Upper hose is collapsing!

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phish1270

phish1270

phish1270
Joined
May 18, 2009
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Location
Iron Station, NC
When I drive the car & then park it, the next morning the upper hose is collapsed in on itself. If I pop the rad cap, it breaks the vacuum & the hose goes back to form. It is a new radiator, new thermostat, new water pump, new 13 lb rad cap & the car is not over heating although the engine compartment seems hotter than it should be. The air cleaner is almost too hot to touch once the car has been driven a little. I think I may have a circulation problem but I wanted to see if anyone else had seen an upper hose being sucked in. Thanks.
 
You need a new hose, and radiator cap. the hose is shot, and the cap is not allowing the resivour to fill back up. Spelling.
 
weird,i just found thats why my car was overheating too.i changed my hose and its fine now.
 
Don't know if this will fix your problem or not, but the owner's manual for my '66 Valiant calls for a 16 lb. cap. 13 may be a little low and cause your problem.
 
The motor supposedly has only had about 700 miles put on it since 2002 so it very well could be full of crud. "One man's project not done right is another man's nightmare & a mistake is his wife's eyes". I am going to pull the thermostat & leave it out, it sounds like I really do not need it especially living in the south. Then I am going to drain the rad, disconnect all the hoses & do whatever I can to flush out the motor. I will do some research on the rad cap pressure but I have seen guys on here running caps as low as 7 lbs. I just have never seen an upper hose sucked in before, something is creating a bunch of vacuum when the motor is shut off & cooling down. I just thought I would see if anyone else had ever had this issue because like most things there could be various causes & I hate just guessing. The flush should not be very costly so it is a good starting point. Thanks guys. Let me know if anyone has anymore ideas & I will post results as I try things. It is just about time to give up on this motor & start building one of my own.
 
phish1270 said:
The motor supposedly has only had about 700 miles put on it since 2002 so it very well could be full of crud. "One man's project not done right is another man's nightmare & a mistake is his wife's eyes". I am going to pull the thermostat & leave it out, it sounds like I really do not need it especially living in the south. Then I am going to drain the rad, disconnect all the hoses & do whatever I can to flush out the motor. I will do some research on the rad cap pressure but I have seen guys on here running caps as low as 7 lbs. I just have never seen an upper hose sucked in before, something is creating a bunch of vacuum when the motor is shut off & cooling down. I just thought I would see if anyone else had ever had this issue because like most things there could be various causes & I hate just guessing. The flush should not be very costly so it is a good starting point. Thanks guys. Let me know if anyone has anymore ideas & I will post results as I try things. It is just about time to give up on this motor & start building one of my own.
Click to expand...
It sounds like your cap is the issue. When the engine cools it is trying to draw coolant from overflow bottle (If you have one) If you do not have one then would still be cap. As the engine cools and contracts it will create a suction and draw fluid. If not and cap is not venting for overflow, it will not draw and the extra "vacume" will show as colapsed hose in the morning. It is got to be with the cap or cap gasket. Make sure if you are using overflow bottle you have a cap designed for overflow system. Alot of times with the new overflow kit they sell has a 2nd gasket to use if your cap was not intended for return system. I would still flush and check the thermostat in a pot of boiling water on stove before reassembly. If your not using over flow, same thery on drain hose. You can also take off drain/overflow hose off at cap and blow air through it to de crap, and don't use your lips unless it's cooled!!
Good Luck & keep us posted!
 
I am leaning toward the cap as well. With it staying that way all night it sounds like a pressure issue.
Mine would collapse under exceleration and was a bad hose.
Try is with out the thermostat to see if that's the problem. You really should use one though.
When you flush the coolant system make sure you run the water untill it flows out clear.
Hope this helps.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys. I am going to stop on the way home today & get another new cap to try & a 160 thermostat. My father told me to go without a stat but he is old school & from what I am reading online it is a bad idea to go with no stat at all so maybe a lower temp one will help with my vapor locking.
Any advice or tips on flushing out the motor? I am going to get a couple cans of whatever at the parts store & just follow the instructions. It is a brand new radiator so the engine itself is my real concern. Thanks
 
New cap! Happened to me right out of the box brand new. Buy another cap.
 
It is NOT the radiator cap unless I am the unluckiest person alive & I have managed to buy 2 different radiator caps made by 2 different manufacturers from 2 different auto parts stores, having different lb ratings. Bought another brand new 16 lb cap, installed it when I got home today, ran the car up to temp, shut it down & when I went back out a few hours later the upper hose was attempting to turn itself inside out again. It is a brand new radiator, is it possible it is bad? Tomorrow I am removing the t-stat & buying another upper hose & trying it again. I can't possibly be the only person that has ever had an upper hose collapse from vacuum as a car cools down. I have a cheap aftermarket overflow that is not pressurized in any way also if that makes any difference. I will post as I try different things while I hope someone that has had this problem finally happens upon this thread. I am also going to try asome local rad shops tomorrow for advice. Thanks guys for trying.
 
daredevil said:
could the little tip for the overflow hose be plugged
Click to expand...

I don't think so, the overflow hose is also collapsing but that does give me an idea. Maybe the cheap overflow tank is plugged. It is coming off the car tonight for inspection. It was only $8 & you get what you pay for. I just added it for now to keep antifreeze from spilling out. My plan was to get a nicer one once I get the car painted & drop a new motor in it; this one was just to do the job with little expense involved. Could a plugged little overflow line cause that much vacuum to build up? It is the flimsiest hose I have seen. Now I can't wait to get home & test the theory. Thanks daredevil.
 
When you installed everything, did you purge out all the air? Run it up to temp with the cap off, wait for the steam(t-stat has opened)then top off as necessary and reinstall cap. check again. All the pound rating will do is raise the boiling point 3-5* per pound.

Keep a 180 stat.
 
phish1270 said:
I don't think so, the overflow hose is also collapsing but that does give me an idea. Maybe the cheap overflow tank is plugged. It is coming off the car tonight for inspection. It was only $8 & you get what you pay for. I just added it for now to keep antifreeze from spilling out. My plan was to get a nicer one once I get the car painted & drop a new motor in it; this one was just to do the job with little expense involved. Could a plugged little overflow line cause that much vacuum to build up? It is the flimsiest hose I have seen. Now I can't wait to get home & test the theory. Thanks daredevil.
Click to expand...
Ok when you install, you clip the end the overflow hose goes into the bottom of the bottle. When you clipped that end sometimes what you use to cut it with will colapse the plastic. You open back up with a phillips screwdriver by ramming it up the tit you clipped for the hose. Install overflow hose using hose clamps they supply. I just removed a nice hose clamp & reinstall their cheap pinch style but it don't leak. After installing bottle and hose (going in the bottom of the bottle) You want to clip the top nipple off to allow for install of the old overflow hose (or another new one) onto the top nipple to allow for drainage of the bottle if the bottle should be over filled it will drain & vent throught the second hose. I usually run the 2nd top hose back thruogh the core support to in front of rad so if it over flows I would notice.
I run the cheapest $9.50 bottle kit I can find at any parts store. I have never had to use the big one for $14.50. It doesn't make the install as nice. See Pics, also see last pic of 1st install where the drain hose is drapped down along side of rad in front of core support behind grill. Also the last pic is a 2nd install where I didn't even run a 2nd hose or clip the top tip (see the little white ball ont top of the bottle?) and it still works.
It sound like:
The over flow hose is clogged by:
The cap not the right one for recovery system
Crap clogging the OF hose, BLOW OUT
Tit not being clipped before hose install
Tit colapsed during clipping
You colapsing the tit by overtightening non supplied hose clamp
Gasket in cap not correct for application
Also the cap on the right with the red thing is not the right cap!
I could do this all day!! LOL!!:toothy10:
Good luck & keep us posted!

overflow bottles 011.jpg


overflow bottles 012.jpg


overflow bottles 013.jpg


overflow bottles 014.jpg
 
redfastback said:
When you installed everything, did you purge out all the air? YES Run it up to temp with the cap off, wait for the steam(t-stat has opened)then top off as necessary and reinstall cap. DID IT check again. DID IT All the pound rating will do is raise the boiling point 3-5* per pound. I KNOW

Keep a 180 stat. WHY?
Click to expand...

Thanks
 
64dart170 said:
Ok when you install, you clip the end the overflow hose goes into the bottom of the bottle. When you clipped that end sometimes what you use to cut it with will colapse the plastic. You open back up with a phillips screwdriver by ramming it up the tit you clipped for the hose. DID Install overflow hose using hose clamps they supply. DID I just removed a nice hose clamp & reinstall their cheap pinch style but it don't leak. After installing bottle and hose (going in the bottom of the bottle YES) You want to clip the top nipple off to allow for install of the old overflow hose (or another new one) onto the top nipple to allow for drainage of the bottle if the bottle should be over filled it will drain & vent throught the second hose. DID I usually run the 2nd top hose back thruogh the core support to in front of rad so if it over flows I would notice. DID
I run the cheapest $9.50 bottle kit I can find at any parts store. I have never had to use the big one for $14.50. It doesn't make the install as nice. See Pics, also see last pic of 1st install where the drain hose is drapped down along side of rad in front of core support behind grill. Also the last pic is a 2nd install where I didn't even run a 2nd hose or clip the top tip (see the little white ball ont top of the bottle? YES) and it still works.
It sound like:
The over flow hose is clogged by:
The cap not the right one for recovery system NO
Crap clogging the OF hose, BLOW OUT WILL TRY BUT IT IS 1 WEEK OLD ALONG WITH RAD
Tit not being clipped before hose install IS CLIPPED
Tit colapsed during clipping NO
You colapsing the tit by overtightening non supplied hose clamp USED CHEAP 1 SUPPLIED
Gasket in cap not correct for application NO
Also the cap on the right with the red thing is not the right cap! HAVE CAP ON LEFT
I could do this all day!! LOL!!:toothy10:
Good luck & keep us posted!
Click to expand...

I am using the exact same overflow bottle. Just put it on last week. There is a possibility that the hose leading from the rad to the bottom of OF is clogged, I suppose. I will be taking the whole thing off tonight or tomorrow to inspect it. If it clogged in 1 week than I will be taking it off permanently & just dumping the overflow down & out as it was designed.
 
Okay here's the test...

Warm up engine and shut off, wait for hoses to collapse. Now, pull the overflow line from the bottom of your overflow bottle. The fluid should run out of the bottle. I bet the hoses expand and nothing leaks out of the bottle.

You said the overflow tube is sucking flat as well? If so the cap is working correctly and sending negative pressure into the overflow tube which is somehow plugged. If the bottle vent was plugged, it's sides would be sucking in also.
 
homecloned said:
Have you tried it with out the thermostat yet phish?
Click to expand...
That is the plan for tonight or tomorrow, time willing. I also plan on flushing out the whole system but it is a little involved. I will be pulling the overflow apart tonight for a closer inspection.
 
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