1” FFI Torsion Bars - setting ride height

[Haney]

So I am finishing up a complete suspension upgrade on my 1972 Swinger. I have installed FFI tubular UCAs, rebuilt and boxed LCAs, PST Adj Strut Rods, 9/16” TREs, 73+ brake kit from Dr. Diff and FFI 1” T-bars. I installed the bars with the LCAs all the way down, actually had to lift them some to get in the LCA hex. So I get every thing back together with every thing still loose and adjusters all the way out, set on ground and it is too high in the front. So my question is, with 1” bars, do you install them closer to ride height instead of all the way down like stock T-bars? This is frustrating. Dang I hate to take it all loose again. BTW, it is a SB so not much weight up front.

 

[72bluNblu]

So the car is fully loaded with the engine/trans installed and it’s too high?

Have you rolled the car at all or just let it off the jack?

If you haven’t rolled the car at all, it hasn’t settled all the way down. You can jump up and down on the bumper all you want but if the wheels don’t roll it won’t sit all the way down.

Now, if it’s WAY too high, it probably won’t sit down that far. I don’t know what the hex offset is on FFI’s 1” bars. That size is kind of an issue, they’re large enough that the factory offset is probably too much. But they’re not large enough to be 0 offset, PST had the opposite issue with their first batch of 1.03” bars because they made them 0 offset, and people found they couldn’t get the cars to stock height (worked fine doe lowered cars).

But if FFI ran with the factory 20 degree offset you may need to clock the LCA’s the next flat up. I would call Firm Feel, they’re very knowledgeable and may be able to sort out what happened.

 

[Haney]

You are correct, I just lowered off the stands once I got the suspension on. It is at full weight. Still have not installed calipers and MC so I have not moved. How much will it drop once it moves? I am thinking I need 2 more inches to even be close to where I want it to sit. Thank you for the reply.

 

[72bluNblu]

Well normally I’d say it wouldn’t drop anywhere near 2”, but since this is a brand new install of everything it will probably drop more than normal. But 2” is a lot, I doubt you’ll get anywhere near that much. The additional drop is mostly because of the change in camber as the suspension moves through its arc. The wheels hit the ground with the suspension at full compression, but then the friction of the tires on the ground resist the change in camber as the suspension compresses, which holds the suspension up some.

I suppose the next question is, how high is it sitting? What’s the distance from the floor to the middle of the wheel opening? Not sure how low you want the car to be, normally once the UCA’s are parallel to the ground you’re about as low as you want to go.

Are the adjusters loaded at the current height? I know you said they’re adjusted all the way out, but do they have tension on them? The other possibility is that something is bound up in the suspension. What type of bushings did you install? And are the bolts all fully tightened?

 

[Demonracer]

Let's see some pictures, that way we can see how high it's sitting now.

 

[Haney]

Let's see some pictures, that way we can see how high it's sitting now.

It was late last night when I set it down on tires so no pics right now. I will take some soon. Here is a couple I took at free hang and then with what loading I could get on one side with a jack. Both with adjusters barely engaged

 

[Haney]

Are the adjusters loaded at the current height? I know you said they’re adjusted all the way out, but do they have tension on them? The other possibility is that something is bound up in the suspension. What type of bushings did you install? And are the bolts all fully tightened?

very little if any preload and everything is loose. I put in standard rubber bushings in LCAs

 

[Demonracer]

I think you need to get the front suspension completed & get the car sitting on all four tires. This will give you a better idea of how the car will sit on it's own. Trying to replicate it's stance with a jack under the LCA will not give you what you want to see. As soon as the jack gets to a certain point, it begins to raise the car & not the suspension. Just my .02

 

[Haney]

I think you need to get the front suspension completed & get the car sitting on all four tires. This will give you a better idea of how the car will sit on it's own. Trying to replicate it's stance with a jack under the LCA will not give you what you want to see. As soon as the jack gets to a certain point, it begins to raise the car & not the suspension. Just my .02

i agree. I have done that, just no pics yet. I just posted what I had. More to come.... Thanks for your help

 

[72bluNblu]

View attachment 1715540313
It was late last night when I set it down on tires so no pics right now. I will take some soon. Here is a couple I took at free hang and then with what loading I could get on one side with a jack. Both with adjusters barely engaged View attachment 1715540312

Hmmm. Is there an upper bump stop in there? Can't really tell. If the adjusters are engaged with the suspension hanging down as far as it is in that first picture you may have an issue.

When you set the length of the adjustable strut rods did the suspension move freely through its range of travel?

You're getting very little suspension compression with that jack. While I would also like to see the car on the ground, if that picture is a good indication of how things are sitting now you may need to reclock the LCA's. Those are 1.00" bars?

I think you need to get the front suspension completed & get the car sitting on all four tires. This will give you a better idea of how the car will sit on it's own. Trying to replicate it's stance with a jack under the LCA will not give you what you want to see. As soon as the jack gets to a certain point, it begins to raise the car & not the suspension. Just my .02

Actually, the "certain point" where the car starts to be raised and not the suspension is the point where the load on the suspension is equal to the corner weight of the car. Meaning, the only reason that will be different from ride height is if the car is sitting higher in the front than the back (more weight than normal on the rear wheels). If the car is close to level, then the point where the whole car lifts is gonna be pretty darn close to ride height.

 

[kursplat]

are those bars side specific? are they in with the front of the bar in the front? do the control arms need to be clocked to the next flat on the hex? even though i knew all that stuff from previous bar installs i'd done, i screwed up royal on the last one i did and drove myself nuts for a day have you called FFI?

you'll get it

 

[Haney]

Hmmm. Is there an upper bump stop in there? Can't really tell. If the adjusters are engaged with the suspension hanging down as far as it is in that first picture you may have an issue.

When you set the length of the adjustable strut rods did the suspension move freely through its range of travel?

You're getting very little suspension compression with that jack. While I would also like to see the car on the ground, if that picture is a good indication of how things are sitting now you may need to reclock the LCA's. Those are 1.00" bars?



Actually, the "certain point" where the car starts to be raised and not the suspension is the point where the load on the suspension is equal to the corner weight of the car. Meaning, the only reason that will be different from ride height is if the car is sitting higher in the front than the back (more weight than normal on the rear wheels). If the car is close to level, then the point where the whole car lifts is gonna be pretty darn close to ride height.

There is no uca bump stop in place for Pictures. The when the suspension is in the up position picture (jack under car) it is just starting to touch the head of the adjusting screw that is just barely through the adjustment block. There is no load on the jack in that pic. It is just holding up the suspension. Also the strut rods are loose and the suspension travel is smooth. When the suspension is hanging down, is where I installed the T-Bar. The problem is that I get very little load (bar twist) when I put the load on the tires. I can’t tonight but on Friday I will post pics with it on the ground.

 

[Haney]

are those bars side specific? are they in with the front of the bar in the front? do the control arms need to be clocked to the next flat on the hex? even though i knew all that stuff from previous bar installs i'd done, i screwed up royal on the last one i did and drove myself nuts for a day have you called FFI?

you'll get it

haha! Yeah, it will all work out. Lol

The bars are on the correct side (L vs R) but I don’t think there is a front and back.

I installed the bars with the suspension down against k frame (no more travel). It may be that with the higher spring rate and weight of the car being light, I may have to clock it one flat towards ride height to have any adjustment.

 

[Haney]

Not 100% on topic but very related.... how do you guys “rough align” after a complete suspension rebuild? How do you at least get in the same zip code with everything?

 

[kursplat]

string for toe and eyeball for camber

 

[Haney]

So I am in good spirits today! Gout it all together and put it on the ground and it sank like a rock!!! Here it is with 5 turns in on the T-bar adjusters per side. Pretty happy with the stance. It is 25” from floor to the wheel lip on the front across the wheel centerline. 6” from center of K member to ground. What do you think?

 

[72bluNblu]

So I am in good spirits today! Gout it all together and put it on the ground and it sank like a rock!!! Here it is with 5 turns in on the T-bar adjusters per side. Pretty happy with the stance. It is 25” from floor to the wheel lip on the front across the wheel centerline. 6” from center of K member to ground. What do you think?

View attachment 1715541694

View attachment 1715541695

View attachment 1715541696

Looks good to me!

With 1” bars and that ride height you will probably need shorter lower bump stops than stock though. You’ll need at least 1” between the bump stop and the frame otherwise you’ll hit the bumpstops constantly which will give you a rougher ride. With 1” bars a little more clearance than that would be better.

 

[Haney]

Looks good to me!

With 1” bars and that ride height you will probably need shorter lower bump stops than stock though. You’ll need at least 1” between the bump stop and the frame otherwise you’ll hit the bumpstops constantly which will give you a rougher ride. With 1” bars a little more clearance than that would be better.

Thanks for the input!

 

[kursplat]

PST's