Fuel Fluke

griffin radiator is just up the road from you check them out

sixpakmopar said:

griffin radiator is just up the road from you check them out

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I'm going to check on this radiator my buddy has first... he said that he won't charge me the $300 that he bought it for. I know I will have to spend $300 or more for a new one. I might have to go that route though. I thought they had moved form that location.... not sure on that however.

Well fuel boiling has become a problem even more so for the last year since most of the states, and to some degree up here, have gone to 10% ethanol. Fuel injected engines don't much care but carburated engines hate ethanol blends. But I guess we gotto keep the corn growers happy-happy.

Terry

demon seed said:

Well fuel boiling has become a problem even more so for the last year since most of the states, and to some degree up here, have gone to 10% ethanol. Fuel injected engines don't much care but carburated engines hate ethanol blends. But I guess we gotto keep the corn growers happy-happy.

Terry

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That make the most sense to me, chalk one up for the global warming freaks. Washington State is really big on this.
Any suggestions about how to bypass this problem?

demon seed said:

Well fuel boiling has become a problem even more so for the last year since most of the states, and to some degree up here, have gone to 10% ethanol. Fuel injected engines don't much care but carburated engines hate ethanol blends. But I guess we gotto keep the corn growers happy-happy.

Terry

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Yep that's the gas I use ... Amoco gasoline.... 10% ethanol.

sixpakmopar said:

griffin radiator is just up the road from you check them out

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Update


OK .... I changed my mind ... instead of buying the used radiator I am now waiting on Griffin for my new radiator. It is a two row with 1" tubing. I hope I can go pick it up sometime next week! I'm also going install the mechanical fan back on and install the electric fan in front of the new radiator as a pusher. I've ordered a shroud also. I hope this will get the temp down and eliminate the fuel vapor lock or whatever it is that's getting to hot. I was in between a heat problem or trash in the gas tank and kind of assuming might be both. But after I got the car on the hwy and saw the temp just kept rising then I new the radiator wasn't cutting it. I figured I would take care of the heat issue first.

The only shroud I could find was a reproduction shroud from Mancini which is for a 16" fan. The fan I have is a 18" fan and to be honest it was very close to my upper radiator hose. I mean it was less than a 1/2" away from the hose. I didn't like that.

Question... does a 16" fan shroud mean that I need a 15" fan blade or is the shroud already made bigger than a 16" fan blade? I hope that makes sense.

Ok got the radiator... it has 1.25" not 1" like I mentioned.

Well I got my parts and everything is mounted. It took 2 1/2 gallons of 50/50 to fill it up. Got it running and went the exact same route I went when the temp got up to 210* but didn't make it all the way. The motor shut off on me again! I pulled over and took the breather off and the carb is saturated with gas. The stud that holds the breather had gas running down and pooling at the bottom. Now before it cut off I was patting the crap out of the accelerator to try to keep it running. When the car started acting funny the temp was dead on 185*! I cranked it back up by holding the carb to the floor and it whirled over a little while then cranked like it was flooded. I pulled in a parking lot and back off on the floats some and drove it and it still does it. It has the feeling like it is running out of gas once I get into 3rd or 4th gear but really don't know if it is flooding or what. Sometimes it will stumble in 3rd gear but then clear up and I'm on my way. I can tell the temperature is no problem in stop and go traffic, and going for a long stretch at 45 to 55 MPH but did not get to take it out on the interstate. When I got home I left it running and looked at the fuel pressure gauge and it was on 4.5 psi..... I want it right on 6.5 all of the time. It must be trash in the tank or bad fuel pump is all I can figure right now. The carb does not seem hot or all of the fuel lines. Im about to pull my hair out!

Second try today:

ok I removed the fuel filter that is near the tank (already removed and blew it out onetime didnt seem stopped up to me) and hooked the line straight to the tank. Unhooked the line from the fuel pump and blew 120psi into the line and tank. I could hear it bubbling like crazy in the tank. Hooked the line back up and took it down the road. Cranked it up and reset the bowl levels. I made it to the interstate this time but it started stubling going down the interstate but then it will go away then it will come back etc.... I drove about 6 miles on the interstate alone. Everywhere I have been today the temp has not been over 190*. The temp needle just stays right there all of the time and does not go up and down like it did with the old radiator. Thank God!

I bought a frickn' $20 stock fuel pump that I'm going to try next. I'll probably put it on tomorrow.... I have had enough today. I can't believe I'm taking the brand new Carter off and putting a stocky on! If this doesn't fix it then I am going to remove the tank and check things out.

Here is pics of the rad and shroud but they aren't mounted in these pictures.

Nice Rad. I think when you put on the stocky you`ll be good to go:happy10:

I ordered a new fuel tank, 3/8's pickup, straps and a Carter mechanical fuel pump from RockAuto.com for the 67 Notchback I bought 2 months ago. Everything delivered to the house $297+change. The car had been sitting for 2 years and had the original tank. Everything bolted in fine and the car started right up and runs great. The previous owner had reported that the only thing wrong mechanically was the fuel pump. Apparently he was right. With all you've been through, that's what I'd do. If that fixes it, great. If not, I'd take a look at the carb too. I'm no carb wiz and I just don't have the time and patience , so I'd try a different carb ( borrow one maybe ) and see if that makes a difference. Then you can get your Holley up to par or buy a new one. By then your pretty much new from front to back and with any luck you'll have solved the "Mysterious Case of the Fuel Fluke". Good Luck!

sumbitmopar said:

I ordered a new fuel tank, 3/8's pickup, straps and a Carter mechanical fuel pump from RockAuto.com for the 67 Notchback I bought 2 months ago. Everything delivered to the house $297+change. The car had been sitting for 2 years and had the original tank. Everything bolted in fine and the car started right up and runs great. The previous owner had reported that the only thing wrong mechanically was the fuel pump. Apparently he was right. With all you've been through, that's what I'd do. If that fixes it, great. If not, I'd take a look at the carb too. I'm no carb wiz and I just don't have the time and patience , so I'd try a different carb ( borrow one maybe ) and see if that makes a difference. Then you can get your Holley up to par or buy a new one. By then your pretty much new from front to back and with any luck you'll have solved the "Mysterious Case of the Fuel Fluke". Good Luck!

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Well I installed the stock type fuel pump and now the pressure is up to 7.5 and it seems it stay there all of the time. Yesterday when I got home and left it running the psi was only 4.5 with the Carter pump. When I got home today and left it running the psi was 7.5 with the stock pump.

But... I still have the running out of gas feeling going down the road in 4th gear. The car will run fine in the first 4 miles but after that it starts stumbling. When it starts stumbling I can let off of the gas and coast and it seems to "catch back up". If I mash the accelerator down in 4th gear and let off then mash it again it's like there isn't enough gas. I go the exact route every time and it always starts acting up at the exact same place!!! It's the weirdest thing I have ever dealt with a engine. I have a 500 cfm Eddy carb that I can try before I remove the tank again. I guess that's what I need to do.

Hmmm,:-k How ya like those Carter pumps now Mulli?8)

Ax, just a wild stab at the wind here.

Do you have "any" section of questionable rubber hose in the fuel system like maybe near the tank that may be collapsing shut on itself while under load?
If not.......

I second borrowing another carb for a quick let's see what this does.

mopar head said:

Hmmm,:-k How ya like those Carter pumps now Mulli?8)

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I'm not officially going to comment on the Cater pump until I drive it some more and see if the psi drops back down to 4.5 like it has many times with the Carter. I will let you know if it does. I did noticed that when I pushed down on the Carter's arm and pushed down on the stock pump's arm .... the stock pump blew more air out of it than the Carter did. Also the Carters arm travel seems limited compared to the stock pump.

cudaspaz said:

Ax, just a wild stab at the wind here.

Do you have "any" section of questionable rubber hose in the fuel system like maybe near the tank that may be collapsing shut on itself while under load?
If not.......

I second borrowing another carb for a quick let's see what this does.

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Yes I have a foot or so of rubber hose that is connected to the tank then to the aluminum fuel line running to the front .... then six inches of rubber hose to the fuel pump then about two inches of rubber hose to the aluminum fuel line going to the carb then another two inches to the carb. I have removed all fuel filters before the carb cause I'm at wits end.... there is only a small brass filter near the carb is the only filter devise present.
I installed new rubber FUEL type rubber hose when I did the engine install with new clamps that are designed for fuel injection.

Yeah I'm going to try another carb.


Just for the record everyone the new radiator, fan, and shroud is working excellent! I've already mentioned that once I believe but today it seemed hotter and it still works like a champ. I can let it just idle out there in 90* weather and it stays just a shade past the 185 mark. It cost the s--t out of me but I really don't think I will have to worry about it getting 210* or more like it was doing. *knocking on wood*

ok, my .02 time.... Just read your post and a couple of things come to mind.

1) Fuel sock in your tank is getting clogged.

2) Small air leak in the feed line to either pump. (could be inside tank)

Only 2 things that make any sense from what I have read. The fuel press dropping to 4.5 would mean it's pumping air instead of fuel.

Eric_S68 said:

ok, my .02 time.... Just read your post and a couple of things come to mind.

1) Fuel sock in your tank is getting clogged.

2) Small air leak in the feed line to either pump. (could be inside tank)

Only 2 things that make any sense from what I have read. The fuel press dropping to 4.5 would mean it's pumping air instead of fuel.

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Thanks Eric for chiming in bud!

1) Yeah that's what I'm thinking and is the reason I'm more than likely drop the tank again. If I do I'm going with a new tank and the whole 9... I'm tired of this. lol

2) Air or what I thought ... vapor. But since I got the temperature down a great deal now I ruled out vapor lock. It could very well have a small hole inside the tank or something of that nature.

80% says it's the tank related.

15% says it's something to do with the carb.

5% says I'm losing my friggin' mind!!!!](*,)

Eric_S68 said:

ok, my .02 time.... Just read your post and a couple of things come to mind.

1) Fuel sock in your tank is getting clogged.

2) Small air leak in the feed line to either pump. (could be inside tank)

Only 2 things that make any sense from what I have read. The fuel press dropping to 4.5 would mean it's pumping air instead of fuel.

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I agree. That's why I suggest new stuff from sock to carb. Just make triple sure the fuel lines are air tight. Then I dare it not to work properly!

Well I went ahead and ordered a new Spectra tank (comes with lock ring and gasket) and 3/8" sending unit (comes with new screen sock and return line out) from Rockauto. So if anything I will have nice clean healthy parts to deal with now.

For what it's worth, I had a fuel problem in my 67 ragtop Cuda which I bought after it had been sitting for years. I put in a new engine, fired it up and it ran for a day or so then stopped. The mechanical fuel pump quit pumping even thought it was brand new. I ordered another one, put it on and it lasted about another day or two. Finally I pulled the sending unit which I should have done from the start. The sock on the end was not even there and there was so much crap in the tank it was just sucking into the pump. Needless to say, I dropped the tank, dumped it, cleaned it and replaced the pickup tube/sending unit, sock etc. All is ok now that I have clean fuel. DUH!

cudajim said:

For what it's worth, I had a fuel problem in my 67 ragtop Cuda which I bought after it had been sitting for years. I put in a new engine, fired it up and it ran for a day or so then stopped. The mechanical fuel pump quit pumping even thought it was brand new. I ordered another one, put it on and it lasted about another day or two. Finally I pulled the sending unit which I should have done from the start. The sock on the end was not even there and there was so much crap in the tank it was just sucking into the pump. Needless to say, I dropped the tank, dumped it, cleaned it and replaced the pickup tube/sending unit, sock etc. All is ok now that I have clean fuel. DUH!

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Thanks for replying.

I really needed to replace the tank because it had some bad rust on the outside of the tank. It is located on the top of the tank. Somewhere in the cars life water was settling on top of the tank and rusting it out. I had one little pin hole that went all the way through. I dabbed a little urethane caulking on it and called it good. The inside of the tank wasn't in that bad of condition so I reused it. I should have replaced it! I know there is some trash in the old tank that is on the car now. I blew into the fuel line and I heard debris of some sort move across the bottom of the tank.
So instead of dropping the old tank and reusing it again I decided yesterday to go all new.

Dude, might as well mini tub that sucker now and put a fuel cell in it....

Just kiddin.

cudaspaz said:

Dude, might as well mini tub that sucker now and put a fuel cell in it....

Just kiddin.

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It's awfully tempting that is for sure. I really don't want to mess up the originality of the cargo area, gas filler, etc.... if it was a notch I'm sure I would have already done that. Maybe I'll give in later down the road when I can afford to do it.

I had a VERY similar problem. It was confounding yet I solved it.
I insulated my entire fuel line from the fuel cell all the way to the
carb with a D.E.I. (Design Engineering Inc.) product with a velcro
closure AND used a phenolic heat resistant carb gasket (3/8 inch.?)
Cool fuel, and a cool carb made my car run much much better. My
under hood temps were high (since corrected) and this heat made
my mechanical (oil filled) fuel pressure gauge make it appear that
I wasn't getting enough pressure. I insulated this too and it now
reads as it should. In short: keep your fuel as cool as you can between
the tank and the carb. I'm confident that this is the problem. Good luck!

Well guys it was the frickn' carb!!!!!!!!!!!!

I took the 750 Holley off and installed my old 500cfm Eddy carb. Drove the exact same route and when I got to where it always started acting funny the car just kept going! I drove around for awhile and even put some gas in it for tomorrows cruise in. Yipppeee!

The Eddy does not have the "punch" like the Holley does.... I find it very difficult to even bark second gear and the acceleration is lousy (I mean its only 500 cfm). So what do I look for on the Holley that is causing the stumbling? I took the front bowl off and looked in it awhile back trying to diagnose the problem. It did not have a spec of contamination in the bowl or float needle. Bad power valve?

I couldn't check how much fuel pressure I have now because the psi gauge is mounted on the Holley's fuel block. But whatever pressure I have the Eddy is taking it without trouble.... the Holley must need to have less or more pressure but I don't know which. So that's another factor I'm considering is there isn't anything wrong with the carb just not enough or to much pressure. With the stock pump I was showing a steady 7.5 psi the day I installed it and after I test drove it idleing in the driveway.

The Holley is a low miles deal.... I have not even had the carb a year yet!

Let me know thanks!

Congrats, now you`ll sleep better:-D I believe prw.val.`s operate @ low vac. higher R`s. Your`s is cruse/possibly heat related right? submerge and/or weigh floats. Blow out passeges, jets, vents, check sintered filters if clogged? weird indeed. You should still be under warrenty for parts:clock: also I think your pressure is spot on.

mullinax95 said:

I have removed all fuel filters before the carb cause I'm at wits end.... there is only a small brass filter near the carb is the only filter devise present.

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If that filtration device is one of those sintered bronze things (looks like a bunch of tiny metal balls mashed together), I'd take it out and run a normal canister filter. They've aggravated starvation issues for me in the past. Just out of curiosity - if it is one of the sintered units, is it in the line on the pump side of the gauge?