Did I break it

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Steve welder

Steve welder

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The guy at my local welding supply asked me to stop by today as they had a small trade show
Live music and food. Wasn't much of a trade show more like a get together
They had a few welding booths set up were you could try the machine they were using and weld up some horse shoes welding arts and crafts nonsense using stick Mig or Tig
The guy I deal with asked me to make some sparks as his boss was there, so I got my shield and stuff and tried stick on one of these do it all machines
It was a 110/220 machine and they had it running on 110
They only had 1/8 7014 wire which I told them the 110 input didn't allow for enough of amperage, it ran the wire but cold.......Next I noticed they had the machine on straight polarity which I reversed
I had some 3/32 7018 in the car and so I used that.....I wanted to see how it would run at 110 volts on this machine
This machine had a hot start feature which I never saw on a small machine
I noticed the arc was a little hard to start but I found out later I had the hot start all the way down
I welded a half a horse shoe to a 3/8 strip of plate, the machine ran the 3/32 flat position hot ,so hot in fact I had to lower amps. I was impressed up until I tripped the circuit breaker.
We reset the breaker, the machine came on but even after some time wouldn't strike a arc
POS new fangled do it all welder that I must of overheated after welding a few rods
I must have went over the duty cycle even though I didnt weld all that much with it
Last I knew after BSing with some wisp of fresh air PYT who was a employee of the company for ten minutes the machine still didnt work
At that point I took my free tee shirt and left
 
Just curious what brand of welder? I recently got one of the Forney 120 volt / 80 amp DC stick / TIG welders and have yet to trip the 30% duty cycle. I’ve ran it pretty hard, including keyhole vertical welding with 3/32 7018 with no complaints yet.
 
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Garrett Ellison said:
Just curious what brand of welder? I recently got one of the Forney 120 volt / 80 amp DC stick / TIG welders and have yet to trip the 30% duty cycle. I’ve ran it pretty hard, including keyhole vertical welding with 3/32 7018 with no complaints yet.
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A Lincoln...It went up to 110 amps while in the 110 volt mode.......Ran 7018 flat very nice at 110 amps,
I dropped it down to 90 to fill a slight gap....Although I didn't do vertical up id thing 85 90 amps would put you in the ballfield
80 amps open root with 7018 sounds about right. 80 amps flat or overhead unless the machine runs very hotter would result in a cold weld with that wire
I have some 1/16 wire for mild steel and some 1/16 for stainless
Years ago I had a stainless job in a commercial kitchen, thin stainless
I had to put the truck on the grass up against a building and throw a rope down from two stories up to drag up over a hundred feet of ground and work cable
That 110Volt machine would have been a hell of a lot easier
 
That's correct on it tending to run cold out of position. It would probably do okay with 1/16 7018 for flat or overhead, but any time its asked for more current I've been able to switch to an 1/8 7014 and run without issues. I didn't mention it's an inverter unit so it does run very hot for what it is. It's classified as higher amperage, but the dial number stops at 80, so that's what I'm going to call it! Here's the link to their site, I got mine for about $225 on Amazon. Given what it is and the price, I believe whether or not you get a good one by luck of the draw, but they are one of the higher rated machines.
Forney Easy Weld 100 ST Stick Machine | Forney Industries
 
Interesting.
Not at all trying to be snarky but the voltage in the U.S. was 110V up to the 1930's. Then it slowly crept up until I believe sometime in the later 60's it became 120V nationwide. Between the 110V days and 120V days there was 115V, and also 117V. Sorry but I was an instructor for a major utility and even some of our employees called it 110 and I had to correct them. Bad habit I guess.
 
Have you tried a Fronius battery operated unit yet? We used these in remote locations at our nuclear plants and they paid for themselves the first time we didn't have to run temp power. They weigh in aroun 30# and charge in like 60-90 minutes. I ran 10 3/32 7018 rods on one charge. Work for stick and tig.
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ACME SS said:
Between the 110V days and 120V days there was 115V, and also 117V.
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That’s interesting (well, to me anyway!) I’ve wondered about older appliances that were labeled as 110 or 115 volt and didn’t realize there had been an upward push of the rms ac house hold voltage. I’ve only recently discovered 277/480 volt single phase systems and imagine the older 440 and 460 single and three phase systems were also a part of that change. That battery pack welder is something else now, though!
 
Garrett Ellison said:
That’s interesting (well, to me anyway!) I’ve wondered about older appliances that were labeled as 110 or 115 volt and didn’t realize there had been an upward push of the rms ac house hold current. I’ve only recently discovered 277/480 volt single phase systems and imagine the older 440 and 460 single and three phase systems were also a part of that change.
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Yeah the higher the voltage, the less the current so they can get by with smaller cables and wires. Saves on copper for sure. In some of our substations we had voltage regulators which would automatically change the # of windings they would pick up. This was to adjust for voltage sags or when it may have gotten too high.
 
Garrett Ellison said:
That's correct on it tending to run cold out of position. It would probably do okay with 1/16 7018 for flat or overhead, but any time its asked for more current I've been able to switch to an 1/8 7014 and run without issues. I didn't mention it's an inverter unit so it does run very hot for what it is. It's classified as higher amperage, but the dial number stops at 80, so that's what I'm going to call it! Here's the link to their site, I got mine for about $225 on Amazon. Given what it is and the price, I believe whether or not you get a good one by luck of the draw, but they are one of the higher rated machines.
Forney Easy Weld 100 ST Stick Machine | Forney Industries
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Im guessing these 110V machines have come a far way from early versions
You mentioned 7014 1/8 wire. Today at the show thats what they had available to use
I ran it at max on the machine I was using but it definitely was not enough amperage for that size wire
I think 110 machines serve a useful purpose and come in very handy but ive as of yet not seen one capable of being used in a industrial setting doing pipe or structural work in position
I have a older Miller XMT 350 CV/CC inverter, its a 220/440 single or three phase machine. Since im just about fully retired I want to sell it and im looking at one of these Miller 110/220 inverter 160 amp machines.....Im figuring I could run 1/8 6010 or 3/32 7018 at a pretty good duty cycle and not beating the crap out of the machine, but than again its only for small odds and ends.
 
ACME SS said:
Have you tried a Fronius battery operated unit yet? We used these in remote locations at our nuclear plants and they paid for themselves the first time we didn't have to run temp power. They weigh in aroun 30# and charge in like 60-90 minutes. I ran 10 3/32 7018 rods on one charge. Work for stick and tig.
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I looked into that machine, 3,500 plus but in a industrial setting like I worked in, when we got capital money to spend, id tell the boss buy it
If you could run 10 7018 rods hot than thats impressive..... Once (actually more than once) I had to assist electricians running cable in tight spots on a ship......All I had to do was weld clips where they told me, just a tack was all it took
There was dozens but even though it was a easy day dragging welding cable all around was a PIA
It got even worse when we had to do the same thing in the control room abroad ships with the newest computers and technology.....Usually we grounded cables at deck of ship, than we just stretched work cable were ever job was.......Now they wanted the ground within a couple of feet of were the welding was taking place...........Thats Fronius battery machine would have been just the ticket
I noticed they sold a stick only welder for around 1500 and I read this company produces high end quality machines, worth looking into
Thing is I would never even look at anything other than Lincoln or Miller but in todays world many of the internals of theses machines are made over seas in third world countries.....Boards have been known to fail ----------Thanks for telling of your experience with theses welders
 
Steve welder said:
I looked into that machine, 3,500 plus but in a industrial setting like I worked in, when we got capital money to spend, id tell the boss buy it
If you could run 10 7018 rods hot than thats impressive..... Once (actually more than once) I had to assist electricians running cable in tight spots on a ship......All I had to do was weld clips where they told me, just a tack was all it took
There was dozens but even though it was a easy day dragging welding cable all around was a PIA
It got even worse when we had to do the same thing in the control room abroad ships with the newest computers and technology.....Usually we grounded cables at deck of ship, than we just stretched work cable were ever job was.......Now they wanted the ground within a couple of feet of were the welding was taking place...........Thats Fronius battery machine would have been just the ticket
I noticed they sold a stick only welder for around 1500 and I read this company produces high end quality machines, worth looking into
Thing is I would never even look at anything other than Lincoln or Miller but in todays world many of the internals of theses machines are made over seas in third world countries.....Boards have been known to fail ----------Thanks for telling of your experience with theses welders
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We had the stick only machine as well and I used it. It worked fantastic. I think the company is out of Sweden or Switzerland? Their videos are pretty funny cause the welders are wearing like space age goofy garb. But seriously, these are good machines that we put to use about 3 years ago and they are performing well from what I understand. I'm retired now but I keep in touch with some of the guys.
 
ACME SS said:
We had the stick only machine as well and I used it. It worked fantastic. I think the company is out of Sweden or Switzerland? Their videos are pretty funny cause the welders are wearing like space age goofy garb. But seriously, these are good machines that we put to use about 3 years ago and they are performing well from what I understand. I'm retired now but I keep in touch with some of the guys.
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The technology is changing and honestly I haven't kept up
In my days in power generation often I had to do a piece out of a water wall tube inside the boiler
Its a huge boiler over 100 feet high and at least 40 feet square, maybe even bigger as its been awhile
Welding in a new tube we used grid type machines that were located through out the plant
The thing was id be inside the boiler up on the climber, have a guy below and a guy right outside the boiler
Id set the machine to what I thought was right but if I had to make a adjustment id have to yell to the guy below, you'd in turn yell to the outside man and he'd either walk up a whole lot of flights of stairs or take the elevator to get to the machine to adjust it
The cables went through port holes and the guy would wait to hear from me if the amperage was ok
Just a part of the job that could be a PIA
So seeing that the tube was welded on the inside we'd run 6010 1/8 and finish everything off with 3/32 7018
If I had one of these new inverter machines I could have taken it up with me on the sky climber and ran one single phase 220 volt cord out the post hole and be done with it
Much easier
 
Steve welder said:
The technology is changing and honestly I haven't kept up
In my days in power generation often I had to do a piece out of a water wall tube inside the boiler
Its a huge boiler over 100 feet high and at least 40 feet square, maybe even bigger as its been awhile
Welding in a new tube we used grid type machines that were located through out the plant
The thing was id be inside the boiler up on the climber, have a guy below and a guy right outside the boiler
Id set the machine to what I thought was right but if I had to make a adjustment id have to yell to the guy below, you'd in turn yell to the outside man and he'd either walk up a whole lot of flights of stairs or take the elevator to get to the machine to adjust it
The cables went through port holes and the guy would wait to hear from me if the amperage was ok
Just a part of the job that could be a PIA
So seeing that the tube was welded on the inside we'd run 6010 1/8 and finish everything off with 3/32 7018
If I had one of these new inverter machines I could have taken it up with me on the sky climber and ran one single phase 220 volt cord out the post hole and be done with it
Much easier
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Yep we did the exact same thing for our boilers. I was the CWI who tested the welders for outages. In some instances they called for a TIG root with 7018 and that is where the more expensive Fronius came in handy. When I retired in 2020, our coal plants were buying these battery units but like I said earlier, they were really a huge money saver at our nuclear plants.
 
We also were testing out the ESAB Rebel in the training center. They seemed to work pretty good and a lot of the guys liked them. I've got an older version of it under the ThermalArc name, before ESAB bought them out. We had mostly Lincoln and Miller machines but we liked to give the apprentices a chance to try all brands. Boilermakers testing for an outage appreciated the opportunity to choose the weapon of their choice. For some I think it lowered their anxiety to use a familiar machine but others didn't care either way. When someone busts out of a TIG test, all kinds of excuses about drafts, etc, start flying. LOL
 
ACME SS said:
Yep we did the exact same thing for our boilers. I was the CWI who tested the welders for outages. In some instances they called for a TIG root with 7018 and that is where the more expensive Fronius came in handy. When I retired in 2020, our coal plants were buying these battery units but like I said earlier, they were really a huge money saver at our nuclear plants.
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You and I could talk for hours about power gen......We have two units Arthur Kill 20 and 30
20 unit was built in late fifties and 30 mid sixties both still on line
When I started out in the summer of 1970 as a 18 yr old, 20 unit was still burning coal......I worked in the coal yard and was it filthy dirty
I remember fixing broken conveyer belts up in the air at night in the middle of the winter....The foreman in his office would have two bottles and some little paper Dixie cups, pour yourself a shot to warm up
I didnt know it at the time but those were great days
 
I'll keep my 800 pound econotig transformer machine, thanks.
 
jos51700 said:
I'll keep my 800 pound econotig transformer machine, thanks.
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I see Lincoln Idealarc machines for sale on Market place all the time. Most under a grand some have TIG setups included...... Great great machines run forever.....rising core transform had that big crank handle
You couldn't kill those machines and they welded fantastic
 
On the subject of classic unbeatable welding machines, I really do like those Ideal-Arc three phase machines. The 400 amp unit I got to use a few times was my favorite transformer welder I've ever used. But the machine that felt like it literally welded perfectly no matter what you did was an old Lincoln SAC 500 torpedo welder. I had a friend that taught welding at the local manpower education center for a little over a year who broke one out of storage. I'm sure it was bloody murder on the power bill as it was a three phase generator driven by a three phase motor, but for a stable and smooth arc that started right then and there was nothing else even close. It even ran a little better than a well used Hobart ford inline 6 powered 600 amp rated welder I got to use a couple of times.
 
Garrett Ellison said:
On the subject of classic unbeatable welding machines, I really do like those Ideal-Arc three phase machines. The 400 amp unit I got to use a few times was my favorite transformer welder I've ever used. But the machine that felt like it literally welded perfectly no matter what you did was an old Lincoln SAC 500 torpedo welder. I had a friend that taught welding at the local manpower education center for a little over a year who broke one out of storage. I'm sure it was bloody murder on the power bill as it was a three phase generator driven by a three phase motor, but for a stable and smooth arc that started right then and there was nothing else even close. It even ran a little better than a well used Hobart ford inline 6 powered 600 amp rated welder I got to use a couple of times.
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Motor generator, pure DC output. Weld 3/16 low hi, gouge with 1/4 rods all day every day. Those machines were beasts.....They represented another time in this country. Without exaggeration those machines with some occasional maintenance my opinion would work a hundred years or more
Built to last.....There still around
 
We had a oil farm as we called it...A million gallon tank of #6 and a pumping station and heaters next to it
The place was all full of #6....Steam leaks now and than, just a hard environment and if you ever worked with 6 oil you know what I mean
There was a old crank handle Lincoln Ideal Arc 300 Amp welder outside exposed to elements
We used that machine and mind you we were doing HP steam pipe work
The legs on the machine rotten away, the dial was so faded you couldn't read what amperage the machine was running, the indicator long gone....I think if you ever tried to move it, it would of fallen apart but that baby welded and welded excellent. Rain snow it kept on working
The final demise was a North Easter which brought the salt river water over the dock and flooded the place with 4 feet of water.....The old Lincoln had finally met its match and we gave it a proper burial
I doubt any inverter new machine could last that long or put up with abuse like that
I hear from guys ten years of use (industrial) and throw it away
 
I have what I consider a couple toys, a stick welder and a wire welder. When I need something welded I take it to work with me. Lincoln 480 volt, 100 percent duty cycle. I have weekend duty every 8 weeks. Most times it’s quiet so I always have a “government” job to do.
 
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