Some suspension and brake questions

-
R

RevboxRyan

Member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
17
Reaction score
6
Location
Wisconsin
So I bought a 74 Dart Slant 6 car it has 5x4 pattern and drum all the way around. Didn't larger pattern start in 73 or 74? And 73-76 have different ball joints correct? And as far as brakes and larger pattern upgrade I've search and FMJ body cars are donors for brakes but are rare around here in yards. ANY C B or E body stuff work? Have to change spindles to fit newer brake parts? What else have people used for brake upgrades and large lug pattern? Not really into Wilwood setup if it's custom stuff only available through them or a dealer especially with current supply issues. Is there any aftermarket K frame that uses torsion bars and rack and pinion. Seems every rack one is coil over. Looking for under hood room Basically. Cars getting mini tubbed sub frame connectors and boxes. Going to be a street strip car. I'm a 72-93 truck guy so don't know that much about the A bodys.

20220423_184951.jpg


20220423_184941.jpg
 
DoctorDiff Drivetrain Components Is your friend for brake conversion parts.

And short Anwser, t-bars and rack and pinion don’t work together. There’s been a few K frames posted for sale this past week or so. Many a car race with the stock style front suspension.
 
The 73/ later which came with some?all? drum brakes had small upper joints and small bolt pattern. So to convert, to late A/F/M/J brakes you need 73/ later upper arms and ball joints off a disc brake car. Lower arms can be re-used.
 
67Dart273 said:
The 73/ later which came with some?all? drum brakes had small upper joints and small bolt pattern. So to convert, to late A/F/M/J brakes you need 73/ later upper arms and ball joints off a disc brake car. Lower arms can be re-used.
Click to expand...

Not true. The 73+ drum cars had the small 5x4" bolt pattern, but they had larger upper ball joints (starting no later than November of '72). So the UCA's do not need to be changed. All you need to do is swap the spindle.

You can check the TSB from the factory at Hamtramck historical https://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/TSBs/1973/05-03-73C page1.jpg, the 73+ front drums were all 10" and used a different spindle than the earlier 10" drums.
05-03-73C page1.jpg


Only /6 cars from 73+ got front drums and the SBP. And in January of '76 everything went disk up front and BBP.

To convert the OP's car he should check to make sure his car has the later style drum brakes and therefore the larger upper ball joint UCA's, but if he does all he needs is the 73+ spindles and disks from DoctorDiff.
 
There is a Craig's list add here in Northern CO for a full set of 5x4.5 single piston front a body suspension parts.

Upper control arms to lower controls arms, from lug studs to splash shield.
 
All small 4" bolt pattern cars had small ball joints. Some 73's were 4" bolt pattern with drums. all 74 and newer were 4 1/2" bolt circle. After buying and stripping many of these cars that is what I have seen.
 
Oldmanmopar said:
All small 4" bolt pattern cars had small ball joints. Some 73's were 4" bolt pattern with drums. all 74 and newer were 4 1/2" bolt circle. After buying and stripping many of these cars that is what I have seen.
Click to expand...

Totally wrong.

Just read the TSB. The factory themselves gave the information, not me. November ish '72, so a few months into the '73 model year, the 10" drum brakes went to a B-body style drum. Those drums used the larger '73+ wheel bearings AND the larger upper ball joints. The 5x4" pattern was retained on ALL drum/drum cars until the middle of the '76 model year, there were never any A-bodies with front drums with the 5x4.5" pattern. From 73+ only /6 cars came with 4 wheel drums, the v8 cars came with the 73+ disks and had the larger 5x4.5" pattern.

So, 73+ /6 car with front drums = 5x4", 73+ V8 car with front disks = 5x4.5". And some /6 cars got front disks too, they were an option and some packages (like towing, or a rear sure grip) would add front disks too.

The OP's '74 will have large ball joints and the small bolt pattern. They should look like this and have the same casting number
[SOLD] - 1973-76 10" Drum Brake Spindles (LBJ) 3402738

s-l1600-34-jpg.jpg


The picture is from @cudak888 's recent sale thread.

Or cleaned up from @67Dart440GT [SOLD] - 10 inch front spindles
20210205_194007.jpg


or maybe @moparmat2000 or @BergmanAutoCraft can comment about the later drum spindles having the LBJ from their thread [WANTED] - 73 -76 A BODY DRUM SPINDLES

The 73+ drum spindles were pretty sought after for awhile because of the LBJ and because there were several aftermarket brake upgrades that only worked with the 73+ A-body spindles, particularly a Viper front brake kit from @DoctorDiff
 
72bluNblu said:
Totally wrong.

Just read the TSB. The factory themselves gave the information, not me. November ish '72, so a few months into the '73 model year, the 10" drum brakes went to a B-body style drum. Those drums used the larger '73+ wheel bearings AND the larger upper ball joints. The 5x4" pattern was retained on ALL drum/drum cars until the middle of the '76 model year, there were never any A-bodies with front drums with the 5x4.5" pattern. From 73+ only /6 cars came with 4 wheel drums, the v8 cars came with the 73+ disks and had the larger 5x4.5" pattern.

So, 73+ /6 car with front drums = 5x4", 73+ V8 car with front disks = 5x4.5". And some /6 cars got front disks too, they were an option and some packages (like towing, or a rear sure grip) would add front disks too.

The OP's '74 will have large ball joints and the small bolt pattern. They should look like this and have the same casting number
[SOLD] - 1973-76 10" Drum Brake Spindles (LBJ) 3402738

View attachment 1715922910

The picture is from @cudak888 's recent sale thread.

Or cleaned up from @67Dart440GT [SOLD] - 10 inch front spindles
View attachment 1715922908

or maybe @moparmat2000 or @BergmanAutoCraft can comment about the later drum spindles having the LBJ from their thread [WANTED] - 73 -76 A BODY DRUM SPINDLES

The 73+ drum spindles were pretty sought after for awhile because of the LBJ and because there were several aftermarket brake upgrades that only worked with the 73+ A-body spindles, particularly a Viper front brake kit from @DoctorDiff
Click to expand...

I have another set of the 10 inch drum spindles on my Demon 340. I'm going to convert to disc's but they have the large upper ball joint control arms already so saves me some cash in the swap.
 
67Dart440GT said:
I have another set of the 10 inch drum spindles on my Demon 340. I'm going to convert to disc's but they have the large upper ball joint control arms already so saves me some cash in the swap.
Click to expand...

Nice! So someone swapped your Demon to the later drums to go 5x4.5" probably?
 
72bluNblu said:
Totally wrong.

Just read the TSB. The factory themselves gave the information, not me. November ish '72, so a few months into the '73 model year, the 10" drum brakes went to a B-body style drum. Those drums used the larger '73+ wheel bearings AND the larger upper ball joints. The 5x4" pattern was retained on ALL drum/drum cars until the middle of the '76 model year, there were never any A-bodies with front drums with the 5x4.5" pattern. From 73+ only /6 cars came with 4 wheel drums, the v8 cars came with the 73+ disks and had the larger 5x4.5" pattern.

So, 73+ /6 car with front drums = 5x4", 73+ V8 car with front disks = 5x4.5". And some /6 cars got front disks too, they were an option and some packages (like towing, or a rear sure grip) would add front disks too.

The OP's '74 will have large ball joints and the small bolt pattern. They should look like this and have the same casting number
[SOLD] - 1973-76 10" Drum Brake Spindles (LBJ) 3402738

View attachment 1715922910

The picture is from @cudak888 's recent sale thread.

Or cleaned up from @67Dart440GT [SOLD] - 10 inch front spindles
View attachment 1715922908

or maybe @moparmat2000 or @BergmanAutoCraft can comment about the later drum spindles having the LBJ from their thread [WANTED] - 73 -76 A BODY DRUM SPINDLES

The 73+ drum spindles were pretty sought after for awhile because of the LBJ and because there were several aftermarket brake upgrades that only worked with the 73+ A-body spindles, particularly a Viper front brake kit from @DoctorDiff
Click to expand...

I would like to see 4" bolt circle drums and bearings on that large bearing spindle. And then install the 4" small registered wheel over the hub with the large bearing.

Anyway. How can I be wrong for saying what I said I have seen over the years of parting many cars? Were you filming what I saw for to you to tell me I'm wrong? You may have a different opinion or info.

But maybe you should just state what you think you know instead of always telling members they are wrong. That is the problem with you . No one can ever have a different opinion without an attack from you . How the hell do you know what I have seen stripping 100's of A-bodies.

I would love to see a large bearing hub with a 4" bolt circle wheel bolted on. Show me one.

Every post on suspensions you always think you know everything. There are times you don't. I learn something new on this site everyday. Not once from you.

You always make others look bad to make your self look good.

Why not just state what you have to say and leave others comments out. Let the people decide who is right and wrong.

How would you like if every time you say something my first comment would be . Your Wrong! Even if it is just an opinion.

That is the only problem I have with some of your statements is always telling people they are wrong. Who are you God?
 
Last edited:
Oldmanmopar said:
I would like to see 4" bolt circle drums and bearings on that large bearing spindle. And then install the 4" small registered wheel over the hub with the large bearing.

Anyway. How can I be wrong for saying what I said I have seen over the years of parting many cars? Were you filming what I saw for to you to tell me I'm wrong? You may have a different opinion or info.

But maybe you should just state what you think you know instead of always telling members they are wrong. That is the problem with you . No one can ever have a different opinion without an attack from you . How the hell do you know what I have seen stripping 100's of A-bodies.

I would love to see a large bearing hub with a 4" bolt circle wheel bolted on. Show me one.
Click to expand...

Maybe @67Dart440GT can take a picture of his hubs, because that's exactly what he has. I don't currently have a set to take a picture of.

And it's literally right in that factory TSB-

“The new 10 x2-1/2 front drum brake is basically the brake which was used on the Satellite models in 1972 and prior years, with three major changes:
  1. The drum has been redesigned to fit a new, 4" bolt circle hub.
  2. The support plate center hole has been enlarged to clear the larger 1973 spindle
  3. A new 1-1/8" bore wheel cylinder will be used for improved brake balance."
As for the rest of it, I don't know how you've seen something that the factory never made, ie, an A-body 10" drum assembly with a 5x4.5" pattern that uses a spindle that takes a small upper ball joint. Because the factory never made that. So if you want me to let you claim you've seen such a thing, great. But they were never made, so, that says more about what you remember than anything else.

And I'm not "attacking" you. I posted information that contradicts what you said. You are mistaken. You're the one that takes it as a personal blow to your ego. I used to think that all the 73+ cars were 5x4.5" too, I've posted as much before because my '74 was 5x4.5" (/6 car with a disk brake option). But then a few members with SBP, drum brake 73+ cars corrected me, because all the A-bodies with drum brakes kept the 5x4" pattern until front drum brakes were phased out in January of '76. And I was happy to do some more research, realize I was wrong, and stop putting out bad information.

I'm just trying to help the OP. If he has a '74 drum brake car with the 5x4" pattern then assuming that brake assembly hasn't been changed he should have the later, large upper ball joint UCA's. Which means he doesn't have to buy new UCA's, and if he buys parts to fit SBJ UCA's he'll have to return them, because they won't fit.
 
Most all the drums on the large spindles 74 and newer I saw were finned and Large 4 1/2 bolt pattern. That is just what I saw and I saw many. I threw every one in the scrap metal bin back then. They were as useless then as they are today. I would only keep disc set ups. I would also save the 9' setups for drag cars. They were used due to weight and less resistance.

Today 9' spindles are sought after for using Wilwood race brakes. I went with Strange race brakes because they use LBP disc spindles and I wanted to use 2" lowering spindles. Because we moved the rails up in the rear. I have all the different spindles so I pretty much know what fits what. What I don't have is all the different year manuals . Most but not all . I do have the interchange books from the salvage yard yet.

100_0027.JPG


110.JPG


150.JPG


117.JPG


100_0028.JPG
 
Oldmanmopar said:
All small 4" bolt pattern cars had small ball joints. Some 73's were 4" bolt pattern with drums. all 74 and newer were 4 1/2" bolt circle. After buying and stripping many of these cars that is what I have seen.
Click to expand...
Wrong. I pulled a set of BBJ UCAs off a 74 valiant SBP drum brake car in a local junky. It had the larger finned drums. It was a slant sux car that was never apart. In fact I was told this tidbit by a guy who runs a local mopar wrecking yard. He is really into these cars. He told me look for the 10," finned drums. He was right. I bought a second set off somebody else on fakebook. 75 duster SBP with 10" finned drums. The guy damn near gave em away. I asked his price. $20 plus shipping. Umm ok, where do I send the PayPal. LoL
 
Last edited:
Oldmanmopar said:
Most all the drums on the large spindles 74 and newer I saw were finned and Large 4 1/2 bolt pattern. That is just what I saw and I saw many. I threw every one in the scrap metal bin back then. They were as useless then as they are today. I would only keep disc set ups. I would also save the 9' setups for drag cars. They were used due to weight and less resistance.

Today 9' spindles are sought after for using Wilwood race brakes. I went with Strange race brakes because they use LBP disc spindles and I wanted to use 2" lowering spindles. Because we moved the rails up in the rear. I have all the different spindles so I pretty much know what fits what. What I don't have is all the different year manuals . Most but not all . I do have the interchange books from the salvage yard yet.

View attachment 1715922942

View attachment 1715922943

View attachment 1715922948

View attachment 1715922950

View attachment 1715922951
Click to expand...

You’re the only one that ever saw them, because all the A-body front drum cars were 5x4” from the factory. If they were 5x4.5” they would have been converted with B-body brakes, and those would also require large upper ball joints.

And what you’re saying is you have absolutely no way to show us what you saw? Why don't you show us a drum spindle that uses an A17 inner wheel bearing and has a taper for a small ball joint.

And there's no need to muddy the waters, 9" drums and spindles have nothing to do with this conversation.

moparmat2000 said:
Wrong. I pulled a set of BBJ UCAs off a 74 valiant SBP drum brake car in a local junky. It had the larger finned drums. It was a slant sux car that was never apart. I fact I was told this tidbit by a guy who runs a local mopar wrecking yard. He is really into these cars. He told me look for the 10," finned drums. He was right. I bought a second set off somebody else on fakebook. 75 duster SBP with 10" finned drums. The guy damn near gave em away. I asked his price. $20 plus shipping. Umm ok, where do I send the PayPal. LoL
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Do you still have a set of the 73+ LBJ drum spindles or hubs? Because this is gonna continue until someone posts measurements showing the facts that most people already know. We're gonna need a factory drum hub with a 5x4" pattern that uses an A17 inner wheel bearing.
 
Well I'll have to take a look at the parts and check numbers when I get home from work. This is the only picture I have of the drum/spindle assembly.

20220424_112209.jpg
 
72bluNblu said:
You’re the only one that ever saw them, because all the A-body front drum cars were 5x4” from the factory.

Exactly.

Do you still have a set of the 73+ LBJ drum spindles or hubs? Because this is gonna continue until someone posts measurements showing the facts that most people already know. We're gonna need a factory drum hub with a 5x4" pattern that uses an A17 inner wheel bearing.
Click to expand...

Nope. I went for the UCAs off the 74 valiant knowing what they were, took the rest off and pitched it into the car. The easiest way if you have a K772 balljoint is measure the distance across it at the wrench flats where the ball joint socket goes, then measure the one your comparing it to.
 
RevboxRyan said:
Well I'll have to take a look at the parts and check numbers when I get home from work. This is the only picture I have of the drum/spindle assembly.

View attachment 1715922965
Click to expand...
Put a ruler across them studs, and post the measurement. I'm betting those are SBP drums like the ones I pulled off that 74 valiant to get at the BBJ UCAs. Reason I pulled all that **** off was I also wanted the LCAs too.i could go to the junkyard with my 6" machinests scale to get a pic. But I already know they are SBP junk.
 
For whatever it is worth here are some pics. This set up was on my 71 Demon and my 67 Dart. Obviously upgraded at one point. Both 4.5 with big upper joints and 10 inch drums.

20211017_200044.jpg
 
Post some wheel spec photos too if you will.....center hole diameter especially. This is directed to RevboxRyan
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top