320HP Magnum Crate w/ X-heads

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go-fish

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The parts hoarding continues!

I am purchased a new 320hp Magnum crate long block from Summit (thanks @Heywodja ) for my dear old Dad.
ATK High Performance Engines HP73 ATK High Performance Chrysler 360 Magnum 320 HP Stage 1 Long Block Crate Engines | Summit Racing

Back Story: I had previously given him a 1972 360 block and many parts for his "70 Cuda. Basically everything minus rotating assembly and cam. I helped him source a 6 Barrel manifold and a set of X-heads. I am working with a car builder that knows the owner of Fi-Tech to get a sponsor discount on a 6 Pack EFI deal. The manifold and X-heads are at a machine shop friends and they are getting a little cleanup and port matched. Going with a 224 @.050" cam / LSA ~ 110 degrees. He will be using the TKO 5 speed out of my '70 Cuda.

Well, this Magnum crate motor popped up and being that it is already machined and it has factory hydraulic roller lifters I called my Dad and asked him if he wanted me to pursue it. Got the green light. I really wanted to keep the good 360 block and parts I had been collecting because I eventually wanted to build a 3.79" stroker. The crate Magnum engine gets him a little farther faster and I can get my parts back!

So here we are, we possibly need a 360 piston that is going to work with open chamber x-heads.
KB KB191KTM-020 Keith Black KB Performance Hyper Piston and Ring Kits | Summit Racing
That is if they are needed. Ideally, Dad want's around 9:1 compression. The whole reason for dumping the very hot 440 and going small block is driveability. He wants to not worry so much about crappy fuel. EFI and 8.5:1 - 9:1 compression should ease concern and the 5 speed and 3.55's should allow him to drive however far his wallet can stand.

The advert from Summit says it's from ATK and they use a seasoned block. I figure we could sell the heads and valve covers and get a set of pistons. I reasserted that this crate engine would need to get disassembled and inspected anyway so it would be a perfect time to measure and get the right piston. I kind of had to educate him on the Magnum/LA difference in oiling too. We'll just just use the pushrod oiling and keep the lifters. Will swap the cam pistons when it gets torn down for inspection.

A couple of thoughts and things to question:
What would the results be with putting the x-heads atop the piston's in the engine now? I guess we just have to measure but I am sure the pistons are in the hole a couple thou. The trigger for buying new pistons will be if the compression will be 8:1 or lower. Should we move the trigger point to 8.5? What's the thinnest gasket you could go with on a lower comp engine to bring up the compression?

Pushrod oiling. I am expecting to just need to get different length 'oil thru' pushrods. The x-heads will be using the Mancini branded Harland Sharp adj. rockers.

Any other considerations for this Magnum w/ LA heads deal?
 
You can always mill the heads and/or deck the block. May not have to buy pistons that way.
 
How are you going to oil the rockers? Don't they oil through the shaft?
 
How are you going to oil the rockers? Don't they oil through the shaft?

Pushrod oiling. I’ve never had an engine that oils through the pushrods but have read about Magnum engines that run LA heads and vice versa.
 
I can't vouch for the quality or lack thereof Mancini Racing Aluminum Roller Rocker Arm Kit

Those are the ones. Harland Sharp actually makes those for Mancini and Mancini brands them.

Those, the 224 @ .050" cam, and a switch to dome pistons is the overall plan to use with the x-heads and LD6B intake on the Magnum.

What do we gain from using the Magnum crate engine? Hydraulic roller lifters. We'll get to sell the Magnum heads to recoup some of the cost of the pistons and cam. We don't have to machine the ole LA 360. We don't have to buy a rotating assembly, lifters, oil pan, and maybe some other stuff.

Also, all the new parts and '72 360 block I gave my Dad will return to me. So I can hoard more parts, LOL. :thumbsup:
 
Pushrod oiling. I’ve never had an engine that oils through the pushrods but have read about Magnum engines that run LA heads and vice versa.
I think you might be incorrect. The rockers have to have some sort of bearings, needle roller or brass bushings. "I bet" they are designed to oil through the shafts. You might want to do some research on this.

The Magnum heads that oil through the pushrods don't have shaft rockers. They use pedestal mounted rockers, and are designed from the get-go to be pushrod oiled.
 
I think you might be incorrect.
mancini-racing-aluminum-roller-rocker-arm-kit-19.png


Fits: Magnum Shortblock w/ LA heads
Aluminum body rocker arm set for 5.2L & 5.9L engines utilizing 1964-1992 LA cylinder heads.Rocker arms feature lifter oiling thru pushrod and rocker arm. Special cup style adjusters allow for the use of early & late engine components.
 
The parts hoarding continues!

I am purchased a new 320hp Magnum crate long block from Summit (thanks @Heywodja ) for my dear old Dad.
ATK High Performance Engines HP73 ATK High Performance Chrysler 360 Magnum 320 HP Stage 1 Long Block Crate Engines | Summit Racing

Back Story: I had previously given him a 1972 360 block and many parts for his "70 Cuda. Basically everything minus rotating assembly and cam. I helped him source a 6 Barrel manifold and a set of X-heads. I am working with a car builder that knows the owner of Fi-Tech to get a sponsor discount on a 6 Pack EFI deal. The manifold and X-heads are at a machine shop friends and they are getting a little cleanup and port matched. Going with a 224 @.050" cam / LSA ~ 110 degrees. He will be using the TKO 5 speed out of my '70 Cuda.

Well, this Magnum crate motor popped up and being that it is already machined and it has factory hydraulic roller lifters I called my Dad and asked him if he wanted me to pursue it. Got the green light. I really wanted to keep the good 360 block and parts I had been collecting because I eventually wanted to build a 3.79" stroker. The crate Magnum engine gets him a little farther faster and I can get my parts back!

So here we are, we possibly need a 360 piston that is going to work with open chamber x-heads.
KB KB191KTM-020 Keith Black KB Performance Hyper Piston and Ring Kits | Summit Racing
That is if they are needed. Ideally, Dad want's around 9:1 compression. The whole reason for dumping the very hot 440 and going small block is driveability. He wants to not worry so much about crappy fuel. EFI and 8.5:1 - 9:1 compression should ease concern and the 5 speed and 3.55's should allow him to drive however far his wallet can stand.

The advert from Summit says it's from ATK and they use a seasoned block. I figure we could sell the heads and valve covers and get a set of pistons. I reasserted that this crate engine would need to get disassembled and inspected anyway so it would be a perfect time to measure and get the right piston. I kind of had to educate him on the Magnum/LA difference in oiling too. We'll just just use the pushrod oiling and keep the lifters. Will swap the cam pistons when it gets torn down for inspection.

A couple of thoughts and things to question:
What would the results be with putting the x-heads atop the piston's in the engine now? I guess we just have to measure but I am sure the pistons are in the hole a couple thou. The trigger for buying new pistons will be if the compression will be 8:1 or lower. Should we move the trigger point to 8.5? What's the thinnest gasket you could go with on a lower comp engine to bring up the compression?

Pushrod oiling. I am expecting to just need to get different length 'oil thru' pushrods. The x-heads will be using the Mancini branded Harland Sharp adj. rockers.

Any other considerations for this Magnum w/ LA heads deal?

Just my two cents but I would hit the easy button get a set of flat tops close to zero deck and use the magnum heads to get the closed modern chamber and knock resistance that goes with it.
 
Just my two cents but I would hit the easy button get a set of flat tops close to zero deck and use the magnum heads to get the closed modern chamber and knock resistance that goes with it.

You know, I would be doing that if it were my build. My Dad, however, is married to the idea of using x-heads. He also has some money already dumped into these heads with a bowl blend and gasket and port matching with the LD6B.
With the KB domed hypereutectics we can get some quench back. Also, it’s about $200 to drill the Mag heads for the LA intake bolt pattern.
 
If you end up getting an early 5.9 block, it may have the oiling passage drilled for shaft oiling.
@Heywodja delivered the engine to my dad earlier today. I’ll have pops find the date of casting. It should be up to 93 or 94 that they had the block drilled for head oiling, right?
 
@Heywodja delivered the engine to my dad earlier today. I’ll have pops find the date of casting. It should be up to 93 or 94 that they had the block drilled for head oiling, right?

Good question. I think they stopped drilling them in 93-94ish. When he takes the heads off, have him snap a photo of the deck surface. I'm sure you already know, but this is the hole you're looking for:

upload_2022-7-3_18-30-26.png
 
You know, I would be doing that if it were my build. My Dad, however, is married to the idea of using x-heads. He also has some money already dumped into these heads with a bowl blend and gasket and port matching with the LD6B.
With the KB domed hypereutectics we can get some quench back. Also, it’s about $200 to drill the Mag heads for the LA intake bolt pattern.

I get it. I still have a lot of that mythical nostalgic belief built in that leads me to build my 340's. Lots more car decisions are based on some sort of emotion than most of us would care to admit.
 
Still have to drill or change the cam bearings.
We are going to stick with the Magnum pushrod oiling. We’ll get a fuel pump block off plate and will use the Tanks Inc. tank with fuel pump so we won’t need a fuel pump eccentric on the cam.
 
Does ATK supply some sort of spec/build sheets for each build? That would be sort of an easy button to find out what has been machined and what not. I think stock Mag heads are in the 65 ish cc area for chamber. Not hard to get the X head to that spec. Just losing a little quench. Omg!!! I just said you might lose a little quench!!! There's the caveat!!!!! I'm being sarcastic. Have never measured actual static on a Mag. Were supposed to be 9 ish to 1? Someone can chime in on actual MEASURED specs if they have them. Point being, you seem to be willing to spend money and go through a lot of work to buy a new engine and tear it apart right away.
 
Point being, you seem to be willing to spend money and go through a lot of work to buy a new engine and tear it apart right away.

I would have just ordered a short block from them if I was using different heads. I have been eyeing their 408 short block for some Trick Flow heads and some yet to be determined camshaft.
 
Does ATK supply some sort of spec/build sheets for each build? That would be sort of an easy button to find out what has been machined and what not. I think stock Mag heads are in the 65 ish cc area for chamber. Not hard to get the X head to that spec. Just losing a little quench. Omg!!! I just said you might lose a little quench!!! There's the caveat!!!!! I'm being sarcastic. Have never measured actual static on a Mag. Were supposed to be 9 ish to 1? Someone can chime in on actual MEASURED specs if they have them. Point being, you seem to be willing to spend money and go through a lot of work to buy a new engine and tear it apart right away.

The initial thing that made me consider this Magnum is that it was deeply discounted from Summit. We already have the x-heads and LD6B so the new Magnum heads can be sold to cover the cost of pistons or a cam.
Hopefully the Magnum pistons aren't way down in the hole and we can make up some compression by slightly milling the head and using a thin gasket.
Also, instead of having to find a new block and rebuying all the engine parts that I had originally given my Dad for the early LA 360 I get those back. The way I see it is I am possibly saving money in the long run. I was planning on building it but not anytime soon. Pops was wanting to repower his Cuda this year.
 
This is from Jeg's listing for this engine. Also looked up the stock cam specs and it says 196 @ .050" intake / 205 @.050" exhaust.
Note: I think the valve size is wrong on the Jegs site as it says intake valve is 1.78"??? That's smaller than an LA360! Magnum's have a 1.92" intake valve, correct?
The listed bore size is 4.060" too.


-----------------------------------------------------------
  • Horsepower: 320 hp
  • Torque: 410 ft.-lbs.
Block Information:

  • Seasoned OE Magnum roller block 1993-2001
  • Bore/Stroke: 4.060 in, x 3.580 in.
  • Displacement: 360 ci
Rotating Assembly:

  • Crankshaft: OE cast
  • Balance: External
  • Rods: OE 6.123 in.
  • Compression Ratio: 9.1:1
  • Pistons: Hypereutectic
  • Rings: Moly
Camshaft Specs:

  • Camshaft: Hydraulic roller
  • Cam Duration @ .050 in.: OE Magnum grind
  • Cam Lift: OE Magnum grind
  • Timing Chain: Double roller
Cylinder Head Information:

  • Cylinder Heads: OE Magnum cast iron
  • Combustion Chamber: 65cc
  • Valve Size: 1.78 in. Intake / 1.50 in. Exhaust
  • Rocker Arms: Steel 1.6 pedestal rockers
Oil Pan Information:

  • Oil Pan: OE front sump
  • Oil Pump: Melling standard volume
 
Drill cam bearings, educate me
If you find a magnum block that has the provision for “through the head oiling” it will need holes in the camshaft bearings to do so. The magnum engines do not have holes in the cam bearings to do so.
 
Good question. I think they stopped drilling them in 93-94ish. When he takes the heads off, have him snap a photo of the deck surface. I'm sure you already know, but this is the hole you're looking for:

View attachment 1715951366


Cool! Learned something new there. My 94 5.9 i am building right now has those holes too.
 
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