4.0L HO Jeep Engine Build

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They must not have known what they were doing, 240 HP is what the mostly-stock strokers tend to make. Check this out:

http://jeep4.0performance.4mg.com/stroker.html

Wonder what a Voodoo (or other larger) cam, 10:1 compression, and roller rockers would do for one of the "4.6L low-buck" strokers. Wouldn't add too much cost either, if the cam had small enough duration to work with the stock injection system.

LMAO, nope they probably didn't. :) My build is kind of a mix between these two builds. Note that the second build makes more power than the first with the stock cam. I think that's interesting.

4.6L Low-buck, low CR "rockcrawler"

Jeep 4.2L 3.895" stroke crank
Jeep 4.2L 5.875" rods
Silvolite UEM-2229 +0.030" bore pistons
Increase piston dish volume to 30cc
8.75:1 CR
CompCams 68-115-4 192/200 degree camshaft
Ported HO 1.91"/1.50" cylinder head
Mill block deck 0.035"
Mopar/Victor 0.043" head gasket
0.058" quench height
Ford 24lb/hr injectors with stock 39psi FPR for '87-'95 engines, stock injectors with stock 49psi FPR for '96 and later engines
240hp @ 4700rpm, 315lbft @ 3000rpm

4.6L "poor man's" stroker

Jeep 4.2L 3.895" stroke crank
Jeep 4.2L 5.875" rods
Sealed Power 677CP +0.020" bore pistons
9.25:1 CR
Stock 4.0 HO camshaft
Ported HO 1.91"/1.50" cylinder head
Mopar/Victor 0.043" head gasket
0.088" quench height
Ford 24lb/hr injectors with stock 39psi FPR for '87-'95 engines, stock injectors with stock 49psi FPR for '96 and later engines
248hp @ 4900rpm, 303lbft @ 3500rpm


What I would really like is a cam with the stock duration and LCA, but with a lift in the .510-520 range in a hydraulic roller configuration. No one makes such a beast though (well, someone does but they want $2K for it and say that it will only run 20K miles before it wears out) . It is interesting that the stock cam is sufficient to feed an additional half a liter and makes more power at a higher rpm than the aftermarket comp cam, but less torque. 300+ ft. lbs from either engine is nothing to sneeze at, that's for sure. Let's see.... If I do a little math.... my engine should make about 215 hp, a 25 hp gain. I'll also be using '99+ intake manifold (which isn't really mentioned but is a much, much better design) and the early throttle body (the largest offered by the factory). Just maybe I might be able to touch a 30 hp gain. I may also get myself an adjustable fuel pressure regulator too.
 
Very good write up. Please (if you can) explain on how you figure out the compression ratio, how you knew you wanted the block shaved etc. I am in the need of doing my 4.0 and need to know all the math involved. thanks.
 
What I would really like is a cam with the stock duration and LCA, but with a lift in the .510-520 range in a hydraulic roller configuration. No one makes such a beast though (well, someone does but they want $2K for it and say that it will only run 20K miles before it wears out) . It is interesting that the stock cam is sufficient to feed an additional half a liter and makes more power at a higher rpm than the aftermarket comp cam, but less torque. 300+ ft. lbs from either engine is nothing to sneeze at, that's for sure. Let's see.... If I do a little math.... my engine should make about 215 hp, a 25 hp gain. I'll also be using '99+ intake manifold (which isn't really mentioned but is a much, much better design) and the early throttle body (the largest offered by the factory). Just maybe I might be able to touch a 30 hp gain. I may also get myself an adjustable fuel pressure regulator too.

Before I found that site I thought the variety of aftermarket 4.0 cams was really small but apparently Comp, Lunati, Crane, and Crower as well as the more specialty off-road companies like 505 and Hesco. The Lunati Voodoo line really blew me away though (again), their smallest cam has .484" lift!! The 256/262 in my Duster really rips and to have a cam like that in my Jeep would be bad-@$$.

Stock and aftermarket cam specs:
http://www.angelfire.com/my/fan/Jeep4.0Camshafts.htm
 
Very good write up. Please (if you can) explain on how you figure out the compression ratio, how you knew you wanted the block shaved etc. I am in the need of doing my 4.0 and need to know all the math involved. thanks.

Thank you Moparfreak77,
THe easiest way to figure the compression ratio is to use the KB calculator here: http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp You just enter the bore, stroke, cylinder head cc, head gasket thickness, head gasket diameter, piston to deck clearance and piston cc. Piston cc is entered as positive number for a dish and a negative number for a pop-up. I cc'd the head with a plexiglass plate, some mineral spirits colored with trans fluid and a 10cc (ml) oral syringe that I got from the local drug store for free for the asking. I also got a real world piston cc using the same method as I'm using dishes with quench pads.

Piston cc with domes can also be calculated by turning the crank until the dome just hits a straight edge over that cylinder, then measure how far the piston is down in the bore, calculate the volume of a cylinder, fill with fluid while measuring and subtract that amount of fluid from what a cylinder would be and presto, you have your piston dome cc. For me, it's easiest to calculate it metrically. So for example, say the piston is 10mm down in the bore and your bore is 92mm. First calculate total cylinder volume... diameter /2=r so r=46, radius squared is 2116. The formula goes like this Pir2h, (hard to show without math symbols) so 3.141x2116x10= 66463.56 Now we need to convert this cc's by dividing by 1000 so 66463.56=66.46456. We add fluid to the cylinder and find that we can get 54.5 cc's of fluid in. Now we subtract this from the cylinder volume and get 11.96 cc's of dome volume. :) Easy! I dropped the last digits as it's really not necessary to know your comp ratio to a hundred thousandth. :)

Now I could go through the raw math behind CR calculation but it's a ***** without a white board and having to do it on this format. The above was tough enough without mathmatical symbols. Here's link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_ratio

In regards to quench, you want it and I'll tell you why. When you have quench, whn the piston comes up it will squeeze the mixture out from between the quench areas on the piston and head at a very, very high rate of speed. This not only helps quell detonation but adds torque as well as it homoginizes the air/fuel mixture within the cylinder and there are no dead spots that will tend to detonate under compression as the AF is kept moving at a high rate of speed. In general, much higher compression ratios can be run with lower octane fuel and more power produced in similiar engines. :read2:

For quench to have any effect, there must be quench pads on both the piston and head. If you take a look at my previous pictures of my pistons and head, you'll see the pads on both. The piston to head clearance should also be less than .060" and smaller is better although a builder has to allow for piston expansion and rod stretch on any given build. I like to shoot for .040" but I know many people who get away with .025" but that is way pushing it.

After first having my head and block decked for straightness, I mocked everything up and found that the piston was still .033" in the bore. So here we have this lovely compact head chamber with a generous quench area and pistons with quench pads but it's not being utilized by the factory. This is mostly due to manufacturing time limitations and generous casting tolerances.

For me to achieve quench on this build with a .040" gasket I had to have the block milled an additional .030". Why not .033"? Because the rod length tolerance is .002" and that must be brought into the equation.

I hope this answered your questions. :read2:

Before I found that site I thought the variety of aftermarket 4.0 cams was really small but apparently Comp, Lunati, Crane, and Crower as well as the more specialty off-road companies like 505 and Hesco. The Lunati Voodoo line really blew me away though (again), their smallest cam has .484" lift!! The 256/262 in my Duster really rips and to have a cam like that in my Jeep would be bad-@$$.

Stock and aftermarket cam specs:
http://www.angelfire.com/my/fan/Jeep4.0Camshafts.htm

Great info Mopekid! I wanted to use the stock rockers as adjustable roller rockers from MP are almost $900 a set so that dictated cam choices and I'll still have to shim the rockers with the milling that was done. That first Lunati cam is very, very tempting though but I still have to worry about emissions. If I had more money to burn and emissions were not an issue, I'd go with that Lunati and Yella Terra adjustable rockers (about 600 a set). An adustable MAP sensor or possibly a Megasquirt system might be neccesary to take full advantage of that cam though and I haven't researched how that would affect the rest of the computer controlled items like speed sensors, tach, ABS, Speedometer, engine warning lights, etc....
 
Great info Mopekid! I wanted to use the stock rockers as adjustable roller rockers from MP are almost $900 a set so that dictated cam choices and I'll still have to shim the rockers with the milling that was done. That first Lunati cam is very, very tempting though but I still have to worry about emissions. If I had more money to burn and emissions were not an issue, I'd go with that Lunati and Yella Terra adjustable rockers (about 600 a set). An adustable MAP sensor or possibly a Megasquirt system might be neccesary to take full advantage of that cam though and I haven't researched how that would affect the rest of the computer controlled items like speed sensors, tach, ABS, Speedometer, engine warning lights, etc....

The first site I linked to has some interesting info on tweaking the timing and A/F ratio. You can add a potentiometer setup to the MAP sensor to tweak the part-throttle A/F, elongate the CPS mounting holes for more timing advance, relocate the MAT sensor to the air cleaner to richen WOT, and add in an adjustable fuel pressure regulator for even more A/F tuning. However this stuff only really works on the '96-down engines, as you said the later OBD-II computers are more sensitive to mods. The auto-trans computers are also a little less tune-able than the manual-trans ones. If you look at that stroker list again you can see the stock PCM is still good up to ~275 HP, even with the "big" Comp 206*/214* @ .050" cam. The trick is properly-sized injectors and playing around with the sensors and fuel pressure. Higher compression would also allow you to run a bigger cam with the stock computer, of course.
 
The first site I linked to has some interesting info on tweaking the timing and A/F ratio. You can add a potentiometer setup to the MAP sensor to tweak the part-throttle A/F, elongate the CPS mounting holes for more timing advance, relocate the MAT sensor to the air cleaner to richen WOT, and add in an adjustable fuel pressure regulator for even more A/F tuning.

Yep, I'm aware of the MAP sensor mods. :) The problem with the CPS mod that it's a bear to get to and and it increases timing across the board. There's really no way to increase initial and limit total. The pressure reg is again, another 130 bucks.

However this stuff only really works on the '96-down engines, as you said the later OBD-II computers are more sensitive to mods. The auto-trans computers are also a little less tune-able than the manual-trans ones. If you look at that stroker list again you can see the stock PCM is still good up to ~275 HP, even with the "big" Comp 206*/214* @ .050" cam. The trick is properly-sized injectors and playing around with the sensors and fuel pressure. Higher compression would also allow you to run a bigger cam with the stock computer, of course.

Just because one guy wrote that about the PCM doesn't really mean I believe it 100%...... I'd prefer to build a Megasquirt system to have complete control over spark and advance, but then again we have integration issues with the factory stuff. I'll know more once I actually get this thing running and pick up an Innovate or get it on a rear wheel dyno and get a A/F graph. Maybe I'm just overly cautious because I have to pass emmisions. Keep in mind that it's the overlap that will cause issues on a computer controlled engine. Regardless of the compression, the computer will see more unburnt fuel at the O2 sensor at low speeds and it will try to lean it out.
 
Cool thread.

I always liked the 4.0l Jeep motors and really got the chance many times to beat the living crap out of jeep cherokees while working at a rental car outfit years back.

I would take them in the woods and go ape-shight with em, also in the snow and pavement.
We used to have push-o-wars with the guys from other rental outfits and burnout contests.

They are definitely the little engine's that could.

I always wanted to see what one of them would do in a small A-body Mopar.
 
Just because one guy wrote that about the PCM doesn't really mean I believe it 100%...... I'd prefer to build a Megasquirt system to have complete control over spark and advance, but then again we have integration issues with the factory stuff. I'll know more once I actually get this thing running and pick up an Innovate or get it on a rear wheel dyno and get a A/F graph. Maybe I'm just overly cautious because I have to pass emmisions. Keep in mind that it's the overlap that will cause issues on a computer controlled engine. Regardless of the compression, the computer will see more unburnt fuel at the O2 sensor at low speeds and it will try to lean it out.

Yeah it would be a better choice, I'd probably go aftermarket also once I reached the point of a full-on stroker. One thing also about the author of that website is he's located in Al-Ain, UAE which is hot as hell and at sea level so it would be easier to tune than up here in the Rockies.

Some day I want to drop a gnarly 4.0 stroker in an old AMC Rambler, like this guy did:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9K_DcF_CXo"]YouTube- Autocrossing AMC Rambler[/ame]
 
That did answer my questions thank you and please keep the info comin. :)

You bet Moparfreak!

Cool thread.

Thanks. 8)

I always liked the 4.0l Jeep motors and really got the chance many times to beat the living crap out of jeep cherokees while working at a rental car outfit years back.

I got one for a loaner when my '97 Dakota was in the shop. I never really thought about them until I took that sucker out and romped on it. I was definitely suprised.

I would take them in the woods and go ape-shight with em, also in the snow and pavement.
We used to have push-o-wars with the guys from other rental outfits and burnout contests.

LMAO! I wish I had a video of that... :snakeman:

They are definitely the little engine's that could.

I always wanted to see what one of them would do in a small A-body Mopar.

I bet a 4.7L one of these would rock! Supercharger kits are readily availible too.... Just food for thought. You wouldn't have to worry about emissions either.

Yeah it would be a better choice, I'd probably go aftermarket also once I reached the point of a full-on stroker. One thing also about the author of that website is he's located in Al-Ain, UAE which is hot as hell and at sea level so it would be easier to tune than up here in the Rockies.

Some day I want to drop a gnarly 4.0 stroker in an old AMC Rambler, like this guy did:

YouTube- Autocrossing AMC Rambler

That is cool! 8) I don't even think that's a stroker either.
 
A stock 4.0 is a pretty good package, and yours should be a little better yet. Just don't forget to break the edges of your chambers with some 180 grit. The broach leaves some real sharp edges.
 
A stock 4.0 is a pretty good package, and yours should be a little better yet. Just don't forget to break the edges of your chambers with some 180 grit. The broach leaves some real sharp edges.

Thanks C130, I'll check that out tonight. :read2: Yep, a little better than stock, I'm not expecting huge gains but more a very long lasting super stock engine.
 
A few days back I blew off dinner, grabbed a big mug of java and got to work.

1. Here we are with the factory main cap brace installed.
2. This is the cheapy gasket I got with the MP HV oil pump.
3. I replaced it with this gasket from the gasket kit from Rock Auto. Fel-Pro all the way!
4. The HV pump requires a little clearancing on the oil pan but not much really. A propane torch and a ball-peen hammer took care of business. Keep in mind that there are two bolts that hold the oil pump on. The lock washer goes on the short bolt and the lockwasher and flat washer go on the long bolt. Dont forget the big dowel pin!
5. You can see here where I made the "modification". :-D I double checked clearance between the pick up and pan after bending the pickup to match the bottom of the pan. Nothing more than some muscle is required here.

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Well, I couldn't stop there. :-D

1. New cam. :)
2. Here's the Speed Pro Part Number.
3. Note that the old early cam used a roll pin to locate the cam gear.
4. The new early Speed Pro uses a hardened solid steel pin. I like that and it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. This unit is very well made.
5. This is the old late style cam. Note that the nose is completely different from the early style cam. This is because these cams used a cam retainer plate, a key to locate the cam and a Hy-Vo style cam chain. I prefer the retainer plate and key, but I have no choice here. All aftermarket cams of the early style.
6. This is the late style retainer plate. We are simply not going to reinstall it.
7. Late style stock Hy-Vo cam chain.
8. New roller replacement from Cloyes. They make really good stuff. Note the hardened crank gear teeth.
9. The top of this photo is the early system that will be retaining my cam. It's a large bolt with a captive large washer, a spring and a oil fed plunger that pushes against the cam cover. An early style cam cover has a button cast in that the plunger rides against. It's a little Rube Goldberg but none of it showed any undue wear after 240,000 miles so back in it goes. Yes, I cleaned it first and be aware that the plunger has a spiral groove to allow oil out.
10. I used my dial indicator to find TDC and the dots aligned right up. I will be degreeing this, but the only way to change installed LCA is to drill out the cam gear and install offset bushings. I hope it's right on.

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Quote= I hope it's right on.
I would lay odds it is knowing you did it ramcharger
You should be getting close to setting that updated 4.? in
 
I should give you all the specs so far:

Crank Bearings: .002"
Rod Bearings: .015"
Crank Axial Play: .004"
Block milled total: .037"
Head Milled Total: .006"
Piston to Head Clearance: .040" (Gasket is .040" compressed)
Head Chamber: 59cc
Piston CC: 15cc
Piston to Wall Clearance: .001"
Piston Pin to Piston: .0008" (3 ten thousandth's over stock spec, my machinist prefers a pin bore a little on the loose side to prevent galling)
Ring End Gap: .015"-.018"

Let me know if I forgot anything.
 
Quote= I hope it's right on.
I would lay odds it is knowing you did it ramcharger
You should be getting close to setting that updated 4.? in

Mike, it all depends on tolerance stacking. I may have got lucky, I may have not... We'll see. :)

Getting there Mike! The dealer should have my new valve spring retainers in today, I hope. They lost the last order....:angry7: Dumbasses...
 
Easy there Joe!!! You'll get your blood pressure boiling. Who was the dealer and GREAT BUILD THREAD!!!
Did the cam degree in?

Ah... I shouldn't be so hard on these guys. They ordered 12 and got 13 and just passed it on to me. They said it was easier to just give me the dang package of 13 than to try to fix it with Chrysler, lol. They've been good to me in the past and the guys always can find the parts in the computer. Yes, they only charged me for 12. These are pricey little guys too @ 7 bucks a crack. It was GO Chrysler Jeep on South Broadway. Now what the heck am I going to do with one extra retainer though?

Didn't degree it yet.... Drinking St. Pauli Girl right now. :toothy10:
 
OK, checked spring installed height and found that I'm going to need more shims than I have laying around. I can only get these in boxes of fifty so if anyone needs any in the future, PM me, lol. Spring installed height on early engines is rated 66-74 lbs. @ 1.625", the springs for the later engines are rated 71-79 lbs. @ 1.640". I'll be using the later springs.
 
OK, been doing a little more research via the link that Mopekid kindly provided and realized that the factory installed this cam 8 degrees retarded! I know that Ford did this to decrease emmisions in the mid 70's which really turned a lot of potententialy good engines into dogs.

This is really a an HO engine from the factory and was wondering what would happen if I advanced the cam from it's present setting to straight up or only 4 degrees retarded? Decisions, decisions, decisions.... I can get an offset bushing kit for about 30 bucks but I sure as hell don't want to tear this thing back down if it runs like crap. Also.... since the distributor is non-adjustable, by advancing the cam, I'd also be advancing the timing by a TWICE as much in crank degrees with no way to dial it back.. Hmmmmm.

I better leave it the hell alone, lol. Dang computer cars....
 
Joe refresh my memory. Did you increase the compression? Is this cam bigger than the stock cam or is this the stock cam? Sorry to ask what I'm sure has already been written but I don't remember or have time to read through 96 posts to find out, LOL... Anyway my reason to ask is if you didn't increase the compression (or even if you did a small amount) I don't think advancing the cam 4 degrees would hurt. If the cam is bigger than the stock cam it surely wouldn't hurt since it probably won't make as much low end pressure. At the worst you might have to run mid grade fuel but I think the perf. boost would even be worth that.

Speaking of how Ford retarded their cams for emissions. I think some others did it too. Back when I was a kid I had a 74 Monte Carlo with a 350 4 barrel. I read in a magazine that mentioned them doing that also so I bought a new timing set with the 4 degree advance/retard keyways and put it in 4 advanced. Man did it run better. Felt like it picked up 25-30 ft. lbs. of torque.
 
Joe refresh my memory. Did you increase the compression? Is this cam bigger than the stock cam or is this the stock cam? Sorry to ask what I'm sure has already been written but I don't remember or have time to read through 96 posts to find out, LOL... Anyway my reason to ask is if you didn't increase the compression (or even if you did a small amount) I don't think advancing the cam 4 degrees would hurt. If the cam is bigger than the stock cam it surely wouldn't hurt since it probably won't make as much low end pressure. At the worst you might have to run mid grade fuel but I think the perf. boost would even be worth that.

Nominal CR for these is supposed to 8.8:1 but after taking 7cc's out of the chamber and taking another .037" out of the deck, I'm running a measured 9.23:1 CR. This is from taking true cc measurements of the chamber and deck/piston plus adding in the measured diameter of the gasket bore and compressed thickness. The cam is stock for a '92

Speaking of how Ford retarded their cams for emissions. I think some others did it too. Back when I was a kid I had a 74 Monte Carlo with a 350 4 barrel. I read in a magazine that mentioned them doing that also so I bought a new timing set with the 4 degree advance/retard keyways and put it in 4 advanced. Man did it run better. Felt like it picked up 25-30 ft. lbs. of torque.

I wouldn't be suprised a bit if GM retarded their cams too. :-D I knew for a fact that Ford did so I used them as an example.

I have to admit my biggest concern is the ignition timing advance that would result from advancing the cam. Presently the cam is 8 degrees retarded, if I were to advance the cam 4 degrees to a 4 degree retarded postion my ignition timing would be advanced 8 degrees...... Wait a minute, I just had a brain storm.... the timing is controlled by a crank position sensor, not a cam or distributor sensor.... but it still may put the rotor in the distributor out of phase..... Hmmmmm. More thought is necessary on this and I just got back from a call-out for work and my brain is sparking intermittantly..... :-D I need to sleep on this.
 
I understand. 8 degrees more ign. timing plus more cam timing does equal quite a bit more cyl. pressure and since the dist. is not adjustable it may create a phasing problem. do you think there is any way you could modify the crank position sensor to be adjusted? I've seen guys do it on other engines. If you could make it adjustable, or even just figure out how to retard it a few degrees that should be good enough.

BTW: back in the day when you were tinkering with Ford's did you ever try advancing the cam timing on any to see what it did? I remember working at a trailer shop that had a 1 ton Ford with a 351 modified that was shot and the boss asked me how we could make it have more power. I said since we had to change the engine anyway we should put in a 400 modified. Man was that thing a pig. I tried everything I knew at the time, timing re-curve, carb jetting, (but I didn't know they retarded the cams) and nothing made it run any better than the old worn out 351. If I had known about the cam timing I would have tried advancing it. It was also terrible on fuel. Best it ever got was about 6-7 mpg. The old worn out 351 got about 10 mpg.
 
I built a 400M and added Austrailian closed chamber 351 Cleveland heads, forged pistons, a Crane Fireball cam (am I dating myself? lol), an Accel dual point, a VS 750 Holley, a Holley Street Dominator intake and Hooker headers and this Torino would do 140 easy and cruise 120 all day long. I made it from Carbondale to Chicago in 4.5 hours when my girlfriend was going to SIU. :-D I never tried advancing the stock cam on one though. These engines had a tremendous amount of unrealized potential and John Kaase just won the Engine Masters competition with one. I even raced a Grand National with this Torino and blew right by when the computer killed the fuel at 130-135. BTW, this was on a very straight four lane hwy very late at night. :-D BMW drivers jaws dropped when they found out that I had another gear at 110. Obviously, it had a 2.73 rear gear. :)

Anyway, enough "Glory Days" reminiscing, lol. I could pull the timing back by sloting the CPS attachment screws to the bellhousing and I may be able to phase the distributor correctly with modifications, but it would be very tough to figure out how far the timing was really reduced and it's almost impossible to get at with everything assembled. I really have to put some thought into this mod and try to justify to myself that it's really worth it. If the CPS truly controls then ignition, the cam advance should not effect timing, so that just leaves rotor phasing as an issue. I also am a little leery of the bushing installation in the cam gear as I've never done that before. I assume it's a press fit? I hate to have that bushing fall out.....

Here's the detailed factory cam specs. I may run a dyno sim and see if it's worth it.

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