DOES THE HDK SUSPENSION K-MEMBER HANDLE BETTER THAN A T-BAR SUSPENSION?

racerjoe said
You don't think the 3S has anything to do with handling? Take your car from a standing start and go 70mph hour and figure out how much you need to brake to take a short radius 180 degree turn. The better your car handles, the faster you can take that turn. In my opinion, the 3S is harder to master than the autocross. It tests your acceleration, which is mostly throttle control, turning handling, and lastly braking. It's really easy to screw up and the slightest mistakes affect timing.

I didn't say it didn't have anything to do with handling, I just said it had A LOT to do with horsepower. Because if you can't get up to 70 in that space you're going to lose a ton of time. And if you can't get going fast enough then turning the corner isn't as big of an issue.

Yes, you need to have decent handling to make the corner, but if you don't have the horsepower or the brakes it won't be a win. The 3S does challenge the whole car, but, it's a very horsepower dependent event.

racerjoe said
I realize you live quite far away, so the likelihood of making the journey across the US for the event is unlikely. However, I wouldn't worry about HP. There are plenty of guys there having just as much fun with stock magnum motors. Heck there was a bone stock 70 Duster there that looked like a barn find. What makes this event great is people are there to have fun and not ruin the weekend with aggressive competition.

Yeah I don't know that I'll be making Moparty any time soon. I'd need more than a week to make that a viable trip. I love driving my car but I'd hate to show up and feel like I was out of it because I wasn't in the HP ballpark.

racerjoe said
To be clear, the materials to make my sway bar were less than $200 and Denny offered to make one for me. He has the capability, but I wanted to do it.

I'll have to refresh my memory, I thought you ended up with more than that into it! That wouldn't be bad.

JBrian said
Since I have the torsion bar equivalent of Tim's car, and we've raced together at Moparty, and in the CAM-T SCCA Challenge, I'll gladly give some pros and cons of both setups. Before I do, I'd like to say that Denny approached Tim a couple of years ago because Tim's Duster had been competing for a few years, and Tim had proven himself to be an up and coming driver. God knows he's a better driver than I am! Denny basically said break it if you can, and tell me what need to be improved. Not any other shop that I'm aware of has had enough confidence in their product to roll the dice on that proposition with someone outside the company, Denny did.

And hey, who wouldn't take him up on that offer? If you've never autocrossed, you cannot fathom the lateral loads put on the car and suspension. It literally twists and shakes everything lose. Before I installed Bergman Autocraft sliders on my rear spring, the rear inside sidewall of my tires, which are 1.5" from the inner fender were rubbing when I autocrossed with 200TW Falkin RT66's! My safety inspection that I perform once a month during autocross season includes all suspension, braking, motor, trans mounts, hubs etc. I know I've pulled over 1.2Gs on course per SoloStorm software. Tim's car, with bigger tires and being 200LBS lighter will be higher.

What does HDK offer to the ProTouring community that's not available with torsion bars beside the oblivious advantage of header clearance?

Lowered stance without screwing up suspension geometry. I cannot lower my car an more than I have. My LCAs have the short bump stops with 1.08" torsion bars. It's a good combination on course, it's a huge compromise on the road. I bottom out.

Steering, the Borgeson box is a fantastic up grade on the street. It gives actual feedback and is quick. On the course, it's slow. It could be 30-50% faster.

Adjustable spring rates. It's certainly possible to change torsion bars, but it's easier with the HDK system.

Denny's didn't just build something to look at. He runs the same suspension in his GEN II Hemi Duster and Tim street drives, autocrosses and drag races his car.

Overall, on a typical autocross course, not much time will separate HDK and a fully boxed K-member with a Borgenson steering box. But the HDK suspension can get you lower without running out of travel. On the street or road course, additional suspense travel will make the difference between being safe and winning.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

You're still running the factory LCA's correct? With 1.08's that would definitely limit your ability to lower the car.

The QA1 tubular LCA's give almost a full inch of additional travel clearance, so on my car with 1.12's running lower isn't a big issue. I occasionally bottom the suspension, but it's fairly infrequent. My issue now is that at full compression my wheel kisses the top of the inner fender, so I'm body limited not suspension limited. My Doug's D453's are only 3.5" off the ground at the flange, so I can't go much lower anyway before the exhaust bottoms out before the suspension does. I probably only have about 1" or maybe less of clearance there at full compression.

The '73/74 B-body LCA conversion that Firm Feel used to sell gives even more compression travel than the QA1 tubular LCA's, but because of the exhaust and inner fender those would have to be dialed back with a taller bumpstop.

The new Falken's are very impressive, with my old 615k's I wasn't getting any rubbing in the back with my 1/2" spring offset and 295/40/18's. Now with a new set of RT660's I'm getting a bit of rubbing on the inner wheel well again. I moved a step stiffer on my Hellwig rear sway bar, but I'm still getting a touch of rubbing when I'm pushing through the mountain roads on the way home with the trunk full from my Costco trip.