Solid roller lifters...

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Miszny

Miszny

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Hi

I am looking for solid roller lifters that are optimal performance vs price in your experience!
Cam spec is:
263/268@.050", 108+4, 675/675 lift

Springs planned for this will be 720 open and 260 seat there will be nitrous added so its on the high side.

Block is not bushed so my 1st guess was 829-16 comp, I know they are not oil pressure fed but in my view its weak spring what kills these lifters, when someone runs this kind of cam on the street, he beats on it anyway. I never used oil fed lifters ;-)
This said, I talked to Howards and they recommended their oil pressure fed 91735 race max lifters which are bit more expensive than comp, I was also looking at Crower 66233 lifters that have oversized wheel non pressure fed lifters...
There is also BAM lifter which is pressure fed and has oversized wheel pn 2016-16. Also Lunati lifter seems to be recommended by them for all solid cams they have and its pn 72421 and this is the most affordale of all, but it looks like Morel 4730 which is not recommended by Morel for the spring pressure I want.
So I narrowed it down to:
Lunati 72421 440$
Comp 829 606$
Howards 91735 677$
Crower 722$
BAM 835$
I'm also worried that pressure fed lifter will take some of the idle in gear oil pressure which is down because of HS rockers already, just between 25 and 30lbs on my mechanical gauge. What are your experiences with this?

HELP

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Last edited:
Might be worth reading:

What size Oil Restrictor

I’m waiting for a report from a customer who’s trying some BAM lifters in an unbushed OE block.

There are a few positions where the small feed hole for the pushrod oiling starts to get exposed when the lifter is at full lift.
He’s going to let me know how bad that situation is when he’s able to prime the oil system.
 
PRH said:
Might be worth reading:

What size Oil Restrictor

I’m waiting for a report from a customer who’s trying some BAM lifters in an unbushed OE block.

There are a few positions where the small feed hole for the pushrod oiling starts to get exposed when the lifter is at full lift.
He’s going to let me know how bad that situation is when he’s able to prime the oil system.
Click to expand...
Yes all these "features" worry me, but stil trying to get the most for the money. Comp is the safest here, Howards unknown and Crower tempting. Bam would be getting it all butI dont want to fight with oil pressure.
I use .060" restrictor using Holley jets and I know this thread :)
 
Nice ride w/everyone looking at it real hard!

LMAO! Go MoPar, go Warsaw!
 
In my opinion you either run Comp Cams or you go all out and buy Isky. I run Comp Cams because I am not running ultra high spring pressures. I would just get the 829's and worry no more. If you have a fat wallet buy the Isky lifters.

Tom
 
I ran solid body crowers on a .750 roller, no complaints. But street driving was almost non-existent.
Unbushed 1963 max wedge block.
 
PROSTOCKTOM said:
In my opinion you either run Comp Cams or you go all out and buy Isky. I run Comp Cams because I am not running ultra high spring pressures. I would just get the 829's and worry no more. If you have a fat wallet buy the Isky lifters.

Tom
Click to expand...

Isky Red Zone? Or was that someone else?
 
If you drive it on the street, whatever you get, make sure get pressurized oil to the rollers.
 
Crower also has 66233H-16, which is identical to the 66233-16 .812 roller wheel lifter but is equipped with high pressure pin oiling. Finding it in stock anywhere may not be possible at the moment, though.
 
A few comments.
- doubt that rocker arms are causing a 30 psi oil pressure loss [ unless using veeeeeery thin oil ]. I would be looking elsewhere. Factory oil pumps are over-engineered to allow for eventual engine wear & STILL provide adequate oil pressure.
- don't know where this nonsense about bushing lifter bores comes from. I presume you are using a used block & it provided 000s of miles of trouble free running with the existing bores.
- if the engine size is 440 or less, that cam will be a dog on the street
- lifter oiling for needle roller lifters. Another con job, like oil/FT cam failures. It is an engineering FACT that needle/roller brgs survive on minimum oil. HD, the inventor of needle roller lifters, did not provide pressurised oiling to the lifters & they last forever. Examples abound of roller brgs lasting 000s of miles on scant lubrication, u joints, wheel brgs, alt brgs to name a few.
- I would only used bushed lifters & the best that you can get. Isky comes to mind...A bushing type lifter DOES need a pressure wedge for lubrication. It works like the rod/main brgs.
 
My 470 stroker has been to 7000 na. With nos it’s been to 8000 many times. It was built in 1998. In 2013 it was checked over and the lifters and springs were changed. It had Comp 829s in it. Replaced them with the same lifters and the same comp springs. It had a 4 summers of street driving along with many track runs. The springs have over 700 at .625 lift. Kim

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Bewy said:
A few comments.
- doubt that rocker arms are causing a 30 psi oil pressure loss [ unless using veeeeeery thin oil ]. I would be looking elsewhere. Factory oil pumps are over-engineered to allow for eventual engine wear & STILL provide adequate oil pressure.
- don't know where this nonsense about bushing lifter bores comes from. I presume you are using a used block & it provided 000s of miles of trouble free running with the existing bores.
- if the engine size is 440 or less, that cam will be a dog on the street
- lifter oiling for needle roller lifters. Another con job, like oil/FT cam failures. It is an engineering FACT that needle/roller brgs survive on minimum oil. HD, the inventor of needle roller lifters, did not provide pressurised oiling to the lifters & they last forever. Examples abound of roller brgs lasting 000s of miles on scant lubrication, u joints, wheel brgs, alt brgs to name a few.
- I would only used bushed lifters & the best that you can get. Isky comes to mind...A bushing type lifter DOES need a pressure wedge for lubrication. It works like the rod/main brgs.
Click to expand...

You are correct, I have BIG main and rod bearing clearances and constant oiling to the top end with indy heads, all this causes lower oil pressure, but its 70+ psi from 2500 so I can live with it.
Its like this since I built it.
Engine in 11:1 470 and my street driving is not really sitting in traffic, its 7000rpm from light to light hoping cops dont see me. I have other cars to drive like grampa ;-) This is driven like its stolen most of the time. I also have 5000 stall converter in this car...
I am tempted about bushed iksy lifters but its 1500$ and I know people that use 829 for 10+ years with one rebuild and bigger overall cams than mine, at this price point 2 sets of 829 are 1200$ and when I talk to Isky and others about street driving with bushed lifters they just say its a competition part, they dont know and say needle bearing could work also. Bigger wheel size seems like a good idea though 812" vs .750.
I think the biggest problem is too weak spring, roller gets hammered by the cam and this gets you in trouble. I saw 15% open pressure drop on spring in 3 seasons time. They went from 620lbs installed to 530lbs and killed cam + 3 lifters. Damage was consistent on all the lifters.
 
Miszny said:
I think the biggest problem is too weak spring, roller gets hammered by the cam and this gets you in trouble. I saw 15% open pressure drop on spring in 3 seasons time. They went from 620lbs installed to 530lbs and killed cam + 3 lifters. Damage was consistent on all the lifters.
Click to expand...

You might really want to look into cryogenic treatment on the springs. I have at minimum my springs and rocker arms treated on all my engines. The harder the intended use the more components I have treated. On my 499" engine I even had the Victor intake treated to relieve the casting stress since I knew it was going to get heavily ported and I didn't want it cracking later.

In the link below you can see a short video from Circle City Cryogenics that has my K-Motion valve springs, a USPS box with my rocker arms hanging out, and my Victor intake getting the -300 degree treatment.


The process makes the valve springs last without loosing pressure over time.

Tom
 
PROSTOCKTOM said:
You might really want to look into cryogenic treatment on the springs. I have at minimum my springs and rocker arms treated on all my engines. The harder the intended use the more components I have treated. On my 499" engine I even had the Victor intake treated to relieve the casting stress since I knew it was going to get heavily ported and I didn't want it cracking later.

In the link below you can see a short video from Circle City Cryogenics that has my K-Motion valve springs, a USPS box with my rocker arms hanging out, and my Victor intake.

The process makes the valve springs last without loosing pressure over time.

Tom
Click to expand...

People told me that my way of using was inadequate and my springs were at the limit when new anyway which caused early fatigue. Idea is that I should let the springs heat soak before hard drivibg which i never did. I decided to get harder spring so even if fading occurs I can live with them.
On the other hand looking at ot from wallet perspective, buying 450$ springs every 3 years and rebuilding lifters for I dont know how much just as often makes me think that big *** solid flat tappet cam could have been fun also ;-)
 
PROSTOCKTOM said:
You might really want to look into cryogenic treatment on the springs. I have at minimum my springs and rocker arms treated on all my engines. The harder the intended use the more components I have treated. On my 499" engine I even had the Victor intake treated to relieve the casting stress since I knew it was going to get heavily ported and I didn't want it cracking later.

In the link below you can see a short video from Circle City Cryogenics that has my K-Motion valve springs, a USPS box with my rocker arms hanging out, and my Victor intake getting the -300 degree treatment.


The process makes the valve springs last without loosing pressure over time.

Tom
Click to expand...

Please try to post photos not links.
 
Pressure feeding the needles in the roller helps remove heat build up within the roller. An often overlooked benefit with no downside.
 
@Bewy
- don't know where this nonsense about bushing lifter bores comes from. I presume you are using a used block & it provided 000s of miles of trouble free running with the existing bores.
Click to expand...
As cast OE blocks do not have the straightest in line and angled lifter bores. After machine shop work correcting them to as close to perfect as possible for use with high lift cams, the lifter bores can be bushed when very high lift cams intended for high rpm’s is being sought.

Some lifters oil bands will pop up out of the bores causing low oil pressure. Also, the lifter bore bushing material has an oil hole drilled to re meter the oil for less oil for more control of the bleed rate of oil.

This has been a proven method of oil control and the correction of lifter angle.
 
If you guys know of any good deals for lifters let me know. I should have a cam in 2 weeks and springs are off the shelf.
The more I talk to people the more difficult it is to decide what I want ;-)
 
Last edited:
oldkimmer said:
My 470 stroker has been to 7000 na. With nos it’s been to 8000 many times. It was built in 1998. In 2013 it was checked over and the lifters and springs were changed. It had Comp 829s in it. Replaced them with the same lifters and the same comp springs. It had a 4 summers of street driving along with many track runs. The springs have over 700 at .625 lift. Kim

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View attachment 1715943454

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Click to expand...

Do you know part number for your spings?
 
Have you looked at Comps 829-B lifters that might be another option
 
BAM lifters ....

This is the opposite side of the lifter in relation to the oil gallery.
The small pushrod oil feed hole is only on this side.
Oil from the gallery is fed from the other side thru the big hole, then it’s an edge orifice scenario to get oil into the small hole.
My customer isn’t going to use the pushrod oiling, so the small hole being exposed at full lift isn’t a concern in that aspect.
You can see that if the small hole is being exposed, then the top of the big hole is getting close to the top of the lifter bore.
So, the test is to see if there is any significant leakage around the top of the lifter bores when the lifters are near full lift.

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