having an issue down shifting to 1st unless I am rolling.
 
Wouldn't a dragging clutch cause all sorts of grinding noise when trying to shift ?
Not unless the brass is worn out, and you over-power it.

I currently am having an issue down shifting to 1st unless I am rolling.
This is caused by the input gear train failing to come into synchronization; usually because the clutch "is dragging". The most likely culprit is insufficient clutch departure; but other causes could be; a warped or fractured disc, BH misalignment, the input gear is stuck/sticking in the back of the crank, the mainshaft is is not rotating freely in the back of the input gear, or any gear is is binding on the mainshaft.
If you are downshifting under closed throttle, and the engine has returned to idle, you are asking the brass ring to speed the gear train up to driveshaft rpm. The brass ring can only do so much. The usual fix for this is to blip the throttle to get the rpm up closer to driveshaft rpm, then in a perfect world, the brass can do it's job.
 
Wouldn't a dragging clutch cause all sorts of grinding noise when trying to shift ?
I currently am having an issue down shifting to 1st unless I am rolling.

I put a few hundred miles on the car after the 4 speed swap late last season and some of the issues were:

Could not put trans into gear with stationary car and engine running.

Clutch seemed too stiff for what it was.

VERY difficult to shift once underway.

Strange whirring noises with clutch depressed at a stop and got worse as it heated up. Could gave been throw out bearing or input shaft grinding against pilot bushing.

Sometimes at a long traffic light I resorted to turning engine off and restarting at green. Just like modern cars that do it to conserve fuel

Observations Now:

This was my first 833 rebuild and it seems to be fine which is a relief. Very quiet and solid. Could not really tell with all the problems before.

Still using Driven GL 4 lube. (Joe Gibbs Racing) This on the recommendation of Paul Cangialosi of 5speeds.com and author of the book "How to Rebuild and Modify High Performance Manual Transmissions". I'm not going to be driving it at low temps.

Extending the pedal geometry from 5-1/4" to 6" to improve clutch departure; looking at the pedal geometry may have limited effect. But Herb McCandless swears by it so it's staying

The Shifter could be better. The early 64-65 Hurst Competition Plus used a different mechanism than the later, more common ones. I tried a later improved Hurst Comp Plus but if interfered with the floor hump. This early correct shifter angles the tower forward to bettet fit the early A's. In 1966 Chrysler changed to the more common oval cutout floor hump and coffin style console. Cars like the 64-65 GTO's also had the same shifter design without the angle. Something to look at over the winter.

I made sure to lube the mechanical joints at reassembly.
 
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