Alignment advice needed?

I have a 71 Demon that needed serious alignment. It didn't pull to either side, it tracked straight but the problem was that it had so much negative camber that it wore the inside of the tires down the the metal bands. I replaced the front tires and had it aligned.

Now it pulls hard to the right, but the camber is good. If I hold the steering wheel at the correct straight ahead angle it pulls a little to the left. It goes dead straight when I hold the steering wheel at about 7 degrees clockwise but if I let it go it just pulls to the right pretty good.

Any idea what the problem is? Should I just take it back?

I rebuilt the front end about a year ago and upgraded it to the 73+ big bolt pattern setup.

-Alex

The problem is the alignment shop. We had the same trouble with my son's 87 Daytona. Just because the car is "in spec" doesn't mean it's right. If the car is exactly the same on both side it WILL pull to the right on a normal crowned road in a country with left-hand drive vehicles. There also needs to be compensation for the most likely weight of the driver. Generally you will use caster to compensate for a pull because it is not a tire wear angle. List the current alignment readings.

When you need an alignment, stay away from the big chain shops. Look for a "mom and pop" type or find a good FRAME shop. The odds are you'll get someone who isn't rushing to get to the next job.

don

Our local NTB got high marks from my A body buddy's so I took mine there. They dialed it in tight. The guy was also smart enough to know that I would be back to get it realigned one the suspension settled in.

They let you go out on the floor and watch them work on your ride..so it kinda makes them more honest.

I took it to a Firestone. blah....

It pulls on flat road too, not just for the crown.

I might take it back on my next day off. You think I could take it to a different Firestone and get it done by a different tech or will they make me go back to the same guy?

-Alex

you have paid for it once through firestone so you might as well try to get right through them. takeing it somewhere else is going to cost you more money again! maybe try a different location....

They won't get it right unless they get lucky. What is the alignment now? They should have given you a printout. Did they measure and set the ride height first? That is part of an alignment on a Mopar even though some shops don't think so.

The only cars I have trouble aligning now are the FWD stuff because you really need to be under the car (car on a ramp lift) to get to the came bolts. Otherwise I do my own now.

Ideally you'd have slight negative camber (same on both sides) and just a bit more positive caster on the right side than the left.

Being an alignment technician I have set up an A body Mopar or three over the years..............

One potential 'snakebite' that many folks are not aware of is the centering valve on top of a power steering gear.........if it is offcenter one way the car will go right, if offcenter the other way, vehicle pulls left. It is easy enought to adjust; just loosen the 1/2" bolt heads and gently tap the valve one way or the other then tighten things back down.

Needless to say: we are assuming that the alignment is dead nuts and that the tires are OK as in no radial pulls.

I had mine done 4 times but the guy got it right. Some shops wouldn`t touch it, saying it involved having to set the cam bolts manually. I remember the days when mechanics used hand tools almost exclusively.Jeez!

Orionsax7 said:

I have a 71 Demon that needed serious alignment. It didn't pull to either side, it tracked straight but the problem was that it had so much negative camber that it wore the inside of the tires down the the metal bands. I replaced the front tires and had it aligned.

Now it pulls hard to the right, but the camber is good. If I hold the steering wheel at the correct straight ahead angle it pulls a little to the left. It goes dead straight when I hold the steering wheel at about 7 degrees clockwise but if I let it go it just pulls to the right pretty good.

Any idea what the problem is? Should I just take it back?

I rebuilt the front end about a year ago and upgraded it to the 73+ big bolt pattern setup.

-Alex

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Hi Thread,

I am not sure what a 71 Demon is bur if you email me the printout which you received from the alignment place, I will peruse it and see if I can make any recommendations FREE OF CHARGE.


Regards,

Mike (South Africa)
I am a wheel alignment specialist and own my own shop.

FYI - '71 Demon is the same as a Dart, Duster or Valient.

Bearhawke said:

Being an alignment technician I have set up an A body Mopar or three over the years..............

One potential 'snakebite' that many folks are not aware of is the centering valve on top of a power steering gear.........if it is offcenter one way the car will go right, if offcenter the other way, vehicle pulls left. It is easy enought to adjust; just loosen the 1/2" bolt heads and gently tap the valve one way or the other then tighten things back down.

Needless to say: we are assuming that the alignment is dead nuts and that the tires are OK as in no radial pulls.

Click to expand...

this is correct, there is another reason for the steering wheel being off center also. when they set the toe in , they didnt have the car "square " to the machine, or they set the toe in from only one side or all of the toe correction was taken at the wrong side......this is just sloppy work... the steering wheel has to be centered to correctly set the toe in, and some times both sides need to be adjusted, plus any one that works on cars for a living should test drive their work before returning the car back to the owner. I would make them fix it untill its right....and then tell everyone about them and never go back there for anything again...

Sounds like a caster problem to me. Caster and camber are the only two things that cause a pull, and if camber is good, then that leaves one left. Toe in automatically sets itself once the car is rolling. All that improper toe setting will cause is scuffing across the tire and noise. There may be a geometry issue with the '73 big bolt pattern (I'm assuming that is 73 control arms and spindle/hub). Also ask the tech who perfomed the alignment what the thrust angle was. If a front wheel only alignment was done and the trust angle was off that could have made your pull worse. that's my $.02. Good luck gettin it fixed :thumbup:

*edit*
There are more things to cause a pull other than caster and camber i.e. worn bushings, bent components, ect....but since you said you recently rebuilt the front end I wouldn't figure on that being the case. Probably wouldn't hurt to double check though. Caster and camber can cause pulls if they are out of spec or if were it is set for each of the front wheels is at opposite ends of the correct range of spec.

6T9 GTS said:

Sounds like a caster problem to me. Caster and camber are the only two things that cause a pull, and if camber is good, then that leaves one left. Toe in automatically sets itself once the car is rolling. All that improper toe setting will cause is scuffing across the tire and noise.

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6T9 GTS - I think you might be confusing caster with toe...

Caster mearly affects wheel return - has nothing to do with pulling. Camber and Toe are the two biggest reasons for an alignment pull.

Let me see if I can't help explain a few things myself here...

Toe - how far left or right of center on a horizontal plane - stand a tire straight up and down, then turn it left or right, this is toe. If there is too much toe out, you'll have major drifting problems while driving in your lane. Too much toe in, and you'll be prematurely wearing your tires (with either setting, premature tire wear will occur). A little trick with Mopars, set the toe in to about 1/8"... as you start driving, the force of driving on the suspension will tighten up all the joints and the tires will straighten themselves out. You'd be surprised at the change in handling with this!



Camber - how far left or right of center on a vertical plane - stand a tire straight up and down, now lean it left or right, this is camber. Excessive camber in either direction is bad!! Most good alignment techs will allow a little extra negative camber on the passenger side to compensate for the crown in most roads. If you're having premature tire wear on either the inside or outside treads, get your alignment check immediately! With a tire that has out of spec camber, the car WILL pull in that direction.



Caster - (this description was taken from http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm) - "Positive caster improves straight line tracking because the caster line (the line drawn through the steering pivot when viewed from the side) intersects the ground ahead of the contact patch of the tire. Just like a shopping cart caster, the wheel is forced behind the pivot allowing the vehicle to track in a straight line." Steering wheel return is also effected by caster, as well as high speed cornering.



Hopefully this relieves some confusion regarding alignments and what makes a car pull and what doesn't... feel free to ask me any other questions if you guys still got 'em!

If the caster is not the same from side to side it will cause a pull. Postive caster improves straight line tracking so if one side has positive and one side has negative it will pull to one side because the one side wants to track straight while the other wants to not track as straight. This works real well on a circle track car because the car wants to turn into the corner you just have to fight the car a little in the straight.

340mopar said:

If the caster is not the same from side to side it will cause a pull. Postive caster improves straight line tracking so if one side has positive and one side has negative it will pull to one side because the one side wants to track straight while the other wants to not track as straight. This works real well on a circle track car because the car wants to turn into the corner you just have to fight the car a little in the straight.

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340mopar hit it on the nose. Last night when I posted i was in the middle of writting a psychology term paper and I wasn't able to type what I wanted to say.

6T9 GTS said:

340mopar hit it on the nose. Last night when I posted i was in the middle of writting a psychology term paper and I wasn't able to type what I wanted to say.

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Very true. I forgot about that - if you look at what time I posted that, brain wasn't fully functional! Toe and Camber are going to have MUCH more of an effect on pulling than Caster will though! IE.... Caster is going to have to be off a LOT to make a car pull, where as toe or camber can be off as little as a few degrees and pull! :thumblef:

My front end shop has no specs for setting the front end alignment on my 68 Barracuda does anyone have those specs or is there a site I can go to find them?????
Thanks