ammeter/bypass problems

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CLAY72dart

CLAY72dart

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hello this is clay posey from out in South Carolina I am in the us navy and don't have much time on my hands but I was wondering if you could offer me some help or point me in the right direction. everything on the instrument panel disconnected it will still pop a fuse up to 30A when I hook up the positive and negative to the ammeter. positive is ran directly from starter relay to the ammeter with only a inline fuse in the way. with or without ammeter connected fuse blows or wires burn. 1972 dart 318 5.2L
 
AmMeter is Positive-Thru... You Cannot hook a Positive and a Negative to it, That will Direct-Short.
The Ammeter is the Hot from the Alternator thru the Ammeter to the Battery. The Gauge shows how hard the Alternator is working...
Hot on Both Sides of That Gauge!
 
That actually makes a lot more sense so do you think it can be a short along the ammeter wires causing the problem? I drove the car it worked fine with the way they were hooked up then nothing after that. No ignition no lights nothing. It gradually got worse it would pop the fuse once a week then daily then after every drive now it pops the moment I hook it up. And could anyone tell me where on this diagram the ammeter would be?

DDF4D7FF-0A1A-44ED-8B75-220EF8F92926.jpeg
 
Sir, may we see a picture of your car? We are very picture oriented. We do boast a 72 box of crayolas when it comes to wiring. We boast in house specialist that can lead you down the path of success. As the self appointed gatekeeper, I do have to insist that you send a picture of this gem with a newspaper in front with todays date.

Ha Ha just jerking ya. I have no idea on that diagram where the ammeter lies. There is factory wiring diagrams online. Im sure someone will pipe up here in a sec.

So, lets see this whip brah!
Thank you for your service.
 
CLAY72dart said:
That actually makes a lot more sense so do you think it can be a short along the ammeter wires causing the problem? I drove the car it worked fine with the way they were hooked up then nothing after that. No ignition no lights nothing. It gradually got worse it would pop the fuse once a week then daily then after every drive now it pops the moment I hook it up. And could anyone tell me where on this diagram the ammeter would be?

View attachment 1715970050
Click to expand...
It says "Generator Indicator" right under the Oil PSI Indicator...
 
If you trace the BIG RED alternator charge wire from the alternator all the way to the ammeter, then THROUGH the ammeter and the "other" side, including the "factory welded splice" you will likely find where the problem is. It is simply a matter of physically tracking it down.
 
CLAY72dart said:
. And could anyone tell me where on this diagram the ammeter would be
Click to expand...
You need THE diagram for YOUR car. That one is a "generic" example AND most likely a Ford based on the voltage regulator call-out.
 
Dana67Dart said:
You need THE diagram for YOUR car. That one is a "generic" example AND most likely a Ford based on the voltage regulator call-out.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree. Notice also it says "starter solenoid" which is also Ford speak. A Chrysler diagram would say "starter relay". Their little alternator picture does look somewhat "Chrysler-ish" though, doesn't it? LOL
 
RustyRatRod said:
"Chrysler-ish" though, doesn't it? LOL
Click to expand...
I think it looks Classiccarwiring.com -ish:rolleyes:

Overdrive kickdown switch connector and a generator???? Not sure electrically controlled overdrives were available when generators were still in use.


:rofl:

Screenshot_20220813-222058.png
 
Dana67Dart said:
I think it looks Classiccarwiring.com -ish:rolleyes:

Overdrive kickdown switch connector and a generator???? Not sure electrically controlled overdrives were available when generators were still in use.


:rofl:

View attachment 1715970062
Click to expand...

And as strange as it seems, some diagrams listed alternators as generators long after generators were gone......and some still do.
 
Thanks guys I will dig in further on this black wire from the ammeter tomorrow I shouldn’t have associated black with ground could be the fault in the line. I will send pictures of the wiring tomorrow morning.
7936D383-D6A7-44D3-B206-863CAEF918A8.jpeg
54C2675B-2CF9-4685-946A-1FFC635E8150.jpeg
 
CLAY72dart said:
Thanks guys I will dig in further on this black wire from the ammeter tomorrow I shouldn’t have associated black with ground could be the fault in the line. I will send pictures of the wiring tomorrow morning. View attachment 1715970063View attachment 1715970064
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One side of the ammeter IS a black wire. I know. Just go with it. The black wire has the famous welded splice with about 5 other positive wires in it. It looks like something a caveman soldered together, but it's factory. Make sure the ancient tape over the welded splice is still good. If not, remove it, clean it up GOOD and re-tape it with GOOD quality electrical tape. There are some other products too, but I've found as long as you use a good quality vinyl electrical tape, it will be fine. But as mentioned, you're going to need to do some physical tracing, because what it sounds like is, that wire......on one side of the ammeter or the other has found ground when it's not supposed to.
 
Here is the Mad electrical article, should you decide to completely bypass the ammeter. Lots of people have done it, especially when the ammeter fails, which could be your problem. You'll just need to check it for continuity to ground with a meter at each terminal. If either terminal has continuity to ground, the ammeter has failed. You'll want to make sure to do that with both wires disconnected from the ammeter, as to isolate it.
 
The black is a major main feed FROM the ammeter and goes "generally" to the headlight switch, to the fuse box "hot" buss, to the input terminal of the ignition switch, AND OUT THE BULKHEAD AGAIN to the ALTERNATOR

Disconnect the alternator and try it. Diodes can short and cause this problem

Also to troubleshoot this withOUT endangering the wiring further, disconnect the battery ground and hook the largest 12V lamp you can get your hands on IN SERIES with the battery and ground. Use a stop/ tail lamp, a dome light, or even an old headlamp. If there is a heavy draw or short the lamp will light up bright, but will not burn down anything

THE ONLY 'fuse' IN THAT ENTIRE AREA is the "fuse link" and they are darn poor protection
 
67Dart273 said:
The black is a major main feed FROM the ammeter and goes "generally" to the headlight switch, to the fuse box "hot" buss, to the input terminal of the ignition switch, AND OUT THE BULKHEAD AGAIN to the ALTERNATOR

Disconnect the alternator and try it. Diodes can short and cause this problem

Also to troubleshoot this withOUT endangering the wiring further, disconnect the battery ground and hook the largest 12V lamp you can get your hands on IN SERIES with the battery and ground. Use a stop/ tail lamp, a dome light, or even an old headlamp. If there is a heavy draw or short the lamp will light up bright, but will not burn down anything

THE ONLY 'fuse' IN THAT ENTIRE AREA is the "fuse link" and they are darn poor protection
Click to expand...
We've touched on this very briefly with mine, Del. 64 Valiant slant six car. IF IT HAS a fusible link, I ain't found it yet......I haven't turned it upside down lookin, but I have looked in all the "usual" places.
 
Tracked down the problem this morning from the black wire through the factory splice. Then out to the engine bay where I seen the problem previous owner added on these great chrome edelbrock covers, but he failed to see along with myself the black alternator wire was pinched in the cover it wore down and created the short there. Which shorted out the rest of the system. Car is back up and running now I can go back to upholstering my seats. I also have a few parts that were left in the car when I bought it its a 2 barrel carb 2 sets of valve covers an air filter/cover and a couple sets of short headers. If you pay shipping I will ship them to whoever wants them. If interested phone number is 903-288-658NINE.
 
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