1 3/4" Headers Verses 1 7/8" on a Healthy 408....Is There a Big Difference??

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  1. flyfish

    flyfish C8H18+N2O = :-D

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    I was wondering about this (the exhaust port). I remember way back when Ryan Johnson ported my Edelbrocks he said that the exhaust numbers were not that great due to the port shape....he also said he didn't spend a lot of time on the exhaust port because there was more to be gained on the intake side.
     
  2. flyfish

    flyfish C8H18+N2O = :-D

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    Most of the time I just leave my exhaust on the car (3" Dynomax race bullets). I have yet to try extensions on the collectors...I should add that to my "to do list" this year.
     
  3. 33IMP

    33IMP Well-Known Member

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    Take the money burning a hole in your pocket, go to the nearest casino, walk up to the roulette table, and plunk it down on red, or black. If you win, buy the big headers, they're free.
    If you lose, you still have a good set of headers on a low ten second car. STILL a big win in my book!
     
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    • flyfish

      flyfish C8H18+N2O = :-D

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      I'm a bracket racer too....but I keep getting that itch to go just a liiiiiiiitle bit faster, LOL. I probably should just leave it alone and keep the money for incase I kill my old 8 3/4....I named that rear end "borrowed time" :D
       
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      • B3422w5

        B3422w5 Well-Known Member

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        Trick flow heads arent gonna get all the power possible out of a stroker either. They are dinky 190cc heads.
        I have already had 9 sec street driven N/A smallblocks.
        This new build is all about having a respectable 10 sec, reliable, repeatable, car. Spending another grand on headers to maybe make it go a tenth faster isn't important to me.
        Frankly, i am worried about the 8.75 holding up with what i have, as is, already.
        When you think this stuff through, and have had a bunch of these type motors( i have) there are more considerations to take into account than those who haven't done them are sometimes aware of.
        For instance, bet my car would also be faster if it didn't have a flat hood, but it does, and i like it. Would also be faster if it wasnt 3300+ with me in it. But i don't want any fiberglass on it, or gutted interior, etc, etc.
        Everybody has different priorities.
         
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        • B3422w5

          B3422w5 Well-Known Member

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          i HAD that same itch. Ended up going 9.60’s on super stock springs at 3350 on 10 inch bias DOT tires( QTP’s), for years, with a small block.
          I am 65, so, been there, done that.
          My priority now is to never have to open the hood, reliability, and not spend every dime i have on racing. Believe me, took me a long time to get over, but i fortunately have.
          Wife likes going out on the boat, we vacation 5/6 weeks a year in winter out of the country. I am happy just getting what i have to run like its supposed to for what it is.
           
        • yellow rose

          yellow rose Overnight Sensation

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          Very true. I learned at age 17 I hated cheap headers. So I just never compromise on that.

          I think if you change headers and do nothing else and you gain 15 HP that’s a HUGE gain on a tuned engine. I lose sleep at night over less than that.

          I was born a generation too late. Maybe two.
           
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          • yellow rose

            yellow rose Overnight Sensation

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            I should have read this post before I posted in your other post.

            Exactly correct. You have to get your priorities down. What you can and can’t live with and then stick to those. It starts eating cash right quick. You now have parts that do like or even hate each other and so performance is shot and your wallet is empty.


            It’s about compromises.
             
          • B3422w5

            B3422w5 Well-Known Member

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            I agree. But, with many people, chasing that 15 horse maybe having to cut holes in my car i don't want to do isn't worth it to install them.
            If i had a stock or super stocker.. heck yes
             
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            • MOPARMAGA

              MOPARMAGA FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              Maybe try tuning your collector length first before buying a new set of headers
               
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              • perfacar

                perfacar Well-Known Member

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                years ago, i had 235/273 dart drag car, I had 1 5/8 headers on it, i swapped to 1 3/4 headers at the track, car went 4 tenths faster,. no other changes. just food for thought. not to beat a dead horse, lol
                 
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                • B3422w5

                  B3422w5 Well-Known Member

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                  So probably 50-75 horse?
                  OK
                   
                • stroker402

                  stroker402 1968 dart GTS convertible

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                  perfacar ... how radical was that 273 engine in your race car ? assume the 1 3/4 headers were fenderwells correct?
                   
                • perfacar

                  perfacar Well-Known Member

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                  it was a 235/ 273, had a cam dynamics stocker cam, stock comp ratio, stock rods, heads and intake manifold, carb. 5.57 gear 28 "x 8" tires. stock 4 speed trans . 3150# race weight. class was J/S. yes both sets were fenderwell style. it was an eye opener, since mopar said they were too big. I think outside the box a lot.
                   
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                  • moparstud440

                    moparstud440 Well-Known Member

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                    I'm thinking your combo is on the larger end of the spectrum. Must been something that it REALLY likes about the bigger headers, but I think for the vast majority people aren't going to see that big of a gain from a header swap.

                    On my one car (mild 440) I went from 2" hooker fenderwell to 2" TTI headers with very minimal difference. Now in that process I did remove the inner fenderwells and ran a bar from the cage to the front of the frame to tie the shock brace to, so it wasn't apples to apples. Last year I had 1 3/4" TTI on the car (2" were just to big of a pain to work in) but this winter I put my 2" hookers back on. Curious to see if I pick up any or not as that is the only change I have made.
                     
                  • flyfish

                    flyfish C8H18+N2O = :-D

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                    Well, I think I decided to put the money away for a "rainy day" fund for my 8 3/4....someday that thing will give up and I will have to replace it with a dana or 9", but hopefully not soon.
                     
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                    • pittsburghracer

                      pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      smart man. Many of these posts touch on the same thought as I use. Get your combo right and get it tuned properly and going from a 1 3/4 header to a 1 7/8 would be a marginal gain. Especially like I said earlier with a fudged up exhaust sharped port on a stock or Edelbrock style of head. When I track tune a start out at improving and maximizing my 60 foot times, then 330, and then worry about my 1/8 mile time. The further down the track you go the easier it becomes. And the earlier you make the improvements the better the ET slip looks. It’s not rocket science but it is science.
                       
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                      • rumblefish360

                        rumblefish360 I have escaped the evil Empire State! FABO Gold Member

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                        It’s called one step at a time.
                        (1 change at a time.)
                        It works for new guy or the seasoned vet.
                        :thumbsup:
                         
                      • stroker402

                        stroker402 1968 dart GTS convertible

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                        If I new what the hedman 1 3/4" fender well headers looked like, I'd probally buy a set. I tried to get a pic of what they looked like from hedman with no luck. they just told me it's just a down size version of the 1 7/8" headers. Early A body that is . I had the 1 7/8" hedman fenderwells on my 65 dart and loved them.
                        If anyone has had a set of 1 3/4" hedman fenderwell headers on their early abodies , post a pic here .

                        my mopar Pictures 019.jpg
                         
                        Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
                      • flyfish

                        flyfish C8H18+N2O = :-D

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                        The Headman Huslers only have tubes 7 & 8 exit through the fender. The 1 3/4 and 1 7/8 use the same patteren, just one is larger. First pic is from Summit, second is one I found on my phone of my (very dirty, apologies) car...Not a good picture, but you get the idea.

                        hed-75140_bl_xl.jpg upload_2021-3-8_11-40-36.png
                         
                      • pittsburghracer

                        pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        I have two sets of the 1 7/8 and I love the ones with the W2 bolt pattern. At least they aren’t sguished it to make room for the bolts.
                         
                      • perfacar

                        perfacar Well-Known Member

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                        the car was driven on the street at times, was not radical in any way. 273 had a small cam, 244 dur .425 lift.advertised dur.
                         
                      • Hysteric

                        Hysteric Well-Known Member

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                        My machinist tells me he built a Edelbrock headed 408 that made 579HP on the dyno with 10-1 comp a 252/260 solid cam with 1 3/4 pipes.

                        Edit: Should know soon what it actually makes when it runs shortly with the track opening again and competition starting again.
                         
                        Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
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                        • stroker402

                          stroker402 1968 dart GTS convertible

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                          yes ...... those headers are 67 and up abody right ? not early abody
                           
                        • stroker402

                          stroker402 1968 dart GTS convertible

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                          how did that fairly stock 273 engine cut off 4 tenths just from switching 1 5/8 header to 1 3/4 ? did you rev it to the moon ? tell us the secret . lol
                           
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