Starter relay question

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hotrod swinger

hotrod swinger

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1966 Plymouth valiant signet

Just picked this car up, trying to understand the wiring.

instead of a starter relay there is a buss in the engine compartment. All of the wires that would normally be connected to the big lug on the starter relay are connected to the buss. The wire for the starter solenoid goes straight from the bulkhead connector to the solenoid.

Can anyone enlighten me on this set up? Is this going to work? I would have expected to see a starter relay.
 
what is attached to it on the inside of the car? I'm thinking if it is not stock that it is someone's attempt to remove the High current wires from the bulkhead connector.

As for starter relay, keep looking.

Is there a battery wire direct from the battery to the starter?
Then from the starter to the connector in question?
Where doe the Alternator wire go to?

This is what I think is happening (a form of MAD bypass) your not feeding the starter with the car your feeding the car with the wire attached to the starter, attached to the battery/ alternator

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just reread you post, the part about the starter relay wire from the bulkhead connector going directly to the starter solenoid. if that is the case then there is a lot of current being pulled through the ignition switch to throw the starter solenoid. OR you have some fancy starter that has the relay built into it. (only needs low current to Triger the solenoid and Bendix?)
 
I'd begin with pencil(s) and paper and by checking four things:
Alternator output, Battery positive, and the alternator and starters to determine what tiype of wiring arrangement each needs.

The first two are the power supplies. Follow those wires to each and every place they connect. There will be one or more junctions to the main circuits.
From there identify the main circuits. There must be at least one feed to a ignition switch. If its a factory multiswitch, then one feed. If it has push button start or other arrangements, then multiple wires. There ought to be one feed to the fusebox, maybe another to relays if added, a feed to headlight switch B1 (if factory headlight switch), and one feed for a horn relay.
 
You are fine (so far as current). That solenoid does not draw very much. The main reasons "Ma" used the starter relay was --to make a workable neutral safety switch for automatics, and to lesson the load on the ignition switch contacts because the 'big ol' OEM gear reduction starters had a heavy solenoid load

If however you have an automatic and not a stick, you will either have to have a NSS through the shifter, or install a relay to operate through the NSS on the transmission. You do not HAVE to use an OEM relay. You could also use a more modern Bosch style relay
 
67Dart273 said:
If however you have an automatic and not a stick, you will either have to have a NSS through the shifter, or install a relay to operate through the NSS on the transmission.
Click to expand...

Thank you now I understand, because my friend told me the wiring is operational, but with the caveat that the NSS is not hooked up and the car will start in any gear.

Looks like I have my answer. Remove the buss, install a starter relay and hook up that NSS.
 
Is the loose wire in the starter photo the wire that triggers the relay on the starter?

Where does the heavy read wire on the starter go to?

Like 67dart273 alluded to, going back to OEM will make things easier and safer.

But I am still not following where the heavy wire on the "buss" goes to?
 
I understand how the current setup could “work”, but I’m going back to OEM I’m not going to drive a car without a neutral safety switch.
 
I think the previous owner has used the original heavy cable running from the starter relay to the starter to power a 'general purpose' 12v buss line. Anything that might get added in the future, EFI, stereo system, retractable antenna etc can be powered by the buss.
 
The starter looks like the direct drive type. The large red cable goes from the battery positive to the solenoid terminal [normally off]. The other large solenoid terminal goes to the starter brushes. When the small terminal gets power from the ignition start terminal it closes the contacts, and electricity flows into the brushes. The armature quickly spins, forcing the bendix into the ring gear, and the engine turns over.

The remedy for neutral start can be done as stated by using a Mopar starter relay. Or, using a relay with two terminals to energize the relay coil. The second terminal would go to the neutral/park tranny switch. Or, you could mount the existing solenoid on a block of plastic/nylon to isolate it from ground. Then use the solenoid base as a terminal, and run that to the tranny switch.

More info is needed about the other wiring.
 
Is that a Canadian built car? Canadian built early (not sure what years) slants, used a different starter then the American counterparts. Some of the wiring was also different. @slantsixdan hopefully will chime in.
 
I ended up removing that aftermarket stud and installing an OEM starter relay. Everything works properly.

The former set up really just had the effect of jumping the relay and bypassing the NSS, which I don’t want.
 
Charrlie_S said:
Is that a Canadian built car? Canadian built early (not sure what years) slants, used a different starter then the American counterparts. Some of the wiring was also different. @slantsixdan hopefully will chime in.
Click to expand...


Yes, the pre-'67 Canadian-built Slant-6 cars had a different starter and control circuit. Instead of the Chrysler-built gear-reduction starter, they used a direct-drive Prestolite ("Auto-Lite" at the time) unit like the worldwide '60-'61 cars, with a solenoid like this one perched on it. The solenoid serves as the starter relay; no separate upstream relay is used (nor is it beneficial to add one). The hookup to the solenoid is the same as it would be to the starter relay on a US car: the hot wire from the "Start" position of the ignition switch goes to one of the solenoid's small terminals, and the other small terminal gets the wire from the neutral safety switch—the NSS provides a ground for the solenoid's coil when the car is in Park or Neutral. Cars with manual transmission got a different solenoid with only one small terminal and a permanent ground for its coil.

Starter.jpg
 
Looks like the starter from an International Farmall H farm tractor with that (Ford) type starter relay on it.

Glad you got it set up properly now.

No neutral saftey switch Is a good way to back through a closed garage door. Especially If you hit the key from outside the car.
 
In the meantime I installed a starter relay and followed the American Dart GT wiring schematic:

F12E95BB-690D-43E5-BD80-74E99D944449.jpeg


I know, I know, those are just temporary terminals.


slantsixdan said:
and the other small terminal gets the wire from the neutral safety switch
Click to expand...

I’m not seeing two small terminals, am I missing something? I would consider going back to Canadian wiring if I have the correct solenoid. I simply followed the service manual.
 
slantsixdan said:
Yes, the pre-'67 Canadian-built Slant-6 cars had a different starter and control circuit. Instead of the Chrysler-built gear-reduction starter, they used a direct-drive Prestolite ("Auto-Lite" at the time) unit like the worldwide '60-'61 cars, with a solenoid like this one perched on it. The solenoid serves as the starter relay; no separate upstream relay is used (nor is it beneficial to add one). The hookup to the solenoid is the same as it would be to the starter relay on a US car: the hot wire from the "Start" position of the ignition switch goes to one of the solenoid's small terminals, and the other small terminal gets the wire from the neutral safety switch—the NSS provides a ground for the solenoid's coil when the car is in Park or Neutral. Cars with manual transmission got a different solenoid with only one small terminal and a permanent ground for its coil.

View attachment 1715957708
Click to expand...

As usual, "BIG" came in here and didn't read--or LOOK. If HE would have, he'd seen that the starter solenoid/ contactor on the OP's starter HAS ONLY ONE small stud. There is no way that the OP could have incorporated the NSS system with that contactor "as it sits."
 
I tested my set up and it is entirely functional and in accordance with the American factory service manual and wiring diagram. I’m going to leave it as is.

BTW, in case I didn’t already mention, I am really psyched to have this car. I love the slant six!
 
67Dart273 said:
As usual, "BIG" came in here and didn't read--or LOOK. If HE would have, he'd seen that the starter solenoid/ contactor on the OP's starter HAS ONLY ONE small stud. There is no way that the OP could have incorporated the NSS system with that contactor "as it sits."
Click to expand...
How do you know that is the correct solenoid? It might have been changed and the wrong one used. It is entirely possible the sol on the car is correct for a vehicle with a standard shift. It is not correct for a Canadian build with an automatic.
 
In any event, with that particular solenoid and an automatic it needs a starter relay, and that’s what I did.
 
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