Restoration

-
ClassicCarGuy

ClassicCarGuy

69 (R6) Red ‘Cuda
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2018
Messages
179
Reaction score
64
Location
Suburbs Phila Pa
Can anyone recommend a reputable person/place in the out lying area of Philadelphia (1-1/12 hrs) that does quality Mopar restoration work? Looking for someone to build a Demon Resto Mod.
If so, would you please send me a PM with contact info.
Thanks
Greatly appreciated!
 
Sorry if I'm being a Nattering Nabob of Negativism, ClassicCarGuy, but there are several problems with hiring a restoration shop. The first thing is that they always seem to want to enter into a "specific car at a specific price" type of agreement, which is where the restorer grabs and names a nice, high figure out of mid air, which he knows will net him a handsome profit, but that is really for rich people where cost is no object, because it is way too expensive.

Speaking of expensive, it IS very expensive to restore a car correctly because it requires an immense amount of time. Most people of average income can't really afford it. Ask me how I know. I'm trying to learn restoration skills because I can't really afford to pay somebody to do it.

On the other hand, it is hard for the restoration shop to comply with most states' automotive consumer protection laws unless you thoroughly media blast the body first, so the restorer knows exactly what he's up against and can give you some kind of meaningful estimate, as these laws require. Then the only really proper way to proceed is to negotiate the price for doing repairs on a piecemeal basis. The restorer may try to use you as his piggy bank by not completing the agreed-upon work before demanding more money, so you've got to be willing to take the car back home again if he tries to do that. Watch out for having the car stripped, not being able to come to agreement, and having to bring the car home again, resulting in surface rust. And for the restorer stripping parts off the body so it can't be easily transported, and then demanding more money than he is entitled to because he knows you can't move it.

But if you have plenty of money to spend on the project, then the foregoing may not apply to you.
 
Bill Crowell said:
Sorry if I'm being a Nattering Nabob of Negativism, ClassicCarGuy, but there are several problems with hiring a restoration shop. The first thing is that they always seem to want to enter into a "specific car at a specific price" type of agreement, which is where the restorer grabs and names a nice, high figure out of mid air, which he knows will net him a handsome profit, but that is really for rich people where cost is no object, because it is way too expensive.

Speaking of expensive, it IS very expensive to restore a car correctly because it requires an immense amount of time. Most people of average income can't really afford it. Ask me how I know. I'm trying to learn restoration skills because I can't really afford to pay somebody to do it.

On the other hand, it is hard for the restoration shop to comply with most states' automotive consumer protection laws unless you thoroughly media blast the body first, so the restorer knows exactly what he's up against and can give you some kind of meaningful estimate, as these laws require. Then the only really proper way to proceed is to negotiate the price for doing repairs on a piecemeal basis. The restorer may try to use you as his piggy bank by not completing the agreed-upon work before demanding more money, so you've got to be willing to take the car back home again if he tries to do that. Watch out for having the car stripped, not being able to come to agreement, and having to bring the car home again, resulting in surface rust. And for the restorer stripping parts off the body so it can't be easily transported, and then demanding more money than he is entitled to because he knows you can't move it.

But if you have plenty of money to spend on the project, then the foregoing may not apply to you.
Click to expand...

His question was clearly "anyone recommend a reputable person/place" that negates the need for your rambling "Nattering Nabob of Negativism".
 
69cudaownr said:
His question was clearly "anyone recommend a reputable person/place" that negates the need for your rambling "Nattering Nabob of Negativism".
Click to expand...

For those not aware of the pitfalls that possibly lie out there, I agree with the remarks of Bill Crowell. Just a heads up, I all it.
 
I appreciate all and any comments. You’ve mentioned some key points that could/would be easily over looked or just not considered. I wish I had the skills, tools and facility to complete my own project. Plus I’m of the age I really don’t want to spend the time learning and practicing to end up with less than professional results. I envy the individual that takes a piece of what appears to be junk and turns it into a piece of art. It must be self gratifying.
Yes, I really would like to find a trustworthy person/shop. I’ve heard the horror stories and that’s why I’m reaching out in hopes I find the recommended person/shop via personal experience or personal known reputation. It’s sure not like it was years ago where a person had personal pride and feed his family on his business reputation.
Thanks to each of you for your comments. Maybe I need to increase my travel parameters.
Both comments greatly appreciated! Thank you
 
ClassicCarGuy said:
Maybe I need to increase my travel parameters.
Click to expand...
It would be hard for me to send my car away to the point where I can't just show up unannounced to see what is going on. That's a large reason why I've been sitting on a road runner that needs more than I have the skills and room to do.
 
Uncle Bob said:
It would be hard for me to send my car away to the point where I can't just show up unannounced to see what is going on. That's a large reason why I've been sitting on a road runner that needs more than I have the skills and room to do.
Click to expand...
I hear what you’re saying!
 
Oldmanmopar is a well regarded member on this board that lives north of Philly. He has a wealth of knowledge and possible ideas / contacts regarding the restoration process. You could wait to see if he responds to your thread or you could PM him.
 
Vs29H1B said:
Oldmanmopar is a well regarded member on this board that lives north of Philly. He has a wealth of knowledge and possible ideas / contacts regarding the restoration process. You could wait to see if he responds to your thread or you could PM him.
Click to expand...

I reached out to him recently, but he’s not taking on any new projects for an undetermined time and he didn’t have anyone to recommend. Could be because I want to do a resto mod and he’s not interested or doesn’t know of anyone he’d recommend for my project.
Thanks for your suggestion!
Greatly appreciated!
It appears I might need to expand further away from this immediate area.
 
You might try going to shows nearby and talking to owners of nice Mopars. Some will be owner restored but others may have recommendations. Then go visit some of the shops.

Of all the TV or YouTube shows I watch, shops like FantomWorks in VA stand out to me.
 
I had my 70 Dart 340 done at Warhart Customs in Quakertown
20210227_142955_Burst07.jpg
20210227_142941.jpg
20210227_143259_Burst01.jpg
and I'm very happy with it. My friend had his 71 Duster and 69 barracuda done there and he's going back again with his 72 Demon. https://www.warhartcustoms.com/
 
Just finishing a "correct" resto. This is a form of insanity. But you said "resto mod". That is very different. You will need a fabrication shop for changes in suspension and drivetrain. Then a good body and paint guy (might be the same place). Here on the left coast you should expect to spend $100K. $45K just for the paint and bodywork. Count the cost, plan out what you want and what you can afford. The people that can do this kind of quality work are rare. Good luck.
 
I would suggest keeping an eye out for a car that's done. Maybe a close representation of what your "finished" car would be. And buy it. I'm not much of a body man or painter so I found a 68 fastback that had a really nice body and paint. I pulled it apart and changed everything that needed it. Now it's back together with my "touch" my way. I also have the satisfaction of knowing it's done right AND I saved a boat load of cash. I simply could not afford to pay someone else the hourly rate to make it the way I wanted.
1st picture is the engine bay when I bought it
2nd picture is after I put my "touch" on it
IMG_4343.JPG
MAFG1116.JPG


IMG_1505.JPG
 
Most restorers want an open end contact, and you can only partially blame them. They dont know the extent of metal and body work required till they have your car stripped including all paint/ filler to bare metal. That is why it is important to start a relationship them or even more than one shop well before you sign a contract and hand over your car. I have been talking with muscle car restorations in Chippewa falls, Wisconsin for 3-4 years now. You have to let them know what a micro managing cheap bastard you are(thats a good thing). Then they will start to work with you to keep your restoration on track and budget. More than likely a reputable shop will not compromise quality/integrity of their work as it is their reputation at stake, but there is money to be saved along the way. MCR wants 5k to pickup my car, have it dipped (chemically stripped) and transported to their shop 300 some miles away. I told them thats not going to happen. I told them I would have it dipped and delivered and they should make arrangements for it to be done at their vendor so it meets their standards. We are negotiating a price for that although they may not realize it as I am playing a waiting game. I know they are interested in me cause I keep getting Christmas cards. Go visit their shop a couple times a year. Attend their open house and meet them at their car shows. Make them your friends. They know know in the end you will be talking them up and they might hit the big coin from someone with deep pockets that loves your car and your story. You’ll get out of it what you put into it.
 
RON REAGLE said:
I would suggest keeping an eye out for a car that's done. Maybe a close representation of what your "finished" car would be. And buy it. I'm not much of a body man or painter so I found a 68 fastback that had a really nice body and paint. I pulled it apart and changed everything that needed it. Now it's back together with my "touch" my way. I also have the satisfaction of knowing it's done right AND I saved a boat load of cash. I simply could not afford to pay someone else the hourly rate to make it the way I wanted.
1st picture is the engine bay when I bought it
2nd picture is after I put my "touch" on itView attachment 1715959345 View attachment 1715959346
Click to expand...

99% of the time I'd agree with you. Even if the price seems too high, it wont be nearly as high as the bill you'll get from a restoration shop.

Sounds like he wants something done up custom which can be impossible to find if you have specific customizations in mind and even more expensive if the custom touches he wants involve stripping a nicely built car anyway.
 
KosmicKuda said:
You might try going to shows nearby and talking to owners of nice Mopars. Some will be owner restored but others may have recommendations. Then go visit some of the shops.

Of all the TV or YouTube shows I watch, shops like FantomWorks in VA stand out to me.
Click to expand...

Great suggestion! I plan to attend a local car show tonight. I was at the Lehigh Valley Mopar club show a couple weeks ago and never gave that a thought. We’ll see if I get any good leads tonight.
I wish Mark Gorman had a Resto mod shop/department. I think with his Mopar only shop, quality control program and the assembly line format he uses he puts out the best end results for the money. I’m not crazy about his peculiar behavior, but I can overlook that based on the results he gets.
I also enjoy Fantom Works, but my friend is always pointing out the discrepancies in his Mopar projects. That’s the plus when you’re dealing with a shop that caterers to one brand mfg. IMO

Thanks for the suggestion!
 
My 2 cents.
I have seen guys all my life that wanted a perfect show car, then after they finally achieved such, then they learned that they would not drive it for fear of hurting that $10,000 body/paint job that the shop spend 2 years on. Or a car the reto costs them $70,000. Then they wanted a "driver' to go with it or in many cases sold the "show car" off at a loss.
Like said above, many times it is the best plan to find a car already done to YOUR requirements and save time ad money in many cases.
Body work is very labor intensive and materials are not cheap.
I'm 74 and I have built perfect. I am glad I have learned long ago, to do my own work, get rid of all rust, and make it a DRIVER!!!!!!
Bad part is when I want to sell one off, the buyer wants a $10,000 paint job for $3000 including the darn car!!!!! Mopar guys!!:poke::poke::poke::poke::poke::poke::poke:
 
Murray said:
Just finishing a "correct" resto. This is a form of insanity. But you said "resto mod". That is very different. You will need a fabrication shop for changes in suspension and drivetrain. Then a good body and paint guy (might be the same place). Here on the left coast you should expect to spend $100K. $45K just for the paint and bodywork. Count the cost, plan out what you want and what you can afford. The people that can do this kind of quality work are rare. Good luck.
Click to expand...

I agree! Not every shop is a Resto mod shop! Thanks for sharing your insight and wisdom.
 
RON REAGLE said:
I would suggest keeping an eye out for a car that's done. Maybe a close representation of what your "finished" car would be. And buy it. I'm not much of a body man or painter so I found a 68 fastback that had a really nice body and paint. I pulled it apart and changed everything that needed it. Now it's back together with my "touch" my way. I also have the satisfaction of knowing it's done right AND I saved a boat load of cash. I simply could not afford to pay someone else the hourly rate to make it the way I wanted.
1st picture is the engine bay when I bought it
2nd picture is after I put my "touch" on itView attachment 1715959345 View attachment 1715959346

View attachment 1715959351
Click to expand...

You definitely have the eye and touch!
Looks great! The only difference I personally would have gone with a replica aftermarket aluminum radiator. I’m partial to the factory look unless it’s a retro mod and then the engine bay is treated different, but with respect. That’s just my taste and humble opinion.
 
ch1ll said:
Most restorers want an open end contact, and you can only partially blame them. They dont know the extent of metal and body work required till they have your car stripped including all paint/ filler to bare metal. That is why it is important to start a relationship them or even more than one shop well before you sign a contract and hand over your car. I have been talking with muscle car restorations in Chippewa falls, Wisconsin for 3-4 years now. You have to let them know what a micro managing cheap bastard you are(thats a good thing). Then they will start to work with you to keep your restoration on track and budget. More than likely a reputable shop will not compromise quality/integrity of their work as it is their reputation at stake, but there is money to be saved along the way. MCR wants 5k to pickup my car, have it dipped (chemically stripped) and transported to their shop 300 some miles away. I told them thats not going to happen. I told them I would have it dipped and delivered and they should make arrangements for it to be done at their vendor so it meets their standards. We are negotiating a price for that although they may not realize it as I am playing a waiting game. I know they are interested in me cause I keep getting Christmas cards. Go visit their shop a couple times a year. Attend their open house and meet them at their car shows. Make them your friends. They know know in the end you will be talking them up and they might hit the big coin from someone with deep pockets that loves your car and your story. You’ll get out of it what you put into it.
Click to expand...

I loved your “micro managing cheap bastard you are” comment. Great laugh, but you are so right!
All good information and insight.
Thanks!
 
barbee6043 said:
My 2 cents.
I have seen guys all my life that wanted a perfect show car, then after they finally achieved such, then they learned that they would not drive it for fear of hurting that $10,000 body/paint job that the shop spend 2 years on. Or a car the reto costs them $70,000. Then they wanted a "driver' to go with it or in many cases sold the "show car" off at a loss.
Like said above, many times it is the best plan to find a car already done to YOUR requirements and save time ad money in many cases.
Body work is very labor intensive and materials are not cheap.
I'm 74 and I have built perfect. I am glad I have learned long ago, to do my own work, get rid of all rust, and make it a DRIVER!!!!!!
Bad part is when I want to sell one off, the buyer wants a $10,000 paint job for $3000 including the darn car!!!!! Mopar guys!!:poke::poke::poke::poke::poke::poke::poke:
Click to expand...

Your 2 cents welcomed and appreciated. Probably more like 20+k of good advise.
I sense wisdom speaking! Yes you and Ron Reagle both make a lot of sense and share sound advice.
Thanks for your comments & insight!
 
I thought of another person who might be able to steer you to a good shop in your general area.

Member RVA is a retired body and paint man living in PA, central PA. He is NOT taking any work but he has restored many classics and may have some ideas on who could do the work for a reasonable price.

It usually never hurts to ask ... he may not get back to you right away ... but he will .. eventually ...and he is a wealth of knowledge on these cars. Good luck !
 
Like I said, not local but, muscle car restorations in Chippewa falls, Wisconsin. They have Numerous how to articles they have written published in Hot Rod magazine and any restorations they have done added a premium to the value of the vehicle. All in house restorations including a dyno for tuning and your hp goals are met.

also their open house’s are killer featuring cars they have restored. The quality and craftsmanship is beyond awesome.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top