NEW THREAD-Why we don't finish........

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Captainkirk

Old School Mopar Warrior
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Peaks, valleys, high and low points, ebb and flow, wax and wane, excuses, we all have ‘em.
But what makes up these mental/physical roadblocks that stymie our best-laid plans? Well, I have more than a few, having dragged this project (The Duke) on for more than a quarter-century, the reasons for, which we’ll explore. I’m sure you readers have many, as well. I bring this up, not only to face my own giants, but also to bring this out in the open for those of you who are beginning, or thinking about beginning, your own projects. I will list them as I think of them……in no particular order……as they come to me, along with any suggestions I might have for combating the enemy. Feel free to chime in at any time, or add topics as we go; especially those of you who have completed your project, or are well along on it. You’ve gotten to the magic place we all wish to be; what are your secrets for success?

Chapter 1-MONEY

Of all the problems that have beset me over the years, as with the demise of so many good marriages, it is money that has leveraged the greatest effect. (or lack thereof!) You simply cannot get a project off the ground without Funding! A similar sidebar to this problem is his twin brother, Under Estimating! You can’t embark on a cross-country trip in your car with $20.00 in your pocket without at least expecting to encounter unbelievable setbacks and difficulties; the same goes for starting a ground-up on a project car. No problem, you say? I’ll just work until I run out of money, then put it on hold until I get some more? NO! You won’t. Trust me on this one. You’ll faithfully bag & tag your parts…..and ten years later stare at the bags with the clarity of an Alzheimer’s patient trying to work a crossword puzzle, trying to decipher your own hurried chicken-scratch! I relay this to you with complete confidence in my statement, as I have traveled that road more than once on my journey!
But, back to money; for those of you who are homeowners, compare it to some of your home projects. Who could forget the re-tiling of the bathroom you estimated would cost $200.00 and ended up costing $1000.00 or more? You didn’t know the sub-flooring was rotten. How could you know the plumbing would crumble in your hands? See where I’m going? All I’m saying is, what ever you plan on spending, TRIPLE it. You may still fall short, but at least you may not come to a screeching halt!
Now, planning a project like this (depending, of course, on the severity or depth of the project) requires some forethought, and a commitment on your parts to allot, say, $100.00 a month towards your project.
WARNING! WARNING! DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!
Those of you who are married, take heed! DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT attempt to fly this ship under the radar of your air traffic control center (your spouse, hereafter referred to as “ATC”) or I GUARANTEE you will crash and burn! If ATC is not on board with your project, or at least in agreement of your allotted funding, you have no hope, and no chance of succeeding, barring the eventuality of a divorce, which will set the project back another ten years at least! I am not speaking from personal experience here, but rather from careful observation of friends and acquaintances, who have, in effect, “crashed and burned”. NONE of them finished, nor own, their project cars, which started the whole firefight to begin with, by the way. They were part of the divorce carnage. Food for thought, no? On a personal basis, when ATC told me I was entering a “No Fly Zone”, I voluntarily grounded the aircraft until conditions improved, rather than to engage in unarmed combat. Clear enough?
Once you have clearance from ATC, you need to sit down with paper and pencil and draft out a rough estimate of what you think your project will cost. Do not attempt to do this in one sitting. More ideas and changes/additions will come along as you plan. Once you’ve decided on a rough figure, TRIPLE IT! No, I’m not kidding. Practical experience has shown more often than not, this is an accurate statement. While you’re at it, triple the amount of man-hours you think it will take to complete the project.
 
either either im stupid or smart but i try and keep my projects as drivers. that way i can still cruize it and do things to it when i got the funds,and or parts. and i try and not do everything at once,that way i dont have it all disassembled, but if it is,i can still drive my other project,i only work on one at a time. (both my drivers are never ending projects,and they are both in my sig). if i know theres somethin i really want to do to it,ill just save up for that spacific thing and do it when the funds are right.
 
Well said! I agree 110% with the triple the man-hours you think it will take. Things I think I can finish in a weekend end up taking a month sometimes. Sometimes things do finish fast, but other things in life sometimes come before the project cars. Sometimes, the only time I can get a lot done on my car is when I take a vacation from work, so nothing else is in the way.
 
either either im stupid or smart but i try and keep my projects as drivers. that way i can still cruize it and do things to it when i got the funds,and or parts. and i try and not do everything at once,that way i dont have it all disassembled, but if it is,i can still drive my other project,i only work on one at a time. (both my drivers are never ending projects,and they are both in my sig). if i know theres somethin i really want to do to it,ill just save up for that spacific thing and do it when the funds are right.

I vote smart on this one!

I made the mistake of buying a car without an engine once about 6 years ago and it was the last time I'll do that again. I had it bad for a Charger and found a top banana '70 Charger R/T 4-speed in a local junkyard, rusty but complete minus engine and trans for $1000. It sat for a few years and I didn't have a place to keep it and moving it was a PITA since it had no power of it's own. I ended trading it, a '72 Swinger and two junk Subarus for a '79 280ZX which I eventually sold for $500. Had it had an engine that ran, the charger likely still be here with me today.

If you don't have a garage and you have to push it, just say no! ;)
 
Well.....before I consider the jump into the ocean, I like to read up on the fish that are in the mysterious sea.....then right before I jump I put on a Life Perserver.

The rest is history.

Do not get into a project that surpasses your capability.

Sometimes its better to buy a running/driving car than to build one from the ground up.

No shame in stating the truth!
 
dont forget projects that look good until you start taking it apart...
the horrors i find with every cut.
i went through this, i still have it.
its sitting in the garage while we work on the wifes project.

here's another one.
if your gal is into it. do their car first or you'll never hear the end of it.
 
I have always had my cars as drivers while I worked on them. My Dart I have worked on it during the fall, winter and spring, and drive it during the summer months. And yes, it will always take longer than expected. And cost more. But in the long run it is worth it.
 
I bought my Bel 1 in central Cali in 1999 as a roller and had it shipped to the east coast. I had a vision of an A9990-style street/strip machine. I was a total novice and it sat for a year before I began to take it apart. I learned quickly though and the more I'd 'learn', the more I'd go work on it. I finally had every nut and bolt off of it a year or two later.

It got painted in the fall of '02 but then sat for 6+ years. Every time I'd go to work on it, I'd find that I needed something - a tool to do this or that, supplies, a new bolt, just on and on. It was driving me crazy. I spent more time painting stuff that no one would see like under-dash bracketry and such. All I wanted to do was burn rubber but I was so far from being finished that it got demoralizing.

Also working against me were several factors. Number one was the garage I had is over an hour away in CT at my dad's house. (I live in NYC and don't have a garage of my own and they're cost prohibitive to rent around here.) It's also very small, dark and cold. My tools, parts and supplies slowly encroached on the work space to where I couldn't even get around the car anymore. Just not a good situation to be productive.

I was also spending money and time looking for and buying parts but they were just accumulating all over the place. I had stuff stashed in two states! The early B's require a lot of unique stuff, which is never cheap either. Just not a good way to go about finishing something. The fun quotient was going way down.

Also, during this time, I met my wife and naturally spent a good amount of my time with her. The car was furthest from my mind at that point. I'd tell myself I was gonna go work on it and time would just slip away. It sat and sat for years without any progress and it was killing me.

After a lot of thought, I sold it early this year. I figure I lost a few bucks in the deal, but I did OK. I felt relieved when it was gone. I was so happy to see it all go, the guy who bought it took EVERYTHING, even the old 6 cyl. radiator that I took out of the car.

My next project will be one that does not require taking the whole thing apart to paint. I will pay more for it if I have to. I'll try to tackle smaller projects, like re-doing the engine bay or putting a rear end under the car as opposed to re-doing and entire car. Hopefully I will bne able to drive it during that time too, so I can enjoy it on some level.

Whew!

Greg

Car.jpg


Greg-65-Bel-1.jpg
 
i completely agree. i have about 500+ hours into this car and ALOT of money. the "triple it" part is about accurate. i had always heard "double it", but it did go above that a bit.
 
Hi Have to agree with the majority. Buy the best/mostcomplete driver car you can afford. Parts chasing can be fun but can also nickel and dime you broke very quick. Bobby
 
O.K. After going through the ground up restoration process for the first time I have a few pointers.

1. Be truthful with yourself. There is no sense in thinking you can do all phases of the project if you don't have the knowledge to, or are not willing to spend the time to learn how to do it.

2. Don't plan on building an 11 second car if you can only afford a 13 second car. Speed costs big dollars once you get to the 12 second bracket. Stay with what you can afford and you won't be disapointed.

3. There is a lot of work you can do yourself that takes a lot of elbow grease. This is work that is easier with all the fancy tools that cost money but can be done in other ways.

4. Don't be afraid to do things twice to make it the way you want it. Don't be happy with, "That's good enough", just to get it done. you won't be happy in the end.

5. Leave the big ticket items to the end. Like engine, tranny and paint.

6. Don't buy everything you need at once at the first of the project.

7. Work on specific parts of the car at a time and finish them before moving to the next area.


This is just my opinion, but it sure helped me.

Jack
 
Biggest obstacle? DENIAL!!! It is THE reason we have the shop-worn phrases such as "double it" and "triple it". You deny it to yourself--and then to the wife. That's where the trouble starts. "If you're so damn smart, why did it take twice the time and money?", she says. Soooo, you look stupid.

This ain't rocket science. If yer reading this, yer on the Internet--use it. You can price it down to the last bolt. Wants and needs are two different things. Figure them out. Focus on one thing at a time once you have yer plan. DON'T be one of those guys that rips things apart willy-nilly, expecting to remember everything. You can't. Then you have a bucket full of crap that you promise her and yer friends that you'll get to one day--you won't. Again, denial.

If you don't have the drive and determination to finish what you started, STEP AWAY FROM THE CAR!!! Someone else will do it.

Not to be an *** or anything, but I have heeded my own advice on mine--under budget and on time.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=35645
 
You guys are scarring the bajeebers out of me !!!! LOL

Just kidding...This is my second Mopar build.The first one came out nice,but I did not tear it down this far.Like the last poster said,you have the internet,use it.Bag and tag everything.Take lots of pics with a digital camera.

I am very lucky in that my wife supports my hobby,I could see how it would be a "BIG" problem if she didnt.
Like anything, unless your "The Donald",money will be a issue. Take it as it comes I guess.

In the back of my mind I'm thinking "am I going to be able to put this car back together"?
Only time will tell.


Very interesting write Captain..........

Picture 590.jpg
 
I recently found that I stalled big on my project because I wasnt going to do it unless I did it correctly! I didnt realize thats what it was though.
I dropped the trans last fall and finally located a trans at a decent price (thers the $$$ again) last winter. It sat in my garage on the floor for the last few months. Knowing I had the trans and all I had to do was clean it, I couldnt bring myself to move forward with the build. Well I realized it was all because I kept telling mysef, "just go put the trans in, its fine just like it is" But I knew I didnt want it under the car without being cleaned up really well and painted, and all the details to be done.
I finally hauled the trans outta' the garage and cleaned it up. That action made the whole project get some momentum again. I soon gathered the rest of my parts and have a little motivation by thinking I can have it rolling again for the summer! Just all came down to not knowing I wouldnt allow myself to halfa$$ it! Definately know your budget! Mopar prices have risen like crazy! I bought a Grocery go getter and was proud to have the car no-one wanted back then, now even my little 69 2dr Valiant is sought after because all the high dollar B/E bodies are gone or cost wayyyyyy too much to build.
I have to say it will all be worth it. Too bad soon we will al have to drop our huge HP motors and put a damn electric motor in em just to keep em on the road! Damn gas prices!!!!!!!! Lata' and choose your project wisely!!
 
The old debate.... fixing up a project car. My opinion is (1) Find a car that you will love not just a "cool" car that everyone else likes, that way it's a labour of love not a burden.(2) Be realistic about the results that you want and the time/money you have available to you.(3) Build it your way, not what everyone else wants.(4) Do your research on prices etc before you spend any money.(5) Start out with a good body, as complete as possible, and get a good parts car lined up and buy it first or at the same time.(6) Be honest with yourself on your skills and abilities to do the project, and find a car that suits this.(7) Get factory service manuals before you start, one of the best investments you will make and Having a shop/garage available to you is almost mandatory so you can work on the car in bad weather,nights,etc (8)Where are you going to store the car as you are working on it and when it's done? These are a few of my recommendations, we all have made mistakes in the past, buying cars we don't have time or money to get to let alone the space, and looking for parts can be frustrating and time consuming. I agree with the statments all you guys have made about tripling everything especially the time factor. With careful planning, the costs can be close to your estimates though. The better the car you start out with, the better the result I have found, and you generally get what you pay for. Just my 2 cents.:evil4:
 
When I started my 63 Dart project I had the ambition, money, and time to really put alot of time and effort into it and the results were pretty good. Now that my car is a moving and running driver I find it really hard to take it out of commission to do the things that would make it more than a driver. It really needs the rear quarters replaced, rear panels and trunk need fixed, tranny needs rebuilt, and a couple other major things. Wish me luck
 
My advise is to only buy or start a project that you know you can
finish in a defined amount of time.
You must be realistic in you goals
If you start a ground up, two years max.
If you don't have the money or skills to finish in the defined
time allotment, buy something closer to finished and start from there.
It doesn't take long for a project to go from a joy to a burden.
I've watched many a project and dreams die the death of a thousand cuts.


You can always get more money, You can't buy time or your life back.
 
This is a great thread! Thought I'd add a little to my earlier post.

My project actually got me so interested in cars that I became a technician (mechanic for all you older guys). It really became clear to me that working on cars was what I was supposed to be doing with myself, not sitting at a desk in front of a computer.

And because of my training, things I had no idea how to do 10 years ago are now much easier. I've put together differentials, transmissions, built engines and suspensions etc. and probably most importantly become familiar with electrical systems and how they work. Things now go much smoother now and I've accumulated enough tools to do most jobs. I feel like I can 'bang things out' more efficiently now instead of fumbling my way through something without the proper tools or knowledge.

Also, there's been a lot written about people's spouses. I feel very fortunate because my wife is very supportive of my hobby/sickness and actually loves the fact that I work on cars. It's part of the reason she liked me in the first place! There's not many out there like her I suppose but I feel sorry for all you guys out there who struggle with those kinds of issues - it must be a real drag.

Even though I never finished my first one, my dream is to have a resto/muscle car/performance shop open one day in the not-too-distant-future. Having focus, ability and tools will all help to be successful in the future.
 
i agree with the "build what you want,not what others want",youll have more joy with it as its your own,and its different, thats why im gonna lowride my dart sport rather then let it show its muscles lol. about the $$$, plan out what you want, and like others said,double it,cuz plans change. not sure about the time though, i try not to figure that part out as i know itll take a long time to finish,if i ever do as my ride will ALWAYS be on goning projects as ill keep finding something to add to it or change.
 
Wow...you guys are throwing out some great ideas, before I've even written the next chapter! (I do have an outline, though!) What I'm hoping to accomplish is to identify some of the key sore spots that trip us up (as some of you have already nailed!) so that future/present project hopefuls can swerve and avoid the same pitfalls. I think most of us agree so far on the 3X budget factor, agreed? Or if not, let's hear your side of it. BTW, great comment on the Internet...you CAN price it down to the last nut & bolt these days! Plus, get real-time advice from FABO members who might've done this before!
 
A good way to save yourself some time and money is to look at "lots" when it comes to buying on Ebay and what not. Take it from me, my example would be my console. I seen and entire set up on Ebay with linkages, brackets everything to put it in for 250.00 and I passed it up thinking I could get it much cheaper. Well 1 year later I finally have all my parts and it cost me 228.00 and an entire year worth of time. Definately look at buying the "lots" of items. Even though you may not need them now, get all those parts, you can always re-sell them later and recoupe some money or fund more parts for your ride. Stuff like linkages and what-not are becoming hard to find and expensive too. I seen a "lot" of random kick down linkages go for 84.00 + shipping! Anyhow gather parts even if you may not need em'. Look how expensive and rare these parts are becoming, believe me you will be able to sell it off again.
 
I agree with everyone else, but there are obstacles you may not be thinking of...

Tim Hortons - That's right, everytime I go to work on my car I have to go get a coffee, consuming a good half hour of my time and my money!

Envious neighbours - That's right, everytime I go to work on my car, the neighbour comes along and wants to talk and gawk!

Cheap Tools - I have a lot of them, they break, don't work right...I should just buy less and buy quality.
 
1) Buy a Mr. Coffee and a Thermos.
2) Close the garage door.
3) Every time you break a cheap tool, punish yourself by buying a high-quality replacement. You'll learn!
 
I agree with everyone else, but there are obstacles you may not be thinking of...

Tim Hortons - That's right, everytime I go to work on my car I have to go get a coffee, consuming a good half hour of my time and my money!

Envious neighbours - That's right, everytime I go to work on my car, the neighbour comes along and wants to talk and gawk!

Cheap Tools - I have a lot of them, they break, don't work right...I should just buy less and buy quality.

I don't drink coffee anymore.

I don't like or talk to my neighbors.

I have a decent set of tools.

So what the hell is taking me so long? Oh yeah time and money....crap! :wack:


My main problem is the shotgun approach. I have Nikkis 72 my 53 Mercury pick up and a 84 chevy van all going at once and the 53 and 84 are an hour away that I go work on on the weekends and I try to do stuff to the 72 after work but Im too damn tired.
 
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