First time having manual brakes, are mine bad?

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standup303

standup303

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I just got my Dart and it is the first vehicle I have driven with manual brakes. Disc front, drum rear. I have to stand on the brake pedal, hard, just to come to a complete stop. Does that seem normal? I am ordering drilled slotted rotors for the front, new pads, then new shoes for the rear. Going to give them a good bleed and go from there. But at this point I have no idea why someone would want manual brakes!
 
Check if caliper pistons and wheel cylinder pistons are seized. Also the rubber hoses can also be bad. Check rotors and drums for rust on the friction surface If the brakes are working properly, the friction surfaces shouldn't have any rust they should be polished, also the wheels should lock up just like power brakes if you hard stand on them.
 
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Might also be the pads are poor material and glazed. "The basics." Rear drums: Make sure of hte usual, good parts, not all rusted/ bound up, adjusted, good shoe material AND IF THE drums have been turned out too much, they are now LARGER and without "arcing" the shoes to fit, only contact the shoe "middle" of the lining. This does two things: Because it's working on a fraction of the shoe surface, it overheats and glazes the lining, and because there is no surface, it just doesn't have much stopping force.

Also I would not get too excited about slotted rotors. Get some good pads if not, and have the factory ones turned.

My 67 when I had it together, I "threw it together" (to see if it would work, with the factory drum master. Worked find. I had 73/ 74 front disc, and Ford Versailles rear disk. You did have to press it some, but you could lock it up or nearly so at freeway speed. It REALLY stopped.
 
71 Demon 340. Manual KH disc's up front, drums in back. Pedal is hard but you need some leg to make it stop. New hoses, lines, calipers, etc, etc. It reminds you how good new car brakes really are!

FWIW...
 
Not normal. With the stock size master cylinder the pedal will be hard but you shouldn’t have to “stand on it” to come to a stop.

The “usual suspects” have already been recommended as far as troubleshooting goes. What year is your car? Are the disks original to it?

I prefer manual disks on these cars over the factory power systems. I switch them over to a 15/16” bore master cylinder (makes the pedal effort a little better). The pedal effort is nothing like a new car if you’re used to that, but it shouldn’t take anything extraordinary to make the car stop.
 
Try a 15/16 bore master cylinder. Sand with 80 grit sand paper to break the glaze on the rotors and get some good brake pads. I use Hawk street pads.
 
72bluNblu said:
Not normal. With the stock size master cylinder the pedal will be hard but you shouldn’t have to “stand on it” to come to a stop.

The “usual suspects” have already been recommended as far as troubleshooting goes. What year is your car? Are the disks original to it?

I prefer manual disks on these cars over the factory power systems. I switch them over to a 15/16” bore master cylinder (makes the pedal effort a little better). The pedal effort is nothing like a new car if you’re used to that, but it shouldn’t take anything extraordinary to make the car stop.
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Hah, beat me by a minute.
 
66fs said:
Hah, beat me by a minute.
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Only a minute!

I should clarify though, I still think the OP needs to troubleshoot his current system first because it sounds like something else is going on. For the long run I think the 15/16” master cylinder is the way to go, but even the factory master cylinder should allow for stopping the car without extraordinary effort. The OP should try to identify the issue before just throwing a ton of parts at it.
 
I have to agree with you. I ran a 1 1/32 bore master for years on a 64 Barracuda and loved it, OEM 74 Duster manual brake system. It seems like newer pads don't work as well? Maybe bad flex lines as well.
 
Is the pedal soft or hard when you push it? If it's hard, the MC may have something seized inside of it.

If it's a soft pedal, there's very likely air in the system. If you have access to a vacuum bleeder, those usually work well. Check for leaky fittings. Check for kinks in the lines that would prevent sufficient flow.
 
You really need to break in the new disc pads properly to avoid glazing. They aren't just "throw them in and go". Yours could be glazed, or a caliper piston could be frozen.

I have two K-H disc A-bodies, both with manual brakes. One has the 1-1/32" and the other has the 15/16" MC. There is a difference in pedal effort, but there isn't a difference in stopping power. Both also have slotted cross-drilled rotors, but that is because I like to take them on winding roads up in the Sierra and Siskiyous. Not really needed for a cruiser. They don't affect normal stops, they just help dissipate heat when you are really hitting the brakes hard over a period of time, like a track day or a 9% grade.
 
Just Send It said:
Is the pedal soft or hard when you push it? If it's hard, the MC may have something seized inside of it.

If it's a soft pedal, there's very likely air in the system. If you have access to a vacuum bleeder, those usually work well. Check for leaky fittings. Check for kinks in the lines that would prevent sufficient flow.
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The pedal is hard. I will dig into the system this weekend. Thanks for pointing those out.
 
72bluNblu said:
Not normal. With the stock size master cylinder the pedal will be hard but you shouldn’t have to “stand on it” to come to a stop.

The “usual suspects” have already been recommended as far as troubleshooting goes. What year is your car? Are the disks original to it?

I prefer manual disks on these cars over the factory power systems. I switch them over to a 15/16” bore master cylinder (makes the pedal effort a little better). The pedal effort is nothing like a new car if you’re used to that, but it shouldn’t take anything extraordinary to make the car stop.
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It’s a 1974 with I believe factory discs up front.
 
standup303 said:
It’s a 1974 with I believe factory discs up front.
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Ok, so it should have the 73+, single piston slider calipers. Those brakes are more than capable of locking up the wheels when functioning properly. With the factory master cylinder it will be a pretty hard pedal, but if you stomp on it you should lock up all the wheels.

You said the car is new to you, what kind of condition is it in? Has it been sitting a long time? Do you know know the last time anyone did anything to the brakes?
 
72bluNblu said:
Ok, so it should have the 73+, single piston slider calipers. Those brakes are more than capable of locking up the wheels when functioning properly. With the factory master cylinder it will be a pretty hard pedal, but if you stomp on it you should lock up all the wheels.

You said the car is new to you, what kind of condition is it in? Has it been sitting a long time? Do you know know the last time anyone did anything to the brakes?
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Car is in good overall condition but I would guess the brakes haven’t been touched in a number of years.
 
standup303 said:
Car is in good overall condition but I would guess the brakes haven’t been touched in a number of years.
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Yeah I would just start with a general inspection then. Lots of good things to check already mentioned here, just look at the condition of everything. If nothing is obviously stuck, leaking, the pads and shoes don't look fouled or burnt etc then move on to a good brake fluid flush out and refill, check to make sure everything is moving as it should and work from cheap/easy to expensive/hard. One thing at a time so you know what fixed it. Fluid is cheap, brake hoses are cheap, pads and shoes are a bit more but are wearing parts anyway etc. If after that stuff the pedal is still rock hard and the car doesn’t stop then look into the master cylinder, the seals in them can stick, swell, etc.
 
72bluNblu said:
Yeah I would just start with a general inspection then. Lots of good things to check already mentioned here, just look at the condition of everything. If nothing is obviously stuck, leaking, the pads and shoes don't look fouled or burnt etc then move on to a good brake fluid flush out and refill, check to make sure everything is moving as it should and work from cheap/easy to expensive/hard. One thing at a time so you know what fixed it. Fluid is cheap, brake hoses are cheap, pads and shoes are a bit more but are wearing parts anyway etc. If after that stuff the pedal is still rock hard and the car doesn’t stop then look into the master cylinder, the seals in them can stick, swell, etc.
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Thanks for the help! I’m planning to working on the car this weekend. I’ll post up if I find anything out of the norm.
 
standup303 said:
I just got my Dart and it is the first vehicle I have driven with manual brakes. Disc front, drum rear. I have to stand on the brake pedal, hard, just to come to a complete stop. Does that seem normal? I am ordering drilled slotted rotors for the front, new pads, then new shoes for the rear. Going to give them a good bleed and go from there. But at this point I have no idea why someone would want manual brakes!
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That doesn't sound normal. Tell us about you. Are you a small guy or girl with not a lot of lower body strength? No disrespect meant, I'm just askin as I caint see you. We need to make sure it IS the car, after all. Generally speaking, these old cars stop reasonably well. My 64 Valiant for example has the aforementioned 9" manual drums all around and it stops VERY well for what it is. My wife even likes it. I think from your description though, it does sound like something is wrong with the car itself. But if you're only like 5' 4" and 110 pounds, that could have an effect too.
 
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standup303 said:
. I have to stand on the brake pedal, hard, just to come to a complete stop
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  1. How old are you? ( I know I know but there is a reason for the question)
  2. Define "stand on the brake pedal"
  3. Before you add cool fancy parts, be sure EVERYTHINHG is functioning correctly.
  4. Go to an empty parking lot and see if you can lock them up.
 
Seems to me starting with the change to single piston disc brakes in 73 Mopar added a booster so manual brakes either point to added discs or removed booster... Either way the M/C bore size becomes a question...
 
After reading responses here I am fairly certain something is wrong within the system. I’m going to dive in and start checking them out this weekend. Thanks All!
 
Entirely possible the the MC has been replaced with the wrong one over the years. I have manual drums on my 69 Swinger but I changed up the MC and wheel cylinders for more stopping power ( easier pedal) and it works great!
 
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