Rack and pinion

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Dan the man

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Hello everyone. I'm new to the modify of the mopar A body suspension system. Has anybody here installed a rack and pinion on their A body? What's the pro's and con's of doing this? I was thinking about converting to a rack and pinion for the better handling and header fitment. Any particular brand preferred over another, cost? Car is a 1972 scamp with a 318 and a 904 transmission.
 
Oh here we go again… there’s been like 10 threads on this subject in the last month… Search is your friend here…

The whole point of an old car is the feeling in the seat of your pants. Want R&P buy a BMW. Your just spinning your wheels so to speak… Not going to gain any advantage over stock…

Carry on….
 
Oh here we go again… there’s been like 10 threads on this subject in the last month… Search is your friend here…

The whole point of an old car is the feeling in the seat of your pants. Want R&P buy a BMW. Your just spinning your wheels so to speak… Not going to gain any advantage over stock…

Carry on….
That's what I figured
 
if you are considering a rack / pinion coil over conversion, please give HDK a look.....feel free to call

HDK
Denny
304-939-0097

HemiDenny

active FABO member for 25 plus years

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@Dan the man
Now, you've been around here long enough you have surely seen these rack and pinion/coilover threads pop-up. They can stay at the top of the hopper for days and come back t life after a long time gone. Just search "coilover", "rack and pinion", blah, blah, blah.

I get that newbies may not be familiar with the search function and haven't seen the countless coilover threads but, here, I think you're just trying to stir up some **** or something.
 
Back in the day there was Uni-steer but I think they got sued out of business because they tried to make the rear steer work with a rack. You really need your steering to be from the front of the spindle for a rack and pinion. The only way to do that is to to do the whole enchilada and get a coilover suspension with the Mustang II spindles.
Save up or abandon the idea. No other way.
 
Running a rack with the factory suspension generally leads to a really bad Ackerman angle, really bad steering joint angles, or both.

There are some drag race cars set up like that, but that’s because they’re track only cars and only worry about going straight (although bad Ackerman isn’t good for that either if anything gets out of shape).

The only way I have seen to have a truly functional rack with good suspension geometry for street use is when it’s part of a coilover conversion.

And I don’t see the point anyway. The difference between a properly rebuilt and adjusted worm and ball steering box and a rack is fairly minimal as far as steering feel goes, and other than some minor weight savings there’s zero performance gain.
 
Back in the day there was Uni-steer but I think they got sued out of business because they tried to make the rear steer work with a rack. You really need your steering to be from the front of the spindle for a rack and pinion. The only way to do that is to to do the whole enchilada and get a coilover suspension with the Mustang II spindles.
Save up or abandon the idea. No other way.
I didn't know that. I just may save my nickels and save my dimes and no it's not giddy up 409
 
Running a rack with the factory suspension generally leads to a really bad Ackerman angle, really bad steering joint angles, or both.

There are some drag race cars set up like that, but that’s because they’re track only cars and only worry about going straight (although bad Ackerman isn’t good for that either if anything gets out of shape).

The only way I have seen to have a truly functional rack with good suspension geometry for street use is when it’s part of a coilover conversion.

And I don’t see the point anyway. The difference between a properly rebuilt and adjusted worm and ball steering box and a rack is fairly minimal as far as steering feel goes, and other than some minor weight savings there’s zero performance gain.
Mopars are known for their sloppy steering and also I was thinking that it would be a good idea for awesome header clearance.
 
Mopars are known for their sloppy steering and also I was thinking that it would be a good idea for awesome header clearance.

Maybe your Mopar is known for sloppy steering, but there's nothing different about them than any other worm and ball steering with tie rod ends. If your Mopar has sloppy steering, then it's probably time for a new pitman, idler and tie rod ends. And either an adjustment on the steering box tension or a rebuild.

Properly rebuilt with new parts the steering should not be sloppy.

And the header clearance thing isn't a help anyway, because where you have to put the rack to manage rear steer the steering couplers are still in the way, and the rack itself has to sit behind the K frame pretty far, so, it's still in the way. And the headers made for these cars aren't made to clear it in that location. Again, it's only a help for header clearance if you go front steer, and that takes a full coilover conversion to do correctly with good steering geometry.
 
Maybe your Mopar is known for sloppy steering, but there's nothing different about them than any other worm and ball steering with tie rod ends. If your Mopar has sloppy steering, then it's probably time for a new pitman, idler and tie rod ends. And either an adjustment on the steering box tension or a rebuild.

Properly rebuilt with new parts the steering should not be sloppy.

And the header clearance thing isn't a help anyway, because where you have to put the rack to manage rear steer the steering couplers are still in the way, and the rack itself has to sit behind the K frame pretty far, so, it's still in the way. And the headers made for these cars aren't made to clear it in that location. Again, it's only a help for header clearance if you go front steer, and that takes a full coilover conversion to do correctly with good steering geometry.
Midlength headers is the fix
 
Your just itching to burn a whole in your pocket. All this stuff you ask about for a “street Cruiser” (your words) is point less. Drive it for a year and find some one close that would let you drive their car that has a rack.

I’ve built my car for hard road driving, Auto X and at some point track days, and have all stock style parts with no slop in the steering. When the stock steering and suspension are setup correctly, these cars will handle amazing.
 
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Midlength headers is the fix

$10 says the header collector would go right through where the steering shaft would go if you mounted a rack behind the k-frame. Pretty sure a rack there would require custom headers. Maybe not, never tried it, just my bet.

I'm all for doing things just because you want to. Heck, I sectioned a later k-frame to fit in an early A-Body just because I wanted spool mounts, a better idler mount and the later sway bar. Was it going to make enough difference to be worth the effort I put into it? Probably not. But I wanted to do it.

I could use some of the same logic with the G3 swap I am working towards, but at least that one has been done multiple times and been shown to work well.

But I doubt the effort to get a rear-steer rack mounted and working is worth the effort based on past attempts. But if you want to do it, more power to you. Get it done and let us know how it went and if the custom headers, oil pan, etc. are worth it.

BTW, I still have the modified k-frame even though the car is long gone. I keep it around to remind me what a fools errand it was.
 
Your just itching to burn a whole in your pocket. All this stuff you ask about for a “street Cruiser” (your words) is point less. Drive it for a year and find some one close that would let you drive their car that has a rack.

I’ve built my car for hard road driving, Auto X and at some point track days, and have all stock style parts with no slop in the steering. When the stock steering and suspension are setup correctly, these cars will handle amazing.
I've learned that, but one doesn't know with out asking.
 
........

I’ve built my car for hard road driving, Auto X and at some point track days, and have all stock style parts with no slop in the steering. When the stock steering and suspension are setup correctly, these cars will handle amazing.

which IMO is amazing when you consider for the most part our beloved A bodies were designed to be inexpensive bottom of the rung basic transportation for entry market collage kids, secretaries and (cough / cough) grandma.

and now, 50 years later.....you want to go road racing with it.
:)
 
From what I see....the challenge in the rear steer rack install it it needs to be where located where the drag link is...which could be do-able. It is the steering shaft angle / hook up combined with exhaust manifolds of any variety that would make even MacGyver walk away.

I ran into a guy at Mopars at the Red Barn more than a decade ago with a rear steer rack in a E body with even more room than our A bodys that wanted me to "fix" it for him. After a look-see...I politely declined.

I think a front steer rack is do-able with the OEM torsion bar suspension, but from my experience, you will spend more time and money making it work correctly than going with coil-overs. The first rack / pinion I did on my green Hemi Duster was the compact Pinto manual rack and torsion bars. To get the geometry even close, I utilized a drag link in the front and modified the lower ball joints /steering arms. Rube Goldberg would have been proud.
 
I ran into a guy at Mopars at the Red Barn more than a decade ago with a rear steer rack in a E body with even more room than our A bodys that wanted me to "fix" it for him. After a look-see...I politely declined.

I've heard that the guy who does the Pikes Peak hill climb in the Cuda has a rack, but no idea how or where it is mounted. But it seems to work for him, not some place I would run a steering setup that didn't give some confidence.

Not trying to support the idea, just sharing what I've heard.
 
I've heard that the guy who does the Pikes Peak hill climb in the Cuda has a rack, but no idea how or where it is mounted. But it seems to work for him, not some place I would run a steering setup that didn't give some confidence.
‘Cuda to the Clouds
Steering is Chrysler rack and pinion with heim joints in place of outer tie rods.
The rack and pinion has a limited turning range, unlike some cars here that can turn their front wheels almost sideways. So Jess has to be careful how far the rear comes out.
Custom headers were designed to clear the rack and pinion, as was the Canton oil pan
Steering column is custom with quick-release wheel and 2:1 Howe quickener (a small gearbox) mounts between the wheel and Chrysler rack and pinion.
Aluminum skid plate protects the Canton Systems road race oil pan which is modified to clear the rack and pinion.
 
Hello everyone. I'm new to the modify of the mopar A body suspension system. Has anybody here installed a rack and pinion on their A body? What's the pro's and con's of doing this? I was thinking about converting to a rack and pinion for the better handling and header fitment. Any particular brand preferred over another, cost? Car is a 1972 scamp with a 318 and a 904 transmission.
when i want that sweet feeling i drive my wifes 2006 Chrysler 300
 
Hello everyone. I'm new to the modify of the mopar A body suspension system. Has anybody here installed a rack and pinion on their A body? What's the pro's and con's of doing this? I was thinking about converting to a rack and pinion for the better handling and header fitment. Any particular brand preferred over another, cost? Car is a 1972 scamp with a 318 and a 904 transmission.

Here in Australia it is very common and works a treat. There are two systems available both behind the K frame.

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A rack & pinion is better than a recirculating ball. Make sure you have no bump steer if you get a rack and mount it yourself.
 
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