‘72 Dart - Road Race Resto

[Chandler]

Had my Dart for a few years and now that I’m finally getting around to putting some major work into it, figured it’s time to start logging and sharing its journey.

Started out as as a roller sitting in someone’s front yard in Denver.

 

[Chandler]

First substantial upgrades since owning it. All prior work has been very small improvements or just to get and keep her roadworthy.

Got some extra free time due to Covid so pulled the 318 to see what was inside and diagnose why she was burning so much oil—Discovered a cracked piston ring and severe gouging on the thrust bearing riding surface of the crank.

So, with a wrecked crank and the block bare, I figured there was no better time to put a little more pep in her step

 

[A56]

First substantial upgrades since owning it. All prior work has been very small improvements or just to get and keep her roadworthy.

Got some extra free time due to Covid so pulled the 318 to see what was inside and diagnose why she was burning so much oil—Discovered a cracked piston ring and severe gouging on the thrust bearing riding surface of the crank.

So, with a wrecked crank and the block bare, I figured there was no better time to put a little more pep in her step

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Road worthy for sure now

 

[Murray]

Are you going to road race with stock suspention ?

 

[72bluNblu]

Are you going to road race with stock suspention ?

The fastest mopars to date on road and autoX courses have had torsion bars and leaf springs. The Hotchkis Taxi, a 4 door Satellite, put down faster lap times at TireRack's test course than their usual BMW 3 series test cars with the same driver.

No reason not to run the torsion bars. Properly set up they'll perform just as well or better than a coilover conversion that will cost twice as much.

 

[Chandler]

Are you going to road race with stock suspention ?

I’m actually in the midst of replacing the leaf springs with a triangulated four-link.

Dropped the 8-3/4” and began prepping it yesterday. Hope to begin verifying suspension mount points later this week

 

[Super-Cuda]

I’m actually in the midst of replacing the leaf springs with a triangulated four-link.

Dropped the 8-3/4” and began prepping it yesterday. Hope to begin verifying suspension mount points later this week

Love to see some pics of your 4-link setup. Are you building your own or is it a kit?

I'm using the Streetlynx system from RMS and love it.

Very interested in how yours looks installed.

Cheers!!

 

[Super-Cuda]

The fastest mopars to date on road and autoX courses have had torsion bars and leaf springs. The Hotchkis Taxi, a 4 door Satellite, put down faster lap times at TireRack's test course than their usual BMW 3 series test cars with the same driver.

No reason not to run the torsion bars. Properly set up they'll perform just as well or better than a coilover conversion that will cost twice as much.

Do you know of a site I can go to to see the actual build of the Hotchkis Taxi?

 

[72bluNblu]

Do you know of a site I can go to to see the actual build of the Hotchkis Taxi?

1970 Plymouth Satellite - The Cab Ride - Mopar Muscle Magazine

PHR Musclecar of the Year 2013 event features DoctorDiff products

Video of the tire test where the Taxi put down faster times than the beemers...

 

[Super-Cuda]

Thanks very much for posting that 72bluNblu ,

That Satellite is awesome! Very impressive performance from such a heavy car on that course.
Some things I noticed were the use of Firmfeel products so this car probably has a heavily modified K -Frame with gussets welded in at the weak points to prevent flex at the steering box . Also, the frame is tied and reinforced (Hotchkis components ??) tie rods, sway bars, tubular upper control arms, 5-speed , Stroker big block, Upgraded front and rear brakes, rear locking differential etc.. Plus a very good driver!

Hats off to the folks at Hotchkis for their efforts as this is quite the showcase for their products but don't let the economy car look fool you, this is a 100,000 plus race car all day long!! There's 2000.00 worth of race seats (not including safety harness) in it !!

To your point that torsion bars and leaf springs can be made to perform every bit as good as coilover systems, that is valid, but, just as the coilover based systems, they need a lot of help to perform as the 'TAXI" does in this video. As an old race car builder once said to me ...its not how fast do you want to go... its how fast do you want to spend !!

Thanks again for a very interesting and informative post.

Cheers!!

 

[TT5.9mag]

Na that taxi isn’t a $200,000 car. The trans, brakes,and shocks being the largest overspend on that car. The Hotchkis TVS system is not cheap but certainly well within most “hobbiyists” budget. I know I bought one. You could duplicate that car relatively cheaply and have a car that handles well, or even great. That car is a careful selection of some nice parts that work well together and overall produce good numbers. But it is not an open checkbook type build.

 

[Super-Cuda]

Na that taxi isn’t a $200,000 car. The trans, brakes,and shocks being the largest overspend on that car. The Hotchkis TVS system is not cheap but certainly well within most “hobbiyists” budget. I know I bought one. You could duplicate that car relatively cheaply and have a car that handles well, or even great. That car is a careful selection of some nice parts that work well together and overall produce good numbers. But it is not an open checkbook type build.

Ah I think you should look closer.. keisler 5-speed, Stroker motor these alone would cost 10-15 grand, heavily modified chassis, firmfeel steering box.Not to mention that this car was built by hotchkis. I can only imagine how many hours of research , development and testing went into it.
This car is not a "back yard" build.

 

[72bluNblu]

Ah I think you should look closer.. keisler 5-speed, Stroker motor these alone would cost 10-15 grand, heavily modified chassis, firmfeel steering box.Not to mention that this car was built by hotchkis. I can only imagine how many hours of research , development and testing went into it.
This car is not a "back yard" build.

The build itself is not a "back yard build", just the fact that Hotchkis built it means it wasn't. But I also think you're putting it on too much of a pedestal, you can absolutely obtain the Taxi's level of performance with a backyard build.

The K frame isn't what I would call "heavily modified". Firm Feel sells gusset kits for your K frame, or you can make your own. Really, all it amounts to is seam welding the K frame and adding half a dozen gussets. A couple to the steering box mount, a couple reinforcements to the LCA pin tubes and a skid plate. I do this to all of my K-frames myself. Originally I bought a gusset kit from Firm Feel (they're $85), but all the ones I've done since I make myself. It's not difficult.

The chassis is also not what I would call "heavily modified". The Hotchkis frame connectors are actually pretty simple to install, I installed a set on my Challenger. They were easier to install than the home made subframe connectors I made myself for my Duster, and A LOT easier to install than the US Cartool subframe connectors I installed on my '71 Dart Gt. Just subframe connectors and torque boxes make a big difference, and a hobbyist with a welder can install both pretty easily ( I have several times now). I have more than what the Taxi has on my Duster, and it's still not "heavily modified"- no cage, no crazy engineering.

The 5 speed is nice, but not necessary. And it's also a kit anyone can buy. I have a 6 speed T-56 magnum in my Duster, I did all the work myself and that's a much more involved installation. That was $6,620, the list is here My "new" '74 Duster- or why I need a project like a hole in the head

The suspension is off the shelf Hotchkis TVS. There are quite a few members here that run that full system and have for years. While I wouldn't call it "cheap", it's very attainable. And more than that, you don't need everything in the TVS system. The Firm Feel steering box is only $425 if you have a core power steering box.

This is everything I have on my Duster for suspension. It's not the cheapest way to do it, although it's not the most expensive either (ie, complete Hotchkis TVS). And before you say "The TVS is only $2,333!" it doesn't include torsion bars, shocks, a steering box, lower ball joints, LCA's, a spring offset, Delrin LCA bushings, a pitman and idler, etc, otherwise known as over $2,200 worth of stuff.

Front:

• 1.12" torsion bars from Firm Feel: $355
• Bergman Autocraft SPC UCA's:$395
• Bergman Autocraft Delrin LCA bushings: $80
• Firm Feel greaseable LCA pins: $135
• Howe Racing upper ball joints: $130
• Proforged lower ball joints:$80
• QA1 LCA's: $395
• Hotchkis Shocks: $475
• Hellwig 55905 front bar: $175
• Flaming River 16:1 steering box: $610
• QA1 tie rod sleeves: $50
• Proforged tie rods (all): $65
• Moog pitman and idler arms: $80
• Adjustable PST strut rods:$300

Rear:

• Hellwig 6908 rear bar: $180 (this is the Ebody bar I run with my B-body rear axle)
• AFCO 20231M springs: $320
• AFCO leaf spring sliders: $200
• Dr. Diff 1/2" spring offset:$150
• Leaf spring perches: $15

Front suspension: 3,325
Rear suspension total: 865

Total: $4,190

And a lot of that stuff isn't absolutely necessary. You can box the stock LCA's and that will work great and cost a lot less than the QA1 LCA's. PST sells a 16:1 manual steering box now for $300. You can buy non-adjustable QA1 UCA's for $350 and they come with ball joints, so that saves $195. You can use shackles instead of leaf spring sliders, the Taxi does. You get the idea.

You can go crazy on brakes, but I have 13" front and 11.7" rear disks from DoctorDiff that set me back about $1,800.

For chassis stiffening I have subframe connectors, torque boxes, "J" bars (firewall/cowl to front frame rails) and a tubular radiator support in addition to the reinforced K frame.

So, what I'm saying is that depending on your capabilities, you can build a car that will perform just as well as the Taxi and have less than $20k in parts into it if you did it right. I'm probably a bit over $20k into my car at this point, but honestly I've put some stuff in there that the Taxi doesn't have. My full build thread starts here- My "new" '74 Duster- or why I need a project like a hole in the head

 

[kursplat]

...so this car probably has a heavily modified K -Frame with gussets welded in at the weak points to prevent flex at the steering box . Also, the frame is tied and reinforced...tie rods, sway bars, tubular upper control arms...Upgraded front and rear brakes...

a lot of people consider most of these basics for any of these cars, even for a daily driver. the locker? never welded up the spider gears? the seats? a $160 summit seat will work just as well for most things. the upper control arms you can find used on here for a couple hundred $$. the trans and motor can be done cheaper too. it not that hard to build a car that would be competitive with the Hotchkis one. looking forward to seeing your build. what's the motor?

 

[TT5.9mag]

Ah I think you should look closer.. keisler 5-speed, Stroker motor these alone would cost 10-15 grand, heavily modified chassis, firmfeel steering box.Not to mention that this car was built by hotchkis. I can only imagine how many hours of research , development and testing went into it.
This car is not a "back yard" build.

Fortunately, I do not need to look closer. I currently compete in two forms of motorsports on a semi professional level in vehicles that cost $200,000 and more. One of which I built. I am not talking out of my *** here. I am lucky enough to get to drive and build these kind of vehicles. I also complete in a much cheaper entry level catagory called spec Miata in a $10,000 car (which is the most fun btw). @72bluNblu is spot on as with most of his posts. I am currently building my 72 dart to a level similar to the Hotchkis taxi to be competitive with vehicles that will cost way more than I have in it. And I am using a lot of the same parts as that car.

 

[TT5.9mag]

I apologize @AAndrews ive been quoting you as saying $200,000 and you said $100,000. But I stand by what I’ve said. The taxi didn’t even cost that to build.

 

[Chandler]

Electrical:
A few of months back I elected to finally clean out the rats nest that was the under-dash wiring and relocate the firewall bulkhead connector to be a little more accessible.

Nothing too interesting or unique, but the process helped me to become painfully familiar with the different circuits in the car.

With the door jamb dome-light switches having been robbed from the car long ago and an awful lot of questionable splicing and dangling loose wires, I sat down with a wiring diagram and DVOM to determine what I could make do without.

In the end, the entire interior lighting circuit (save for the dome light and it’s manual dash switch) were gutted from the harness, the ammeter was bypassed in favor of a voltage gauge, and the iffy splices, if they were providing power to an item such as the radio, were moved directly to the fuse block.

Regarding the bulkhead connector, the original which was too trashed to function properly, so it was replaced with a more weatherproof one, relocated to where the AC hoses once were.

In retrospect, rather than clean up the existing harness, I should have rebuilt it with all new wires. Oh well, another task for another day.

 

[Super-Cuda]

I apologize @AAndrews ive been quoting you as saying $200,000 and you said $100,000. But I stand by what I’ve said. The taxi didn’t even cost that to build.

No problem TT5.9 |Mag , I recognized that immediately. Respectfully, I may be off somewhat on the cost to build the Taxi but I don't think by much. That Satellite is a step above most cars because of who built it, Hotchkis . That car was built to showcase their products and I think no expense spared. Most on this site do not have the skills and experience that you and 72bluNblu obviously have so the labor component is also a factor in the cost. (BTW, that Duster/Demon looks wild! ) Be interesting if someone from Hotchkis reads this who worked on the Taxi could comment as well. I also did the K Member upgrade, boxed lower control arms ,firm feel Cop car box , larger tie rods, sway bars. bilstien shocks. To do this , I removed the complete suspension and powertrain . My cost here in Canada was well over $5000.00. Ended up taking the whole works back out as although much better, it was still 50 year old technology , installed a full Alterkation front end system from RMS complete with swaybar, Viking double adjustable coilovers, and wildwood 11' drilled and slotted rotors. Its much lighter, rack and pinion steering and provides great clearance for headers. Although it cost a bit more, I am absolutely delighted with the transformation and my car handles like its on rails. Torsion bars and stock mopar suspension systems and recirculating ball steering systems can be massaged to perform better but you can't make them lighter.
Thanks for all the comments though, I will definitely read up on TT5.9 mag's build and yours as well . A lot for me to learn here for sure!

 

[Super-Cuda]

Electrical:
A few of months back I elected to finally clean out the rats nest that was the under-dash wiring and relocate the firewall bulkhead connector to be a little more accessible.

Nothing too interesting or unique, but the process helped me to become painfully familiar with the different circuits in the car.

With the door jamb dome-light switches having been robbed from the car long ago and an awful lot of questionable splicing and dangling loose wires, I sat down with a wiring diagram and DVOM to determine what I could make do without.

In the end, the entire interior lighting circuit (save for the dome light and it’s manual dash switch) were gutted from the harness, the ammeter was bypassed in favor of a voltage gauge, and the iffy splices, if they were providing power to an item such as the radio, were moved directly to the fuse block.

Regarding the bulkhead connector, the original which was too trashed to function properly, so it was replaced with a more weatherproof one, relocated to where the AC hoses once were.

In retrospect, rather than clean up the existing harness, I should have rebuilt it with all new wires. Oh well, another task for another day.

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Man that's a lot of work! Did you put the fuse box back in the original location? I contemplated doing this but ended up buying a new wiring harness from Year One. In retrospect, I should have bought a kit from painless and did it myself. BTW , a great time to upgrade headlamp wiring circuit to relays and H-4' headlamps.
Good luck with your build. Ill be following along.

 

[kursplat]

No problem TT5.9 |I removed the complete suspension... although much better, it was still 50 year old technology... installed a full Alterkation front end system from RMS complete with coilovers...

i agree with some weight savings, but coil overs and rack & pinion is 50 year old tech too.

 

[mygasser]

i agree with some weight savings, but coil overs and rack & pinion is 50 year old tech too.

there were cars with rack and pinion steering in the 1930's
neil.

 

[kursplat]

there were cars with rack and pinion steering in the 1930's neil.

i have a 68' too, but i don't think it's brand new

 

[mygasser]

i have a 68' too, but i don't think it's brand new

they're downright modern

 

[72bluNblu]

i agree with some weight savings, but coil overs and rack & pinion is 50 year old tech too.

Right? Like the coil overs conversions aren't all Mustang II based, making them at best an early 70's design. And of course pretty much all types of suspension go back much further, it's just the execution that's improved.

Nothing magic about coil overs, they're just a spring and a shock. And putting them on a chassis that wasn't designed for them has its own issues. Steering rack is nice, but, really all you're doing is saving a little bit of weight and getting rid of the on-center dead spot that all the worm and ball steering boxes have. Which is just a "feel" thing, it doesn't detract from performance.

 

[Super-Cuda]

The build itself is not a "back yard build", just the fact that Hotchkis built it means it wasn't. But I also think you're putting it on too much of a pedestal, you can absolutely obtain the Taxi's level of performance with a backyard build.

The K frame isn't what I would call "heavily modified". Firm Feel sells gusset kits for your K frame, or you can make your own. Really, all it amounts to is seam welding the K frame and adding half a dozen gussets. A couple to the steering box mount, a couple reinforcements to the LCA pin tubes and a skid plate. I do this to all of my K-frames myself. Originally I bought a gusset kit from Firm Feel (they're $85), but all the ones I've done since I make myself. It's not difficult.

The chassis is also not what I would call "heavily modified". The Hotchkis frame connectors are actually pretty simple to install, I installed a set on my Challenger. They were easier to install than the home made subframe connectors I made myself for my Duster, and A LOT easier to install than the US Cartool subframe connectors I installed on my '71 Dart Gt. Just subframe connectors and torque boxes make a big difference, and a hobbyist with a welder can install both pretty easily ( I have several times now). I have more than what the Taxi has on my Duster, and it's still not "heavily modified"- no cage, no crazy engineering.

The 5 speed is nice, but not necessary. And it's also a kit anyone can buy. I have a 6 speed T-56 magnum in my Duster, I did all the work myself and that's a much more involved installation. That was $6,620, the list is here My "new" '74 Duster- or why I need a project like a hole in the head

The suspension is off the shelf Hotchkis TVS. There are quite a few members here that run that full system and have for years. While I wouldn't call it "cheap", it's very attainable. And more than that, you don't need everything in the TVS system. The Firm Feel steering box is only $425 if you have a core power steering box.

This is everything I have on my Duster for suspension. It's not the cheapest way to do it, although it's not the most expensive either (ie, complete Hotchkis TVS). And before you say "The TVS is only $2,333!" it doesn't include torsion bars, shocks, a steering box, lower ball joints, LCA's, a spring offset, Delrin LCA bushings, a pitman and idler, etc, otherwise known as over $2,200 worth of stuff.

Front:

• 1.12" torsion bars from Firm Feel: $355
• Bergman Autocraft SPC UCA's:$395
• Bergman Autocraft Delrin LCA bushings: $80
• Firm Feel greaseable LCA pins: $135
• Howe Racing upper ball joints: $130
• Proforged lower ball joints:$80
• QA1 LCA's: $395
• Hotchkis Shocks: $475
• Hellwig 55905 front bar: $175
• Flaming River 16:1 steering box: $610
• QA1 tie rod sleeves: $50
• Proforged tie rods (all): $65
• Moog pitman and idler arms: $80
• Adjustable PST strut rods:$300

Rear:

• Hellwig 6908 rear bar: $180 (this is the Ebody bar I run with my B-body rear axle)
• AFCO 20231M springs: $320
• AFCO leaf spring sliders: $200
• Dr. Diff 1/2" spring offset:$150
• Leaf spring perches: $15

Front suspension: 3,325
Rear suspension total: 865

Total: $4,190

And a lot of that stuff isn't absolutely necessary. You can box the stock LCA's and that will work great and cost a lot less than the QA1 LCA's. PST sells a 16:1 manual steering box now for $300. You can buy non-adjustable QA1 UCA's for $350 and they come with ball joints, so that saves $195. You can use shackles instead of leaf spring sliders, the Taxi does. You get the idea.

You can go crazy on brakes, but I have 13" front and 11.7" rear disks from DoctorDiff that set me back about $1,800.

For chassis stiffening I have subframe connectors, torque boxes, "J" bars (firewall/cowl to front frame rails) and a tubular radiator support in addition to the reinforced K frame.

So, what I'm saying is that depending on your capabilities, you can build a car that will perform just as well as the Taxi and have less than $20k in parts into it if you did it right. I'm probably a bit over $20k into my car at this point, but honestly I've put some stuff in there that the Taxi doesn't have. My full build thread starts here- My "new" '74 Duster- or why I need a project like a hole in the head

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Hey 72BluNBlu,
Just read through your full post on your build. Very impressive and a lot of useful tips that frankly I didn/t know about. As I said before, Im always trying to learn something new about A-Bodies so I have a few questions you may be able to answer.

I used the 383 spec torsion bars originally and played with the adjusters for different ride height and handling characteristics. I could get the car lower but handling definitely went away. I upgraded the LCAs to units with the swaybar tabs , boxed them and used a 340 Formula S swaybar. I had issues with tire rub on the leading edge of the front fender with 14" and 15" wheels but, funny enough only the drivers side. Also , found the front end very bouncy even with the bilstiens. Torsion bars too heavy?? Love to hear your thoughts on this.

Cheers!!