What headers work, and what don't?

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Hersbird said:
I'd bet that the tooling used to build the least expensive headers is actually the best out there. TTi is not using anything more exotic then the other guys. What makes the ttis more expensive is where and who is building them. I could also see them being that expensive if they were going through the CARB certification of late model applications, but they are not. What they are doing is making lots of profits, there is nothing wrong at all with that, but don't pretend that they are not. Me, I'll have my slaves over in China whip me out another set when I need them.
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Which will be every couple of years depending on how often you drive it,those cheap crapola headers hit everything on the road that's
higher the 1"..TTI'S hit nothing!!! and can be installed in an hour or less,and the starter slips right in and out and they're made here in AMERICA!!! which is another reason for me to buy them...bottomline if you can afford TTI'S buy them,they'll be the LAST header you ever buy..
 
I'd bet that the tooling used to build the least expensive headers is actually the best out there. TTi is not using anything more exotic then the other guys.
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have you seen a set of cheap headers in person next to a set of tti ? the flanges and material used in the tubes are so much nicer on the tti. tti fit great and don't stinking leak.
 
Hersbird said:
I'd bet that the tooling used to build the least expensive headers is actually the best out there. TTi is not using anything more exotic then the other guys. What makes the ttis more expensive is where and who is building them. I could also see them being that expensive if they were going through the CARB certification of late model applications, but they are not. What they are doing is making lots of profits, there is nothing wrong at all with that, but don't pretend that they are not. Me, I'll have my slaves over in China whip me out another set when I need them.
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think you misunderstood me there or maybe i wasnt clear enough, what i tried to say was that the tooling for this kind of tubebending is very expensive and if are doing less application specific stuff and your market is making 1 5/8" primarytubes for a chavysmallblock passanger car you can and will make alot more parts with the same tooling and fixtures than trying to build some very good fitting mopar a-Body headers, and making the headers to fit everytime means the fixtures need to be very solid and wellbuilt to not warp over time from wellding heat, and not to forget it takes a person who knows how to weld and use the fixture to make something that fits everytime, i think this is the biggest problem with the cheaper headers.. also steel is not for free and using thicker gauge tubing will cost more just as using thicker flanges and that also means more power has to be used to properly cut and form the material, its alot of things making an expensive package.. also sure making profit is a good thing and i think that it is right as loong as the product you are making the profit on is first class
 
There's a huge difference between TTI's and regular shelf headers but it mainly comes down to your priorities- I always build my junk on a budget- tight one at that so I'll run the $159 hookers and find a better place to spend the other $600.

We put TTI's on my buddys Dad's car but he has a larger budget - my car has a stock block iron head small block with an 833, his car has an X block 422 with indybrocks and a Passon 18 spline 833 with a gear vendors hanging off the back so spending $1300 on headers and exhaust isn't a big part of the budget.

Driving habit has a lot to do with tearing up the cheap headers, you have to watch potholes, dips in the road, entrances to parking lots/driveways etc, with my last Duster I drove it for 3 years and never scraped them, the guy I sold it to ripped the 2 bottom tubes open the first night he had it.
 
longdart69 said:
Okay everyone I just looked on Dougs website p/n d453-r is what I think your talking about. When you go to the notes it says does'nt fit 727 tranny. This is a problem for me I'm going to run a A518. Is TTi my only choice here? My car is a 70 dart 408 stroker engine.
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They fit with a 727 trans... Done it before and a few members here have done the install recently. They also fit with spool mount 73+ k frames. Why Dougs doesn't update that info is beyond me.

Like said, two choices for good headers that don't hang low, Dougs and tti. Period.
 
Ok, so I see a lot of people are saying that only TTIs and Dougs are the best full length headers for clearance....how 'bout some pics of the fitment?

The old forum adage... this post is useless without pictures!

Well, almost useless...LOL!
 
Dougs...
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tti
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I had Hedman "Aluminized" headers bought in 96. Biggest pieces of crap I ever monkeyed with. I had to jack the motor up on each side at a time. And to top it off, the flange was bent and it never sealed right even after beating it into place. They drug on the ground (had new shocks, was stock front end v8 torsion bars) and just overall a piss-poor header.

Of course we'd all love to pay the lower price for better headers, but thats not happening. Would you go to a gas-station that is known to have cheap gas simply because its cheaper, perhaps with the rationalization that you'll rebuild whatever damage is caused by this cheap gas every few years? Spend the extra money on pipes that don't scrape or drag and they will outlast the cheap stuff.

Keep in mind the time it takes to rip them out every couple years. My time is worth alot and would rather do it once than futz with it constantly.
 
I had Hedman "Aluminized" headers bought in 96. Biggest pieces of crap I ever monkeyed with. I had to jack the motor up on each side at a time. And to top it off, the flange was bent and it never sealed right even after beating it into place. They drug on the ground (had new shocks, was stock front end v8 torsion bars) and just overall a piss-poor header.

Of course we'd all love to pay the lower price for better headers, but thats not happening. Would you go to a gas-station that is known to have cheap gas simply because its cheaper, perhaps with the rationalization that you'll rebuild whatever damage is caused by this cheap gas every few years? Spend the extra money on pipes that don't scrape or drag and they will outlast the cheap stuff.

Keep in mind the time it takes to rip them out every couple years. My time is worth alot and would rather do it once than futz with it constantly.
 
66cuda said:
DIfference is 5/16 flange vs 3/8 flange, Material & thickness of tubes / collectors...73 is the widest A body made so headers are not as BIG of an issue as on the 67 - 69 or even worse on the 64 -66...... check out the specs and buy reputable or you will be replacing them in a year or two...also fit them THEN get them ceramic coated.... I do not use the three bolt collector flange they are a PITA....try the stainless band but that means cutting off the flange retainer on the end of the collectors...I like them becuse they do not come loose ( if dun rite) and seal better ALSO much easier to remove & reinstall if necessary. in short YES there is a difference a noticable and notable one
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Is there really a diffrence on width between 67 and 73?
I just assembled 318 with (flowtech?) headers +904+8 1/4, in my 67 Dart. Took them from 74 Dart. I didnt notice any differences on widht.

Anyway, it was pain to assemble them in both of them. Allso had flowtechs in my 69 Valiant with 318. They didnt fit well, and soon they were warn trough by track rod.

I still vote for cheap headers. Quality headers are expensive. Come on, its just a heap of pipes! I would save that money and by a Tig- or Mag-welder. ;-)
 
I have a set of summit long tubes on my 318 duster ...... I am not 100% impressed BUT for the money....I can't complain.

They were a PAIN to install. I had to raise the engine on each side for each header....plus they are the one peice headers so I had to drop all my steering components.

but as for ground clearance, they don't hang much lower than the trans pan or subframe rails or anything so I don't think I will have much clearance issues.

I was not to impressed with the design of the mounting flange that bolts to the head...I tihnk they could have put a little more thought into that area.

everything seems to fit good ( VERY TIGHT TOLERANCES THOUGH) I am within about 1/4" on all the closest points. I was touching on my passenger side torsion bar so I had to pull that header off and clearance is a bit.

all in all....I would say for the money,the summit headers are a great buy......BUT if you want an easy set of headers to install and a slightly better fitment quality and a little less headache and a tin tag on your headers with the company's brand name pressed into it... Then by all means,spend the $700.00 rather than the $130.00 lol

it all boils down to how much money you have for you build,what your looking to gain out of the build,if you have patience and if it is going to be a top notch show car.

but if you are doing a local car show car,or a daily driver that you jsut want some get up and go in or you just plain don't have a bunch of cash to drop on headers than I see no problem buying the cheaper ones....to each his own.

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Do the summit's work with power steering??

After considering all the options i'll probably go the cheaper route. Afterall mine is somewhat of a "budget" build and unlike many of the other people here. I probably put less then 3000 miles on the car each year. Plus i'm use to driving vehicles that scrape, so i think i can get away with having a pipe that hangs a little low.
 
I cant say for sure how well it will work with power steering if at all...mine is manual steering.
 
I still vote for cheap headers. Quality headers are expensive.
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So is every other good/quality part i put into my car..then again theres nothing cheap about it...:-D:-D
 
FinD said:
Is there really a diffrence on width between 67 and 73?
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Sorry, the comment that 73's are the widest A bodies made is flat wrong!

The front clips on this year range 67-76 is the same. Isn't any wider/narrower

The 66 and earlier are the narrow A's, not 67.
 
DusterDude72 said:
I have a set of summit long tubes on my 318 duster ...... I am not 100% impressed BUT for the money....I can't complain.

They were a PAIN to install. I had to raise the engine on each side for each header....plus they are the one peice headers so I had to drop all my steering components.

but as for ground clearance, they don't hang much lower than the trans pan or subframe rails or anything so I don't think I will have much clearance issues.

I was not to impressed with the design of the mounting flange that bolts to the head...I tihnk they could have put a little more thought into that area.

everything seems to fit good ( VERY TIGHT TOLERANCES THOUGH) I am within about 1/4" on all the closest points. I was touching on my passenger side torsion bar so I had to pull that header off and clearance is a bit.

all in all....I would say for the money,the summit headers are a great buy......BUT if you want an easy set of headers to install and a slightly better fitment quality and a little less headache and a tin tag on your headers with the company's brand name pressed into it... Then by all means,spend the $700.00 rather than the $130.00 lol

it all boils down to how much money you have for you build,what your looking to gain out of the build,if you have patience and if it is going to be a top notch show car.

but if you are doing a local car show car,or a daily driver that you jsut want some get up and go in or you just plain don't have a bunch of cash to drop on headers than I see no problem buying the cheaper ones....to each his own.

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why no pics of the drivers side?
 
When I took these pictures was right after I put the passenger side in and had not yet did the drivers side......I have since put the drivers side in but have not got around to taking pictures.

The passenger side was a little trickier getting in than the drivers side was other than the drivers side I had to drop the steering and I had a little trouble squeezing it in between the block and the steering column coming from the bottom of the car up with the header.

but with the engine raised about 3" on either side of the block where I was installing the header...I was able to get the headers in fairliy easy.

I dropped all the steering in about 10 minutes (fairly fresh rebuild under carraige so luckily it all popped apart pretty decently),about 5 minutes to take motor mount bolt off and hoise the engine on said side......about 15 minutes worth of fenageling with the header to get it in place ....plus about 15 minutes worth of dinking around to get the gaskets and bolts all lined up and sealed on the water port threads and what not.....X2 on all of that to include both sides and my total invested time into the header install was about....1 hour and 20 ish minutes. thats with taking alot of percaution not to scratch my new paint in the engine bay....I may have been able to do it a bit quicker if I just rammed the headers in there LOL
 
What headers have people found to work with power steering? I was pretty sure TTI said they would work, but my problem is the wonderful previous owners swapped a 318 for the /6 and made their own mounts to put it in. They're spool mounts at least, but they're attached to a piece of angle iron on one side and square tube on the other welded to the K frame. Don't know if the engine sits in the stock location of not (doubtful). From reading the TTI footnotes on install it seems like they only guarantee fitment with the engine in EXACTLY the right spot. Is this really true or is there really a fair deal of fudge room? I hate to drop that much money on something that may not fit...
 
Map63Vette said:
What headers have people found to work with power steering? I was pretty sure TTI said they would work, but my problem is the wonderful previous owners swapped a 318 for the /6 and made their own mounts to put it in. They're spool mounts at least, but they're attached to a piece of angle iron on one side and square tube on the other welded to the K frame. Don't know if the engine sits in the stock location of not (doubtful). From reading the TTI footnotes on install it seems like they only guarantee fitment with the engine in EXACTLY the right spot. Is this really true or is there really a fair deal of fudge room? I hate to drop that much money on something that may not fit...
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check there instalation instructions:read2: they will tell you where the engine is suposed to be:) there is not alot of room left even with the engine in the right spot
 
My previous duster had power steering and the TTI's slid right in nicely...can't say that about any other headers i've ever used,once again showing they're well worth the money spent :-D:-D
 
Hmm, looks like I might be in the market for a stock V8 K frame then. I'd love to go AlterK, but there's no way I have the money for it. I'm not even convinced the power steering is right anymore. It bolts in fine, but I'm not sure if the brackets are original. It seems like it would just be a nasty fit the way mine sits.

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Well I bought these for my 73 Dart,

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-78050/

And I bought them knowing I don't want to spend 500 plus on a set of headers. On top of that I needed to repaint my motor and engine bay and put in my shiftkit and converter so me and My buddy pulled the motor and trans in only 3 hours, so its not too big of a deal to me to set the headers in place and the drop the motor back in, which seems like it will be the easiest way.

Now ive used alot of cheaper headers on my dakota and other hot rod products and have always had good luck, so this time I am hoping the same.

I will be stripping the protective paint and then VHT'ing the headers which I definitley will reccomend to a non coated header, and I've always had good luck with VHT stuff.

My car has power steering so once I get them in and snug I will take pictures to let you know how it fits.

I think basically you need to always buy according to budget. If you can't afford the expensive stuff, you can damn near always make the less expensive stuff work. If I had an extra 700 i might consider buying TTi's but i don't so I will do my best with headmans and let you know how they fit!
 
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