K-Member / Rack & Pinion Steering Suggestions

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Mopar Virgin

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Hi All ... Looking at the next element of my '68 Bcuda Convertible build plans. We are goign to replace the front-end with a contemporary system. Not married to anything specific and have only looked a little a QA1. Will likely be donning the car with slightly larger wheels and lowering the car's stance 1-2". Would appreciate people's input (i.e. suggestions/avoids/benefits/cons) concerning what you know and have experienced ... thx as always !
 
One question… Why?

you can get a nice handling ride with stock style suspension. Upgrade the T-bars and springs, add sway bars and shocks front and rear. Replace the bushing and a new/rebuilt steering box.

Now if you were building a ground pounding race car, sure, but from seeing your other posts, to me it’s a waste of money, but to each their own.

these guys are in Vancouver, they put out a nice product but is on the expensive side compared to the others..
Firm Feel Inc. Steering and Suspension for Chrysler Plymouth & Dodge
 
I am a proponent of both but like @Scody21 asks, why?

What are you trying to accomplish? Even if you are looking at doing some more hardcore driving a torsion bar setup can be made to perform right along with the coilover deals.

If you don’t want to put j-bars in, connecting the frame rails with the firewall, or weld n sub-frame connectors then I highly suggest you stay with a torsion bar set up.

Doing a coilover front suspension without added support could tweak the frame and you’ll have gap issues on your doors and fenders.
 
I have the QA1 K-member, stock UCAs and LCAs, PST 1.03 torsion bars, and PST' manual steering box. The car has not been on the road yet, but I've really enjoyed all of the room using the aftermarket K-member. I have super comp headers and a Kevko kickout pan. You can definitely get the stock K-member to fit your needs, but quite frankly, I work 60-70hrs a week so I didnt have the time to modify mine. I just wanted to bolt it in and move on to the next task.

If you go with QA1, one thing I will recommend is to use the spacer washer from a modern Dodge Ram steering rack to center the K-member into the car. The flat washers that QA1 sends with their kit doesnt necessarily center the K-member to sit square when you're bolting it in. The spacer is a perfect fit inside of the upright tube and it keeps everything aligned. I've also heard that it'll tighten up the suspension when going around turns. No personal experience with that yet though

Edit: Part # is 68401387AA. You'll need 2 of them. They are not cheap.

Spacer looks like this:

Resized-Screenshot-20220104-170451-Duck-Duck-Go.jpg



Good luck with whatever direction you choose.
 
Last edited:
Mopar Virgin said:
Hi All ... Looking at the next element of my '68 Bcuda Convertible build plans. We are goign to replace the front-end with a contemporary system. Not married to anything specific and have only looked a little a QA1. Will likely be donning the car with slightly larger wheels and lowering the car's stance 1-2". Would appreciate people's input (i.e. suggestions/avoids/benefits/cons) concerning what you know and have experienced ... thx as always !
Click to expand...

First, let me dispel the notion of a "contemporary system". All of the coil over conversion systems out there are Mustang II based. All of them. The MII was introduced with the Pinto in 1971, and designed before that. So no, it is not a "contemporary system". At best it's maybe 10 years newer of a design than the A-body torsion bar set up. But really an unequal length A arm suspension is MUCH older than that, a coil over is just a spring and a shock, putting them together in a single package doesn't really change anything.

The suspension geometry offered by the coil over conversions is not better than the torsion bar system. Both have advantages and disadvantages, but neither is dramatically better than the other. Which one works best for you will depend on the application.

The only thing the torsion bar suspension can't do that is accomplished by a coil over conversion is add a rack and pinion steering, and free up some header space. Everything else that can be done with a coil over system can be done with a torsion bar system. The rack and pinion is not a performance improvement either. A rebuilt or new worm/ball steering chuck will perform just as well, you just have the on center spot because of the design. It's just a difference in feel. The header thing is kinda moot in my book. Unless you pull your engine or headers all the time, it doesn't matter. And buying cheap headers after you bought a $5k suspension conversion isn't some great savings, you just spent your money in a different place.

You can lower a torsion bar suspension 2" with the right parts (larger torsion bars, modified bump stops). You don't need drop spindles and it actually improves suspension geometry.

So, it comes down to "why" and how are you going to use the car. What are your build plans?
 
One good thing, in regard to headers, with a torsion bar-less car is that you can run a nice big 1-7/8” header primary without trouble.

And that goes along with need and application. Why would you need such a big primary? 550-600 hp. If you have that then you may be counting pounds, you may be looking at needing quicker spring rate changes (coil-overs win over t-bars for ease and speed of changes), you will already be stiffening the sub-frame and tying the front frame rails to the firewall.
If you aren’t doing ALL these things I would advise you stay with a torsion bar system.
If you want a serious handling t-bar setup I highly suggest you hot tank and seam weld your k-frame. Chrysler was criminal in the shoddiness of their k-frame welds.
 
@go-fish I’m wondering what kind of sicko is going to drop 550-600 HP in a street convert? That’s a death trap in the making…. :lol: To each their own I guess…

Think this guy is building a convertible…
That’s why I asked why….
 
I looked into a rear rack and pinion adaptation from a Geo or cloud car (Cirrus, Stratus, Breeze) but you will have to mount it where the center link is now. Make brackets to mount to anything close and then you got a very strange steering shaft angle at the firewall as it will almost have to make a 90 (2x45) to get down to the rack splines. That and the custom rod ends and the most likely increased turn radius made me give up.
 
Hey everyone thanks for the thoughts so far. I've posted into other forums that would have revealed the "WHY" answers and the "WHAT" am I trying to end-up with, but didn't provide that context here. SOooo .... The current plan is a complete RestoMod of the car using the Slant6, likely with a TorqueStorm supercharger and Holly Sniper EFI, and any block modifications to gain cubic inches. Just I want this to end-up a good highway cruiser with a little kick at the lights, and my wife wants to use this as a weekly driver during the winter in Tucson.

Concerning the K-Member intent, it's just really about having a low-sway, tight handling car (i'm use to my A4 Audi), support for coil-over, lowering the 1-2", adding front disk brakes, having room to add A/C and either pump or electric power steering.

My friend who's built tons of non-MOPAR cars has used K-Members and recommend it, but I'm not married to the idea if it doesn't make sense. Just as @Just Send It mentioned in his post, I don't have a ton of time to modify a stock car for parity versus a new/contemporary non-OEM replacement that is better (i.e. I do have a reasonable enough bank account to buy-up where I can save time and get an "oh-ah" factor).

Hope that helps bring some more context to the ask I posted.
 
You’d be really surprised how well a tuned stock suspension on these A-bodies handles and cruises down the road. Some of the stuff the other guys talked about with header and oil pan clearance are a non issue with the slant 6.

I’m at almost 400 for HP and TQ (soon to be more) in my V8 duster with FirmFeel suspension which is stock style. I’ve built the car as a corner carving, ground pounder, I could auto X at some point. I’d have no problem making the almost 300 mile round trip to Portland and back, except gas is stupid right now.

These cars will never handle like your Audi. These are 50 year of old cars. Even if you throw a bunch of money at it to make a resto mod. At that point you’d be better off doing a body swap…
 
Mopar Virgin said:
Hope that helps bring some more context to the ask I posted.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the background. If you aren’t sold on one way or the other and aren’t opposed to just laying down a credit card or cash to get something going quick it may be worth the effort in finding a front end shop or resto shop and getting a quote for a complete rebuild and some 1.03” torsion bars and a Firm Feel or P-S-T complete rebuild kit.
Compare that to your favorite flavor of coil-over suspension PLUS the stiffening I’ve already mentioned. With the coil-over deal you will be welding or paying a welder to add stiffening if you don’t want to tweak the snot out of your car body. That’s the hidden cost of coil-over suspensions.
 
Mopar Virgin said:
Hi All ... Looking at the next element of my '68 Bcuda Convertible build plans. We are goign to replace the front-end with a contemporary system. Not married to anything specific and have only looked a little a QA1. Will likely be donning the car with slightly larger wheels and lowering the car's stance 1-2". Would appreciate people's input (i.e. suggestions/avoids/benefits/cons) concerning what you know and have experienced ... thx as always !
Click to expand...

So you've heard from a number of members who suggested staying with the factory setup.

I'm one who decided to go with an aftermarket upgrade. RMS to be specific.

I spent a lot of money restomodding my 68 Barracuda and the front Alterkation and rear Street-lynx suspension was by far the best upgrade I did. You will be absolutely amazed at the way your car will feel and handle after installing it.

I'm not disagreeing that the factory setup can be made to work well but it takes a lot of mods to do so. Boxing lower control arms, upgrading tie-rods , removing , gussetting and welding up the K-Member, modifying or replacing the steering box for a firmer feel, experimenting with swaybars, torsion bars and shocks to get the performance / feel you want. I , much like you don't have the kind of time to do that any more but much props to the members here who have the tech know-how , time and patience to sort it out.

I have never seen a comment on here from anyone who wasn't happy with converting to a rack and pinion based suspension setup like those offered by RMS or HDK.
 
AAndrews said:
I spent a lot of money restomodding my 68 Barracuda and the front Alterkation and rear Street-lynx suspension was by far the best upgrade I did.
Click to expand...

I too have an Alter-K-tion and triangulated 4-link. I can also vouch for the attributes it like you I extensively upgraded the whole car and I have 18x9 and 19x11.5’s with big Wilwoods on my E-body ‘cuda. D1-SC Procharged 408 putting down 650hp/ 600 lbft, a TKO 600, and Strange S60. Need to freshen the motor and install a T56.

The thing is that I suggest an OEM-based deal if NOT extensively modifying the whole car. I think with the horsepower levels even a centrifugally supercharged /6 and leaf springs in the rear would be a little “overdoing” the front suspension.

I’m wondering why the @Mopar Virgin , being from Tuscon, isn’t going to use The Supercharger Store in Tuscon. Practically neighbors.
 
AAndrews said:
I'm not disagreeing that the factory setup can be made to work well but it takes a lot of mods to do so. Boxing lower control arms, upgrading tie-rods , removing , gussetting and welding up the K-Member, modifying or replacing the steering box for a firmer feel, experimenting with swaybars, torsion bars and shocks to get the performance / feel you want. I , much like you don't have the kind of time to do that any more but much props to the members here who have the tech know-how , time and patience to sort it out.
Click to expand...

The problem is this is bad information, it's simply not true. You don't have to weld up the stock K if you don't want to or don't have the ability, you can just buy a QA1 K frame. You don't need to box the lower control arms, you can buy tubular LCA's. You don't need to rebuild or modify the steering box, you can just buy a new one. And you don't have to "experiment" with a sway bar, you can just buy one of several that are proven to work.

The thing that really irritates me is the idea that modifying the torsion bar suspension is somehow different than bolting on an RMS. An RMS is just modified PINTO suspension. And nowadays you can just buy and bolt on everything you need to upgrade the torsion bar suspension.


Upgraded torsion bar suspension, 3/30/22 pricing. This list has the QA1 K frame and sway bar added, no welding, all bolt on.
Front :

QA1 tubular K frame - $722.65
1971 DODGE DART QA1 52313 QA1 Mopar K-Members | Summit Racing

QA1 Adjustable strut bars - $243.95
1974 DODGE DART QA1 52311 QA1 Dynamic Adjustable Strut Bars | Summit Racing

QA1 LCA’s - $476.95
1974 DODGE DART QA1 52307 QA1 Mopar Control Arms | Summit Racing

QA1 sway bar - $256.25
1971 DODGE DART QA1 52861 QA1 Sway Bars | Summit Racing

QA1 tie rod sleeves- $68.95
1974 DODGE DART QA1 52325 QA1 Heavy-Duty Tie Rod Sleeves | Summit Racing

Proforged tie rod ends- $174.52 (all 4)
1974 DODGE DART Proforged Chassis Parts 104-10157 Proforged Tie Rod Ends | Summit Racing
1974 DODGE DART Proforged Chassis Parts 104-10156 Proforged Tie Rod Ends | Summit Racing

Proforged lower ball joint (driver)- $47.59
1974 DODGE DART Proforged Chassis Parts 101-10129 Proforged Ball Joints | Summit Racing

Proforged lower ball joint (passenger)- $43.63
1974 DODGE DART Proforged Chassis Parts 101-10128 Proforged Ball Joints | Summit Racing

Viking double adjustable shocks-$338
Viking Performance Stock Mount Front Shocks

Proforged upper ball joints- $39.60 (both included)
1974 DODGE DART Proforged Chassis Parts 101-10126 Proforged Ball Joints | Summit Racing

PST manual steering box - $339.00
Manual Steering Box 16:1

Moog pitman arm (manual) - $49.99
1974 DODGE DART Moog Chassis Parts K7075 Moog Replacement Pitman Arms | Summit Racing

Moog idler - $33.99
1974 DODGE DART Moog Chassis Parts K7086 Moog Replacement Idler Arms | Summit Racing

Bergman Autocraft SPC UCA’s (1st gen)- $375
BAC SPC Upper Control Arms - Bergman Auto Craft

Bergman Autocraft 1.08” torsion bars- $319
Mopar A Body Torsion Bar Set 1.08" - Bergman Auto Craft

Proforged polyurethane control arm shaft kit w/bushings- $110.95
1974 DODGE DART Proforged Chassis Parts 120-10003 Proforged Control Arm Shaft Kits | Summit Racing

Proforged Camber bolts - $34.32 (2 sets)
1974 DODGE DART Proforged Chassis Parts 120-10009 Proforged Camber Bolts | Summit Racing

DoctorDiff 73+ disk spindles- $155
Mopar Reproduction Disc Brake Knuckles for A/B/E Bodies

Total: $3,879.13 (manual to manual)
Savings of $160.87 vs AlterK w/manual steering (and no sway bar on that AlterK, so it would be more if you add it)

Or add power steering-
Borgeson box from BAC $889
Borgeson Steering Box Kit Large Sector - Bergman Auto Craft

Total: $4,429.13 (power steering, pump and lines not included just like the RMS)
Savings of $310.87 vs AlterK with power rack

And here's AlterK pricing with links so you can check it, all above board.

Street/Strip RMS AlterK (manual rack, no sway bar, no engine mounts)- $4,040
AlterKtion Coil-Over System, Street/Strip, 67-76 A-body, No Mounts

Street/Handling RMS AlterK (power rack, sway bar, no engine mounts)- $4,740
AlterKtion Coil-Over System, Street/Handling, 67-76 A-body, No Mounts
 
dano said:
^And that's if you go "balls out" buying all new stuff.
Click to expand...

Exactly. You can do it a lot cheaper and still have a more adjustable suspension than what you get with the RMS or other coil over conversions.

My point is that the coil over conversions are just modified MII suspension, there's nothing inherently better with them, it's not really any different than replacing the OE torsion bar suspension parts with the stuff I posted above. If you had a 1974 Mustang II and bought all tubular control arms, replaced the struts with coil overs and ran an aftermarket rack it would be the same thing on a different crossmember.

You start with this ('77 MII)
s-l1600 (2).jpg



Add these...
hdt-ca-112-m_xl.jpg


qa1-ms303-08700_xl.jpg


hli-18551_xl.jpg


Suddenly you have something that looks more like this...
Screen Shot 2022-06-04 at 11.19.05 PM.png


Design a custom crossmember, re-design the UCA's so they bolt onto an A-body and now you've got this
handling6_1_2_1_1_1_1.jpg



Is that oversimplifying? Yes! Making an MII suspension bolt right onto an A-body requires a lot of thought and engineering, I'm not trying to take that away from RMS or HDK or anyone else making these conversions. But it is also not magic, and the final result is still based on that rusty, OE MII suspension in the first picture that looks a lot like the stuff everyone wants to replace on their A-body.

As for handling like an Audi, well yeah actually, you can do that with torsion bars. The Hotchkis Taxi, which is a 4-door Satellite, bested the 3 series BMW's that TireRack uses to test tires. Same driver, same tires, same track- the 4 door Satellite put down faster times with torsion bars. Two very different driving experiences no doubt, but, if you're looking at performance and lap times it can be done.



The Hotchkis Challenger put down a better skid pad G than a modern SRT-8, and was really close in the slalom and other categories
2010 Dodge Challenger SRT-8 vs. 1970 Dodge Challenger | Edmunds
 
72bluNblu said:
The problem is this is bad information, it's simply not true. You don't have to weld up the stock K if you don't want to or don't have the ability, you can just buy a QA1 K frame. You don't need to box the lower control arms, you can buy tubular LCA's. You don't need to rebuild or modify the steering box, you can just buy a new one. And you don't have to "experiment" with a sway bar, you can just buy one of several that are proven to work.

The thing that really irritates me is the idea that modifying the torsion bar suspension is somehow different than bolting on an RMS. An RMS is just modified PINTO suspension. And nowadays you can just buy and bolt on everything you need to upgrade the torsion bar suspension.


Upgraded torsion bar suspension, 3/30/22 pricing. This list has the QA1 K frame and sway bar added, no welding, all bolt on.
Front :

QA1 tubular K frame - $722.65
1971 DODGE DART QA1 52313 QA1 Mopar K-Members | Summit Racing

QA1 Adjustable strut bars - $243.95
1974 DODGE DART QA1 52311 QA1 Dynamic Adjustable Strut Bars | Summit Racing

QA1 LCA’s - $476.95
1974 DODGE DART QA1 52307 QA1 Mopar Control Arms | Summit Racing

QA1 sway bar - $256.25
1971 DODGE DART QA1 52861 QA1 Sway Bars | Summit Racing

QA1 tie rod sleeves- $68.95
1974 DODGE DART QA1 52325 QA1 Heavy-Duty Tie Rod Sleeves | Summit Racing

Proforged tie rod ends- $174.52 (all 4)
1974 DODGE DART Proforged Chassis Parts 104-10157 Proforged Tie Rod Ends | Summit Racing
1974 DODGE DART Proforged Chassis Parts 104-10156 Proforged Tie Rod Ends | Summit Racing

Proforged lower ball joint (driver)- $47.59
1974 DODGE DART Proforged Chassis Parts 101-10129 Proforged Ball Joints | Summit Racing

Proforged lower ball joint (passenger)- $43.63
1974 DODGE DART Proforged Chassis Parts 101-10128 Proforged Ball Joints | Summit Racing

Viking double adjustable shocks-$338
Viking Performance Stock Mount Front Shocks

Proforged upper ball joints- $39.60 (both included)
1974 DODGE DART Proforged Chassis Parts 101-10126 Proforged Ball Joints | Summit Racing

PST manual steering box - $339.00
Manual Steering Box 16:1

Moog pitman arm (manual) - $49.99
1974 DODGE DART Moog Chassis Parts K7075 Moog Replacement Pitman Arms | Summit Racing

Moog idler - $33.99
1974 DODGE DART Moog Chassis Parts K7086 Moog Replacement Idler Arms | Summit Racing

Bergman Autocraft SPC UCA’s (1st gen)- $375
BAC SPC Upper Control Arms - Bergman Auto Craft

Bergman Autocraft 1.08” torsion bars- $319
Mopar A Body Torsion Bar Set 1.08" - Bergman Auto Craft

Proforged polyurethane control arm shaft kit w/bushings- $110.95
1974 DODGE DART Proforged Chassis Parts 120-10003 Proforged Control Arm Shaft Kits | Summit Racing

Proforged Camber bolts - $34.32 (2 sets)
1974 DODGE DART Proforged Chassis Parts 120-10009 Proforged Camber Bolts | Summit Racing

DoctorDiff 73+ disk spindles- $155
Mopar Reproduction Disc Brake Knuckles for A/B/E Bodies

Total: $3,879.13 (manual to manual)
Savings of $160.87 vs AlterK w/manual steering (and no sway bar on that AlterK, so it would be more if you add it)

Or add power steering-
Borgeson box from BAC $889
Borgeson Steering Box Kit Large Sector - Bergman Auto Craft

Total: $4,429.13 (power steering, pump and lines not included just like the RMS)
Savings of $310.87 vs AlterK with power rack

And here's AlterK pricing with links so you can check it, all above board.

Street/Strip RMS AlterK (manual rack, no sway bar, no engine mounts)- $4,040
AlterKtion Coil-Over System, Street/Strip, 67-76 A-body, No Mounts

Street/Handling RMS AlterK (power rack, sway bar, no engine mounts)- $4,740
AlterKtion Coil-Over System, Street/Handling, 67-76 A-body, No Mounts
Click to expand...


Not to start a **** show here but its not bad information.

Here's what the op asked for.

"...Would appreciate people's input (i.e. suggestions/avoids/benefits/cons) concerning what you know and have experienced ... thx as always ! " ...

I just provided what I did personally, my experience with an alternate suspension choice and, some of the mods I know of necessary to improve the factory setup. These are well documented in Mopar Action Magazine articles and on Firm-feels website.
I'm not against doing these mods if that's what you want to do and that's where your budget and interests are.

He asked for experience with these systems, I provided mine.

RMS Suspension Systems flat out work and do exactly what Bill Reilly , the owner/supplier says they do.

I have no doubt that HDK's systems and Denny's claims are also accurate.

Your setup works, so does mine.

Here's my "Pinto/Mustang II system" .

RMS Alter-Kation front suspension with power steering and 11' wilwood brakes. Very high quality, very well engineered and fantastic service from Bill, the owner.

img_1207-jpg.jpg




dscn5070-jpg.jpg



Street-Lynx rear suspension,

dscn4826-jpg.jpg
 
AAndrews said:
Not to start a **** show here but its not bad information.

Here's what the op asked for.

"...Would appreciate people's input (i.e. suggestions/avoids/benefits/cons) concerning what you know and have experienced ... thx as always ! " ...

I just provided what I did personally, my experience with an alternate suspension choice and, some of the mods I know of necessary to improve the factory setup. These are well documented in Mopar Action Magazine articles and on Firm-feels website.
I'm not against doing these mods if that's what you want to do and that's where your budget and interests are.

He asked for experience with these systems, I provided mine.

RMS Suspension Systems flat out work and do exactly what Bill Reilly , the owner/supplier says they do.

I have no doubt that HDK's systems and Denny's claims are also accurate.

Your setup works, so does mine.

Here's my "Pinto/Mustang II system" .

RMS Alter-Kation front suspension with power steering and 11' wilwood brakes. Very high quality, very well engineered and fantastic service from Bill, the owner.

View attachment 1715937562



View attachment 1715937563


Street-Lynx rear suspension,

View attachment 1715937564
Click to expand...

Hey if people want to run modified MII suspension that's their business. But that's what it is, it's not a "contemporary system", it's just MII suspension that's been modified by an aftermarket company to fit an A-body. Just because you didn't personally modify or bolt on each individual part does not mean that they aren't modifications. And Bill at RMS and Denny at HDK are great guys and provide great service, no argument there.

My issue was with your description of the upgraded torsion bar suspension, not your experience with the RMS. You claim all these "modifications" are necessary, like it's somehow more difficult or less tested to upgrade the torsion bar suspension, somehow "experimental". It's not. There are great companies with long, proven track records that provide the upgraded aftermarket parts for the torsion bar system. And unlike even 10 years ago, there are now many choices for aftermarket upgrades for the torsion bar system that all come from great companies. There are proven examples of Hotchkis' system on the road, I posted one above. And IMHO their system leaves a few things out.

Does an RMS AlterKation work great? They do! But it's just modified MII suspension. It's not magic, and it's not somehow better or "more modern" to run updated and heavily modified MII suspension than it is to run updated/modified A-body suspension. Both have pros and cons, like any suspension system.

As far as people with coil over conversions complaining, no, you don't see it much. But almost all of them are basing their opinions on going from worn out original suspension to an AlterK or HDK or whatever. Most of them are not comparing an AlterK to a fully rebuilt and updated torsion bar system, literally the only factory suspension parts on my car are the spindles. If someone installed a factory MII out of a junk yard on their A-body without replacing anything I don't think you'd hear such great reviews.

But if you compare this
2017-01-09_17-02-56.jpg

to this
handling6_1_2_1_1_1_1-jpg.jpg


You don't get the night and day improvements that everyone with an RMS or HDK claims. I would wager most people riding in a car with these set ups, back to back, wouldn't notice any difference at all as long as the cars were set up with similar wheel rates.
 
72bluNblu said:
Hey if people want to run modified MII suspension that's their business. But that's what it is, it's not a "contemporary system", it's just MII suspension that's been modified by an aftermarket company to fit an A-body. Just because you didn't personally modify or bolt on each individual part does not mean that they aren't modifications. And Bill at RMS and Denny at HDK are great guys and provide great service, no argument there.

My issue was with your description of the upgraded torsion bar suspension, not your experience with the RMS. You claim all these "modifications" are necessary, like it's somehow more difficult or less tested to upgrade the torsion bar suspension, somehow "experimental". It's not. There are great companies with long, proven track records that provide the upgraded aftermarket parts for the torsion bar system. And unlike even 10 years ago, there are now many choices for aftermarket upgrades for the torsion bar system that all come from great companies. There are proven examples of Hotchkis' system on the road, I posted one above. And IMHO their system leaves a few things out.

Does an RMS AlterKation work great? They do! But it's just modified MII suspension. It's not magic, and it's not somehow better or "more modern" to run updated and heavily modified MII suspension than it is to run updated/modified A-body suspension. Both have pros and cons, like any suspension system.

As far as people with coil over conversions complaining, no, you don't see it much. But almost all of them are basing their opinions on going from worn out original suspension to an AlterK or HDK or whatever. Most of them are not comparing an AlterK to a fully rebuilt and updated torsion bar system, literally the only factory suspension parts on my car are the spindles. If someone installed a factory MII out of a junk yard on their A-body without replacing anything I don't think you'd hear such great reviews.

But if you compare this
View attachment 1715937620
to this
View attachment 1715937624

You don't get the night and day improvements that everyone with an RMS or HDK claims. I would wager most people riding in a car with these set ups, back to back, wouldn't notice any difference at all as long as the cars were set up with similar wheel rates.
Click to expand...


You said.. " As far as people with coil over conversions complaining, no, you don't see it much. But almost all of them are basing their opinions on going from worn out original suspension to an AlterK or HDK or whatever. Most of them are not comparing an AlterK to a fully rebuilt and updated torsion bar systems".

I would definitely agree with this as I fit that description. When I replaced my suspension I researched options to replace everything with a rack and pinion based system . I could care less if it is based on a Mustang II / Pinto setup. Everything I read and heard about RMS was positive. I just did not want to use a factory based system any more.

You and others on here have certainly demonstrated that the factory components can be made to work well. Good for you guys and well done!

I just wanted to try something different. The op wanted to know what my experience was and I provided it.

Totally happy with my choice and I'm enjoying my car more than I ever have.
 
For some, there is no comparison of the feel 60's / 70's steering box to the precise steering of the modern rack and pinion. I don't care whose aftermarket steering box you buy or re-build. Add the built-in increased caster (at least with the HDK), additional room and weight savings, all in a bolt-in package and you get a hot-rodders dream.

what makes HDK a better choice?
1) HDK exclusive upper shock mount / chromoly support hoops that allow much longer coil over / spring combinations giving a far less harsh ride. Additionally, this feature keeps the wheels / tires tucked in almost 1" closer per side.
2) one HDK for all your popular Mopar engine needs. 6cyl, all small blocks, B/RB. Stage II (66-72) or Gen III Hemi's....same K. Just change out the HDK exclusive engine mounts.
3) designed and engineered utilizing street friendly automotive tie rod ends (vs heim ends) and off the shelf (non-modified) spindles which keeps the turning radius where it should be.

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I always admire the time people put into these posts.

Bergman Auto Craft, your site sponsor and contributor offers more parts for the stock style front suspension than ANYONE on the market. I can say its great there are many options on the market. Anyone interested in finding out why we feel our parts are the right choice, feel free to call. Good old phone is the best. 516.384.6438
 
Thank you everyone!!! Amazing input and data points to learn from. Given this is my first-ever project car, I'm trying to keep this simple and learn from it, not getting in over my head. What I've learned from this is "contemporary" is a relative term, so in effect, what I'm aim for is to "upgrade" the front-end. With both those thoughts in mind, I think I'm down to researching now three turnkey solutions -- QA1, RMS & HDK. @72bluNblu your upgraded torsion bar suspension sounds amazing and I appreciate the itemized list you listed out. That path just looks too complicated for my first-ever project car to take-on. This car is gonna blow my budget, but I've saved-up to do this and continue working at this point in my life to spend on "stuff", given I've now covered my retirement nut. Hoping to post my project in Photos Garage forum soon and keep it updated. This week I finish stripping it down and pulling the drivetrain so we can get it to the body shop for a bare-metal blasting and onward to epoxy it.
 
I've always wondered if we offered a K, plated, ready to bolt in with all our parts if it would be less complicated to choose a vendor.
 
BergmanAutoCraft said:
I've always wondered if we offered a K, plated, ready to bolt in with all our parts if it would be less complicated to choose a vendor.
Click to expand...

Well, at least one customer, the OP, is leaning that way. I also, wanted a complete bolt on solution as Hemi-Denny suggested. Given the number of cars being restored and using an aftermarket soultion for steering/suspension, I don't think you can go wrong.
 
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