isnt he a member here?
oh brother...lol. it always cracks me up how triggered you get when this subject comes up and the lengthy hate spewed posts against the systems you post.. i think everyone gets it. you hate those systems. ok.. but many like them. i guess thats something you'll need to accept one day.
yes many people would like to one stop shop instead of having to go different places. i don't see an issue with that. nothing that you posted about what is posted on the RMS site is a lie. call it whatever you want but it isn't a lie. like i said if you are so curious about plots or numbers then ask bill one day.. maybe he will show you. maybe not, i don't know. what i do know is crying about it on a web site won't get you the answer...
i don't care how new a steering box system is, i don't care how prefect the box is adjusted. no way will it feel like a rack. just too many moving parts. me, i prefer the feel of a rack. its what i like.. i'm not telling you that you have to like it. there is a different feel. that just can't be argued. for me i don't care about lap times. its about how it feels on the street driving how i want to drive.
and yet again if anyone thinks you can just bolt anything in and it be perfect for their intended use right out of the box without some tweaking to make it work for them then they are just an idiot.
Hate? I don't hate coil over suspensions. It's just suspension. It has its advantages AND its disadvantages compared to torsion bar suspension.
And I'm not triggered. I just posted facts. You haven't posted one thing about coil over suspensions that you've supported with data or even a basic analysis. Not even the subjective article you've posted is accurate, wracks71's Duster has been obliterated by torsion bar/leaf spring cars. I posted some basic facts, and you're the one still arguing that coil overs are better.
No one that makes a coil over suspension has ever posted the geometry plots, compared their bump steer curves, shown their roll center improvement or camber gain. I've never seen it posted by a member either. I have seen those things posted for torsion bar suspensions, and yet no one has done the objective work to compare their coil over system to an upgraded torsion bar system.
Basically that means that everyone with a coil over suspension conversion on a Mopar is just a fanboy. They have no evidence, no facts, but they will say things about how "superior" their suspension is. Well, without the plots and calculations, that's just nonsense. All of the things that would make a suspension "superior" can be
objectively determined. If you're making that claim without posting the actual evidence, well, that's just marketing BS.
And to me,
that's the most annoying part. Coil overs are just suspension, just springs and shocks, nothing to get angry about. But people get convinced they "NEED" coil over suspension to handle well, and there's nothing true about that, you can handle REALLY well with torsion bars and leaf springs, that has been proven again and again. And then they'll spend $5k+ to convert their car without having any objective facts that support that opinion. Why? Because the coil over conversions are shiny and new, and doing the math to actually understand what you're doing in setting up your suspension is hard.
Sure seems like you could buy a complete upgrade kit for a stock front end from one place if someone wanted to "one stop shop". Depending on what parts they wanted. Seems like PST, or Firm Feel would be a good place to start.
Add that if your front end is worn out, buy a poly rebuilt kit and maybe upgrade the TB's and shocks at the same time. Then later add a swaybar when funds are there. After that, maybe some tubular UCA. All in steps that keep the flow of funds low and keep the project moving forward and drivable. And each time the parts could all come in one box.
The alternative is coughing up $5K+ for a front end kit all at once. Oh wait, that's without brakes, so $6K+ if you want it to still roll instead of sit on jack stands. For some that is just the price you pay, but it doesn't sit well for me. Even more so when I still don't see any kind of real performance difference for something like twice the money and a significant hit to the wallet all at once.
Not to say that large purchases aren't necessary at times. I bought a T56 Magnum kit recently and had to do just that. First time I have ever spent so much money on a car outside of buying the car itself. But I don't see myself piecemealing a T56 together so it made sense if I was going to ever have a 6 speed. Just don't see the same logic applying to a coil over kit.
That said, not knocking anyone who does go the direction of a coil over kit. More power to anyone that wants to do it. And I've seen Blu say the exact same thing. I think the issue is only when someone says "coil over are the best" which is different than "I want to use coil overs".
Exactly. You want to run coil overs, fine by me. You go on the internet and start saying "my coil over car is the best" without posting any objective data or geometry, well, you'd better be faster. And so far, none of them have actually been faster. The problem I have with the coil over conversions isn't the suspensions, it's all the fanboys that literally don't know anything about the actual suspension geometry or chassis loading saying they've got the best **** because they spent the most money. Has yet to be proven.
@BergmanAutoCraft is really the only one stop shop if you wanted to fully upgrade a torsion bar suspension car from one source. I think FirmFeel and Summit Racing would be the next closest, with Summit of course you'd get no help with your selection you'd have to figure out what you needed on your own. BAC and FirmFeel can both help walk you through what you need for your application. Although personally I don't understand the need to get everything from the same place. There are pros and cons to all of the upgrade parts out there, and if you can look at what those are and understand how they work within the suspension system you can build a set up that works best for your by going to a few different places.
The "one stop shop" thing that is touted by the coil over swappers is just laziness IMHO. Do you want the best system? Or do you want to click a button and put some shiny toys on your car?
