Need help from the suspension gurus here!

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So Menscer wanted you to go stiffer than 250? They just want the spring to hold the car up to ride height with no energy in it. Yeah, there is a 9.4’s second ZL1 Camaro running in the class that has a good 500-600 hp on me and about the same nose weight. He’s running a stiff front spring, he doesn’t need any help getting it to transfer and the rate of transfer is within his shock tuning window. Each car is so individual.

what size and kind of rear tire is he running _??
 
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what size and kind of rear tire is he running _??
Whatever came on the car from the factory. This is the car as it runs.
 
View attachment 1715942838
Whatever came on the car from the factory. This is the car as it runs.
Let's not forget the electronically controlled timing retard that is a HUGE reason why those cars are able to get out of the hole and make the impressive passes that they do.....Please don't take away that I am not impressed with those cars because I am but just like in all other forms of heads up racing there are lots more going on than meets the average eye and that always has and always will include breaking of the rules.
 
This suspension tuning is very confusing to me. So based upon what I'm seeing from comments on the 250# springs versus the torsion bars that were on the car, are the 250 springs not enough? too much? What are the recommendations for the spring I should be using?
 
This suspension tuning is very confusing to me. So based upon what I'm seeing from comments on the 250# springs versus the torsion bars that were on the car, are the 250 springs not enough? too much? What are the recommendations for the spring I should be using?
You need to call a place like Menscer or Afco or equivalent......they will ask details about your car and help with suggesting a proper spring from there.......most replies you will get on here will be opinions and most of them aren't worth much either. You also need some real rear shocks too....throw those other ones in the trash.
 
This suspension tuning is very confusing to me. So based upon what I'm seeing from comments on the 250# springs versus the torsion bars that were on the car, are the 250 springs not enough? too much? What are the recommendations for the spring I should be using?
I explained what John at Menscers told me for MY CAR and the reasons for what he wanted me to run but my car and your car are probably different which is why I said just pick up the phone.
 
Absolutely! MANY things going on to get it to launch. He’s still low 1.5’s in the 60’ in a car that is 3300 lbs? He is definitely not using all the power at the hit. He is using enough to top out the suspension with very little stored energy in the front suspension. To date these cars don’t/can’t really “carry” the front tire. They lift them, but not really carry them. The question being. How high do you really want to lift the tire. Wasted energy up instead of out. I NEED the energy to get the nose up in a quick enough fashion to be useful.
 
Absolutely! MANY things going on to get it to launch. He’s still low 1.5’s in the 60’ in a car that is 3300 lbs? He is definitely not using all the power at the hit. He is using enough to top out the suspension with very little stored energy in the front suspension. To date these cars don’t/can’t really “carry” the front tire. They lift them, but not really carry them. The question being. How high do you really want to lift the tire. Wasted energy up instead of out. I NEED the energy to get the nose up in a quick enough fashion to be useful.
You hit on a very important topic that I think is being promoted in this thread but with the shock technology available today you no longer need to " yank the front " to transfer weight to the rear tires and keep the tire planted after the hit......you see it in your class with the fastest top tier cars and also with most of the very fast radial cars as they leave almost dead flat.....just stick and bye bye......the OP needs some good rear shocks for one and also needs to talk to one of the top shock and spring companies tech support to get the right components for his car's specifics. I'm guessing on your own car which being a 340 car if I remember correctly and obviously doesn't have near the power of the 427 and Hemi guys and you don't have any kind of launch control and so you still have to make it work for a lack of better terms "the old way" with weight transfer.
 
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This suspension tuning is very confusing to me. So based upon what I'm seeing from comments on the 250# springs versus the torsion bars that were on the car, are the 250 springs not enough? too much? What are the recommendations for the spring I should be using?
I am not sure I read it but from your avatar picture i'm guessing you are running a slick of some sort.....a radial is faster and more stable at speed if you aren't already using one and the drag radial has been proven to be very very fast and stable and the adjustments and setup would be different as well.
 
I am not sure I read it but from your avatar picture i'm guessing you are running a slick of some sort.....a radial is faster and more stable at speed if you aren't already using one and the drag radial has been proven to be very very fast and stable and the adjustments and setup would be different as well.
I have heard that information, unfortunately I just put a new pair of Hoosier 30.5 X 13.5 X 15 slicks on the car, so I won't be making the change any time soon.
 
As suggested, calling someone who does this for a living is always a good idea. Front springs can be confusing, because on the face of it people think that a heavier spring has more energy. They don’t, they take more energy to compress. Which means they release that energy over a shorter distance. The car in the past, I have to assume launched well, didn’t spin and topped the suspension out in a reasonable fashion. Now it doesn’t transfer weight. The power in the car is the same? The nose is actually lighter. The difference is you have more spring rate/stiffer springs in the front. Your car, like my car needs a bit of help from the springs. Look at the springs like this, making up numbers. Say the car needs 500 lbs of spring force to hold the car up. With your spring it would compress 2”. 250lbs/inch x 2= 500 lbs. After the nose rises 2”, the spring is not pushing up anymore. Now the torsion bar, to get to 500 lbs you need to “compress” the bar 5”. 100lbs/inch x5 =500 lbs. the torsion bar is pushing up until the nose rises 5”. You should still talk to professional, because there has also been a lot of changes to the geometry of the front suspension and changed from torsion bar to coil etc…..
 
Absolutely! MANY things going on to get it to launch. He’s still low 1.5’s in the 60’ in a car that is 3300 lbs? He is definitely not using all the power at the hit. He is using enough to top out the suspension with very little stored energy in the front suspension. To date these cars don’t/can’t really “carry” the front tire. They lift them, but not really carry them. The question being. How high do you really want to lift the tire. Wasted energy up instead of out. I NEED the energy to get the nose up in a quick enough fashion to be useful.

My Dart has been 1.34 60 and most of the time will not pick up the front tires. The track and prep make a huge difference. Over the years I've been to a handful of radial races (200 mph 1/8 mile speeds) and all the tracks had one thing in common, the prep was great. Pull your shoes off great.

My buddy and I took my car to Jackson TN to do some shock testing a few years ago. I was struggling to get ahold of my local track and shock adjustments really weren't making any difference. He suggest we go to Jackson because of the track prep. Long story short, what we found was my rear set up was good (for Jackson), but the more we tightened the extension on the fronts, the better the 60' got. We finally ended up on full tight. My front shocks had been revalved for more or less a no prep track. I learned a lot that day, one thing was that the sidewalls on my 325 radials were shot, even with 21 psi it was wadding up the drivers side tire.
 
My Dart has been 1.34 60 and most of the time will not pick up the front tires. The track and prep make a huge difference. Over the years I've been to a handful of radial races (200 mph 1/8 mile speeds) and all the tracks had one thing in common, the prep was great. Pull your shoes off great.

My buddy and I took my car to Jackson TN to do some shock testing a few years ago. I was struggling to get ahold of my local track and shock adjustments really weren't making any difference. He suggest we go to Jackson because of the track prep. Long story short, what we found was my rear set up was good (for Jackson), but the more we tightened the extension on the fronts, the better the 60' got. We finally ended up on full tight. My front shocks had been revalved for more or less a no prep track. I learned a lot that day, one thing was that the sidewalls on my 325 radials were shot, even with 21 psi it was wadding up the drivers side tire.
This is another good point that gets lost and not sure it's relevant to this post but it is true that the sidewall is the most important aspect of a drag radial.....whatever "tread" one thinks they have or wear bar holes per say aren't nowhere near as important as protecting the sidewall. This is one of the reasons why guys will run larger width rims, run bead locks etc. all in an effort to keep the sidewall stiff......you don't want to be crushing the sidewall as it will prematurely ruin the tire.....again really good shocks come into play here. Thanks for bringing that up....
 
Spoke with AFCO tech support about spring recommendations for my car. I've got to go get a front end weight for my Dart and then call them back as without that number it's just guess work.
 
7/10/22 update: After speaking with AFCO and Tory, Tory gave me a recommended setup for both front and rear suspension. Put those changes in and went to Winterport Dragway to make some test hits in preparation for next weekend's Bracket Bash there. The Old Goat is back where it belongs! Car is hooking, 60 foot times are back and ET/MPH is back to what the car has normally run in the 1/8th! Big shout out to Tory Shellehamer for the great suspension kit and the technical advice.
 
What springs did you end up with? Glad you’re hookin and bookin now:thumbsup:
Same springs, AFCO rep said they were correct for my application. He said I could go to a 12 inch spring but the 10 should work.
Tory basically had me change the center of gravity of the chassis with just minor adjustments to front and rear ride height and baseline shock adjustment. Worked great!
 
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