Need help from the suspension gurus here!

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Les Gibson

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Greetings from Maine where if you ain't freezin, you're getting eaten alive by black flies!

Need some help concerning what is wrong with my suspension.

Over the winter I removed all of the OEM front suspension, torsion bars and K-member. Replaced it with a tubular K-member, upper and lower control arms, new rack & pinion and AFCO single adjustable coil-over shocks. All components installed very easily. Did a level and string alignment (which seems very close). Set the ride height to what I had with the stock stuff and the AFCOs to their recommended starting adjustment point. Went to the track with some great expectations and...... not what I expected.

The problem is I am getting no front end lift and spinning off the line where before I made the change the car did great weight transfer and hooked good. My rear suspension is a standard ladder bar/coil-over set up but has ancient Comp Engineering single adjustable coil overs which still function as they should. These were set to full loose (adjuster knob full counter-clockwise on the 'clicks') as that seemed to be what the car liked with the stock front. I didn't change anything on the rear suspension. I have progressively set the AFCO's to full loose on the adjustment knob with no change to front rise or weight transfer. This past weekend at Winterport Dragway a friend of mine watched the car launch off the line during my first two time runs, and suggested a change to my burnout routine, which helped a lot. My 60' times got closer to being what they were before the change with a 1.46, and three 1.48 in a row. With the stock front suspension my 60' times were usually between 1.39 to 1.42. My ET/MPH (1/8) got closer to normal with a 6.46 at 106. My friend said the rear tires would hook initially when I released the transbrake, but then spin for about half a car length and then hook again, but with no front lift.

Suspension stuff is like voodoo magic to me. Does anyone have any insight as to what the issue might be? I double checked that everything in the front suspension moves freely and that nothing is binding up. My car is a 72 Dart, weighs 2880 with me in it. Bored/stroked 360 (383 CI). 14:1 comp, W2 Econo heads with some mild race prep, comp cams solid roller cam (gross lift .654 intake, .655 exhaust, duration at .050 intake 269, exhaust 276, installed at 106 intake centerline) Eldebrock W2 Victor, Holley 2 circuit 1050 Dominator, 9 inch Dynamic converter with approx 5K stall, 727 with reverse manual valve body with brake, D60 with 5:13 gear, launching off the brake at 3800.
 
If you tightened all of the suspension bolts on the front with the suspension hanging free, that could be your issue.
 
I believe I did the final bolt tightening after everything was installed, but it's worth checking again.
Hopefully with the weight of the suspension on the ground. Otherwise, that can cause binding and can contribute greatly to your issue. Good luck with it!
 
Spring rates from the torsion bars to the coil overs can be very different. You may have lost a bunch of stored energy in the front suspension. What spring rate coils and what bars?
 
Couple of questions:

What thickness torsion bars did you have on it prior to going with coil-overs?

*Have you calculated the c/o spring pressures to match the prior torsion bars? There is a formula floating around with how to do this, but I cannot find the dang article.

Do you have access to a set of corner scales?

As RRR mentioned, full weight on final tightening will make a huge difference. I use the 14" Race Ramps so I can squeeze my fat *** underneath the car to make adjustments.
 
I would make sure there is no bind in the front suspension again, and make sure that there is extension on the front shocks at ride height. Check and see how many inches of travel is in the front suspension. I would like probably 4” or 5”. I always have limiters on my car. My old 70 Dart was a small block with a 727 trans. Did not like limiting the front suspension travel, or tightening the front shocks. Always had the front shocks as loose as possible.
 
You have 10 or 12 inch tall coils on the car now? Also what spring rates are you running? A video would help TREMENDOUSLY for these type problems and can be as simple as a friend using his cell phone while at a 45 degree up to a 90 degree from the starting line......anything but directly behind the car in my opinion. What shocks are you currently using front and back?
 
How much frontend travel do you have now?

Yes, video is your friend, slow mo preferred. The lack of travel on aftermarket front suspensions has kept me from buying one, although I think I have enough power now that I don't need all the pitch rotation. Something you may need to try is to soften the compression on the rear shocks, it will help the car rotate.
 
Spring rates from the torsion bars to the coil overs can be very different. You may have lost a bunch of stored energy in the front suspension. What spring rate coils and what bars?
I'll have to go unpack the bars to get the number off of them. The coil springs are QA1 10H1250 is the number on the springs.
 
Couple of questions:

What thickness torsion bars did you have on it prior to going with coil-overs?

*Have you calculated the c/o spring pressures to match the prior torsion bars? There is a formula floating around with how to do this, but I cannot find the dang article.

Do you have access to a set of corner scales?

As RRR mentioned, full weight on final tightening will make a huge difference. I use the 14" Race Ramps so I can squeeze my fat *** underneath the car to make adjustments.
I will have the numbers off of the torsion bars shortly. The coil over springs are QA1 10H1250 is the number on the springs. Unfortunately I don't have access to corner scales.
 
You have 10 or 12 inch tall coils on the car now? Also what spring rates are you running? A video would help TREMENDOUSLY for these type problems and can be as simple as a friend using his cell phone while at a 45 degree up to a 90 degree from the starting line......anything but directly behind the car in my opinion. What shocks are you currently using front and back?
The front shocks were supplied with the kit. AFCO single adjustable. Front springs are QA1 10H1250, and were supplied with the shocks. Rear shocks are old Comp Engineering single adjustable that were on the car when I bought it. No idea how old they are but they still function as they should. No idea what springs are on them as there are no markings on them.
As I stated earlier my friend who was watching the car launch said that the rear tires would grab on the initial hit, then spin for about half a car length then grab and go. He said there was very minimal front end rise.
 
How much frontend travel do you have now?

Yes, video is your friend, slow mo preferred. The lack of travel on aftermarket front suspensions has kept me from buying one, although I think I have enough power now that I don't need all the pitch rotation. Something you may need to try is to soften the compression on the rear shocks, it will help the car rotate.
Very minimal front rise on launch is what my friend said. I can't notice any from the driver's seat. The rear shocks are single adjustable and initially I had them set to full soft as that was what the car liked with the stock front suspension. On Sunday I had them at 5 clicks from full soft and that seemed to help.
 
I don't know if these will help but here are some photos of the suspension. Maybe someone will see something that doesn't seem right..
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Is there a reason you went with 10" springs? I'd think 12"-ers would give you more travel and help free up the front end some. Looks like there's plenty of room on those shocks for 12" coil springs.
 
Is there a reason you went with 10" springs? I'd think 12"-ers would give you more travel and help free up the front end some. Looks like there's plenty of room on those shocks for 12" coil springs.
I didn't choose them. They were supplied with the kit. I was never asked about springs, and I wouldn't have known what to specify anyway. Like I said suspension setup is voodoo magic to me.
 
I didn't choose them. They were supplied with the kit. I was never asked about springs, and I wouldn't have known what to specify anyway. Like I said suspension setup is voodoo magic to me.
Isn't this one of Tory's front ends?
 
I don't know if these will help but here are some photos of the suspension. Maybe someone will see something that doesn't seem right..View attachment 1715942231 View attachment 1715942232 View attachment 1715942233 View attachment 1715942235 View attachment 1715942236 View attachment 1715942237
I don't know if it is contributing or would fix your problem but there is no way on Gods green earth that I wouldn't be running double adjustable shocks all the way around and at a minimum at least on the back......if the tire sticks then spins or unloads and rehooks again my first thought......obviously haven't seen a video.....but by your description is that the compression is too soft in the rear and is letting the tire rebound after the hit.
 
Very minimal front rise on launch is what my friend said. I can't notice any from the driver's seat. The rear shocks are single adjustable and initially I had them set to full soft as that was what the car liked with the stock front suspension. On Sunday I had them at 5 clicks from full soft and that seemed to help.

With the car sitting measure from the wheel well lip to the top of the wheel. Then jack the front of car up until the tires come off the floor and measure again. This will tell how much travel you have, I'll be surprised if it's more than 4".
 
I don't know if it is contributing or would fix your problem but there is no way on Gods green earth that I wouldn't be running double adjustable shocks all the way around and at a minimum at least on the back......if the tire sticks then spins or unloads and rehooks again my first thought......obviously haven't seen a video.....but by your description is that the compression is too soft in the rear and is letting the tire rebound after the hit.
I understand the recommendation for double adjustable on all four corners. I'll probably look into that as this winters project. But for now, with the Competition Engineering single adjustables on the rear, does the adjustment affect compression or rebound?
 
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