Supercharged or Turbo?

If you had to pick between a supercharged engine or turbo which would it be? I dont know if i would want a supercharger just to stick through the hood and scare people, or a twin turbo setup to stay under the hood and make some power!:snakeman:

Turbo, beastly power turbo quiets exhaust down for sleeper appeal :-D Once you've been in a built up turbo car trust me YOU WILL WANT ONE. When it's spooled and makin power it's awesome and will fry tires. Blowers are cool . . .if you're in the NHRA but I like riding or driving my friends turbo cars you launch and wonder is that it? then **** spools up and your put back in the seat and sideways or "hookin n bookin" as we say. With my Duster's somewhat low compression I've considered a turbo setup. If you'd like I can try to put up a link to my buddy's 10.3 second all stock 5.3 LSX turbo Nova with a turbo system he fabricated, he also just did a LSX turbo in a BMW 540i, can you say sleeper ? if you want a link I'll try to do it

Turbos overall are more efficient. The only reason a blower would be better would be if you really needed boost at low RPM's. You can make a lot more power safely with a turbo also (boost comes on "softer" than with a blower).

I have had both,each is fun in it's own way.

Turbo requires a ton more fabrication, headers and plumbing. Why not a centrifugal procharger? Fits under the hood and can be a bolt on deal. A buddy is building this 6.1 with twins and I know how much work has been involved.

It all just depends on $$$ and fabrication skill.

depends on the motor

if we are talking slant six that can go to a whole whopping 5k then roots style blower all the way,full boost at idle and effecient to 5k

if its a 360,440,426,413 then you need a centrifical supercharger will be at full boost at 2k-6k without overheating the air

now if some one here has a FULLY balanced blueprinted 340 or any other short stroke long rod motor(8-10,000rpm) that is where your angry turbo comes in no low end but the motor is set up to advantage of the high rpm power of an exhaust driven turbo system.

I have a turbo car and there is less boost at lower rpms, but it kicks in quickly and it is hardly noticable, (and you can power brake it to eliminate- no tire spinning, just boost). I hear blowers rob power, but it is probably minor. The turbo recycles, pretty kool.
I never had a blower on a car, but the turbo I have is a different animal than any car I have ever owned.
If you are not buying a car already done, then a bolt on blower is probably easier.

Twin turbo's,hands down. Monster power and driveability and decent mileage...

Who makes a supercharger or turbo setup for a 273 Commando engine? Of course, I'm still debating if I want to upgrade to a 340 or a 360. Would all small-block LA mopars have the same same setup?

My Scamp is going to the turbo shop shortly. I've got a T70 turbo for the efi'd 360. I can tell you from all my research, NOBODY makes a turbo "kit" for our Mopes. You can expect to do (or pay someone else to do) a ton of fabrication.

You can't really blame the companies for doing that though. Unlike most other car makes, Mopars usually don't need much help making killer HP and torque on plain old air, and wedge-head designs usually don't take to forced induction as well as a pentroof 4-valve design (most new engines) or crossflow Hemi-style arrangement.

Here's a company that makes Turbo kits for small block Mopars, I'm not sure about the price though...
http://www.wardracingenterprises.com/

I found my dream engine for my barracuda. Twin turbo 572 hemi, making 1600 horsepower on race gas and 1250 on pump gas. It cost's 46 thousand but would be worth every penny. Hopefully i can manage to put away 10 thousand a year for 5 years!


http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/new_engine_mopar.htm


:snakeman:

matthon said:

I have a turbo car and there is less boost at lower rpms, but it kicks in quickly and it is hardly noticable, (and you can power brake it to eliminate- no tire spinning, just boost). I hear blowers rob power, but it is probably minor. The turbo recycles, pretty kool.

Click to expand...

A blower does rob power. It is a crank driven mechanical device. BUT
The boost is variable. Though I'm not a fan of the idea of a pulley swap to do it, but that is how it is.

The nice thing about a blower, roots style more so than a centrifical unit is MAD torque from jump street on up with what should be superior top end HP.

The draw back is you need a very very strong bottom end on this set up or your tear up the bottom from unholy amounts of torque production.

On a turbo, I see you said "recycling." Alot of guys say it is free HP. While the system must be really good to be free. (I'm not ever sold on anything free except death.....) The exhaust still see resistance in turning the turbo and then getting dumped out the exhaust pipe. Sorry, I'm not sold on this being free and there has to be some restriction or power loose there.

But I don't know Jack. Tell me, anybody, how much does it take to turn a turbo? Can we equal this in terms of thrust?

If you are not buying a car already done, then a bolt on blower is probably easier.

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No doubt. But I gotta say, that whine of a turbo.....sweeeeeeet sweet whine of a turbo.......WHEW!

The nice thing about the centrifical blower s the compact and do come in kits. The supercharger store (.com it) is one such place. They can become almost as complex as a turbo in the possible tubing set ups.

rumblefish360 said:

A blower does rob power. It is a crank driven mechanical device. BUT
The boost is variable. Though I'm not a fan of the idea of a pulley swap to do it, but that is how it is.

The nice thing about a blower, roots style more so than a centrifical unit is MAD torque from jump street on up with what should be superior top end HP.

The draw back is you need a very very strong bottom end on this set up or your tear up the bottom from unholy amounts of torque production.

On a turbo, I see you said "recycling." Alot of guys say it is free HP. While the system must be really good to be free. (I'm not ever sold on anything free except death.....) The exhaust still see resistance in turning the turbo and then getting dumped out the exhaust pipe. Sorry, I'm not sold on this being free and there has to be some restriction or power loose there.

But I don't know Jack. Tell me, anybody, how much does it take to turn a turbo? Can we equal this in terms of thrust?


No doubt. But I gotta say, that whine of a turbo.....sweeeeeeet sweet whine of a turbo.......WHEW!

The nice thing about the centrifical blower s the compact and do come in kits. The supercharger store (.com it) is one such place. They can become almost as complex as a turbo in the possible tubing set ups.

Click to expand...

A turbo takes much less power than a blower, especially the Roots-type. If you have a custom cam purposely made for a turbo engine then there are minimal losses due to backpressure; valve timing has a lot to do with it. In fact, on some racing engines (I want to say rally car) with turbos they have a special system that advances the exhaust valve timing a whole bunch (while also advancing the ignition) at idle and low revs so that most of the fuel/air mixture is still burning as it leaves the cylinders, thus keeping the turbo spooled and giving you instant boost. You'd need some meaty valves/seats though in order to make them last through that punishment.

Turbos also tend to make more peak HP than blowers. Take a look at most high-dollar forced-induction custom engines, usually the twin-turbo ones make a good bit more peak HP than the centrifugally-blown or Roots-blown engines, with less torque on the bottom end simply because of the lack of boost. BUT if you match components carefully and go with the proper cam profile a good turbo engine will have nice mild "streetable" characteristics at lower RPM's but put your foot in it and after a bit you'll be holding on for dear life. It really boils down to how you want your torque; instantaneous and hard, or delayed and brutal.

have not tried it yet but i have one of these and i think it will it work out very good

twinsscrew supercharger makes big boost without so much heat

Never had a supercharger car but had a turbo with FI and an adjustable ECU. I liked the ease of turning boost up or down as I needed.

Question about a trubo setup, besides having the turbo/turbos and the required tubing and intercooler how does your engine have to be built to accommodate for the turbo? I heard that without forged internals you should be able to run about 7lbs of boost.

Neither. N/A all the way. If you want a real power boost go for NOS. By far the best bang for the buck.
The "Topshot" system sits inside your air cleaner. Cool stuff.

turbos hands down. ill argue that to the death they are superior. but i too prefer mean flat horsepower. I dont like to wait for my horsepower.

Bone stock it ran a 13.1 in the 1/4 on crappy tires on a hot day, now after many upgrades I wonder?
Too bad I haven't been to the track in forever.
I'd like to drive a car with a blower now so I can see for myself.

rayer: turbo

rayer:Turbocharged Engine

Turbocharged Engines like Low Compression.....in the neighborhood of 7.5:1, 8:1, or I would even recommend up to 9:1 CR.

Detonation becomes a issue over 9:1, and then you'd have to run 95+ octane all the time.

What I like about turbo(s) is: you can dial the horsepower/Tq up or down depending on boost level, with a Manual Boost Controller and a External Wastegate.

Choose a .7 bar wastegate and leave the boost there (10 psi) or inch it up to 1 bar (14.7 psi) or pour in some C16 and crank the boost to 1.5 bar, (22 psi) for some real fun.

Each pound of boost is generally worth 10-20hp depending on how the charge air is cooled...Aftercooled, or nonaftercooled..

Just for grins, here is a link to a 1971 Dart, Single Turbo 340 build up going on over at Turbomustangs.com

http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120439.0

Nice car, and setup!

I built my own "kit" for a '72 Valiant, with a 360 Magnum that was pretty much stock except for a HJoley 750, a mild Hughes cam, and some 340 Exhaust manifolds. Unblown, it ran 13.35 with an "open" 3.91 gear on some crappy, 8"-wide BFG Drag radials at sea level.

Sunday, I took it to the strip for the first time with the blower, which is a Vortech V-1, S-trim pretty much "entry-level" centrifugal unit.

I am running a 750 Holley blow-through (see photos) carb on a Crosswind intake, with the same cam (214/218-degrees at .050"-lift; .525" lift, with 114-degree lobe centers.) It is SO mild, it easily idles at only 475 rpm, making 14 inches of vacuum (for the power brake booster.)

ProCharger has a kit for these cars ('67-'76 A Bodies, I think), but I liked the Vortech blower, and got a good deal on one (new, on ebay, for 1 grand), so I made my own mounting plate and fabricated my own oil return, oil supply line, pulley and idler pullley setup (again, see photos), but anyone could do that.

The strip I go to is only 1,000-feet long, so I don't have any legitimate quarter-mile timeslips, but I do have 1,000-foot ones.

Here's what this blower did for me:

ALL 1,000-foot times, running 10 pounds of boost.

60-foot with open 3.91 ratio, unblown = 1.91-sec. hooked up pretty good
60-foot with SureGrip 3.55 ratio, blown = 1.81-sec. Slick track bad wheelspin

1/8th-mile unblown with 3.91 = 8.52-sec
1/8th-mile blown with 3.55 S/G =7.59-sec... almost 1 sec. quicker slick track

1/8th-mile mph unblown... = 82 mph
1/8th-mile mph blown = 93.63 mph

1,000 ft unblown = 11.00-sec. with a 1.91 60-ft
1,000 ft blown = 9.74-sec., with a 1.81 60-ft, which shoulda been lots quicker

Picked up 1.26 sec in 1,000-ft. with the blower.

1,000 ft mph unblown = 92.1 mph
1,000 ft mph blown = 105.04

Picked up 13.03 mph in 1,000 ft blown.

I have used a reliable online calculator to extrapolate these figures to a quarter-mile and here's what the computer says:

Unblown, 13.35 @ 102 mph (ctual run at seal level)

Computer estimate based on the above 1,000-ft times: 11.88 @ 118 mph.

The computer says the blower picked the car up 1.42 seconds and 16 mph in the quarter-mile.

It sure feels like it! When you shift into 3rd, it FEELS like you never shifted;
it just keeps pulling as hard as it was in 2nd... weird! But, I LIKE IT!!!:cheers:

Anti-detonation measures include (I have hypereutectic, cast pistons and stock, composition head gaskets), BoostMaster MSD spark retard, Boost Cooler alky/water injector, and racing (hi-octane) gas.

Two reasons I ran the type setup I chose are:

1. Flat hood; no scoop necessary; real-world stealth...
2. Centrifugal blowers come on slower; less chance to blow the tires off (did anyway)
3. Can't weld; turbo was too ambitious for me.
4. Path of least resistance; this was the easiest thing to do, IMHO.

If anyone has any questions, just email me at Billdedman@hotmail.com. I'll try to answer them if I can.