12 Second N/A Slant 6?

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VIOLENT\6

VIOLENT\6

12 second N/A Slant 6?
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
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Location
Massena, NY...Almost Cana
Is it feasible to run high 12s W/a natuaraly aspirated slant 6?

Not talking trailer queen here, but something that could be driven on the street.

10:1 CR 245, 4 barrlel, headers ported heads, drag radials, skinnies, good stal in the convertor, correct gearing, 2600# car.

Not looking to spend big $$$ on the motor, just a well balanced combo working together.

I ran 12 flat N/A in my 4300# '06 Charger that got 26 MPG on the hi-way.

11.3 on a 125 shot.

I wonder if a carefully thought out slant 6 powered '65 Valiant could run low 13/high 12s?
 
You would have to shave a lot of weight and build a pretty high-compression engine. Something in the 12.0:1 or probably higher
 
So let me get this right, you wanna run 12-13's in a n/a slant without spending much money?

I suppose you wanna eat your cake to?
 
So let me get this right, you wanna run 12-13's in a n/a slant without spending much money?

I suppose you wanna eat your cake too?
 
And I forgot to mention street driven. Thats a huge cake! Or a cake with 4.10 gears.
 
I'm not up on slant buildup's, but from a numbers standpoint, it looks like a very well put together combo would need about 250/260hp @ 2800 lbs wet with driver to break under the 13.0 mark. A more streetable combo of converter and gearing would require a little more & a lighter weight would help bring it back inline. Sound very cool though. Good luck if you pursue it. :thumleft:
 
thats 1.15 hp per cubic inch. thats not out of the realm of reality. its just gonna be spendy. there are not alot of bolt on performance parts for slants. I think heavy porting on the head is going to be virtually mandatory.
 
I say bump the compression way up, do some head work, and make it run on E-85 then making 260 horsepower is pretty possible. Any more power than that, you will need to do custom pistons, custom rods, and some crank work.

Search google for naturally aspirated slant sixes and I think mopar muscle magazine did a slant six build that made 320 horsepower but they had a lot of work (aka money) into the build.
 
i wonder if they make any sort of stroker crank? maybe have the rod journals offset ground? churn a few more cubes? it is a very interesting idea.
 
I like that E-85 idea kkeith :thumleft:. More compression, more torque, better 60ft times.
 
So this has got me thinking about building the most wild naturally aspirated slant six. If I had unlimited money and just wanted to do something crazy I would...

Lighten the rotating assembly
Have custom rods made
Have custom pistons made
Port and polish the head and use the biggest valves possible
Use a very healthy cam
Machine the head and block so it was 12.5:1 compression
Build a sheet metal intake that would mount two 325cc 2 barrel carbs sideways (like the ones that come in the six pack setup)
Make the intakes so one carb feeds the front three and the second carb feeds the back three (would use a balance tube between the two intakes)
Build custom headers
Tune it and run it on e-85 and try to get it to rev to 6500-6800rpm

Now I just need about 8000 bucks, a Cnc machine, a tig welder, good machine shop, and a lot of free time. (Plus a hundred different things I am forgetting)
 
I am running 11.27 3.23 gear fully dressed 170/6 daily driver with 14'' radial tires all around.
:eek:ops: you are talking 1/4 mile not 1/8 mile :D... sorry, could not resist :D
 
It can be done 8) Just talk to people that know those motors the best (slantsix.org).

[ame]http://youtu.be/VrAqCYhAI5I[/ame]
 
Mark Etheridge broke into the 10s with his before it crashed. So yes, it can be done. As the old saying goes. Speed costs money. How fast you wanna go?
 
I know you said N/A but why not Nos with cam, 4bbl, headers and head work.
 
It can be done, but not easily or cheaply. The hardest part is keeping it "street driver". I know you said N/A, but N2o would be the best way in my opinion. My 66 Cuda has a totally stock short block 170 , with a mild cam (.434 lift, 264 dur, 232 dur@.050) Milled head (39cc chambers) stock valves and 340 springs. Clifford headers, stock 1 bbl intake, modified to mount a 500 cfm 2bbl Holley carb, and nitrous fogger nozzles, MSD 6A ignition. 3,000 rpm converter, 3.91 SG 8 3/4 rear, and 8x23x13 slicks. Car weighs 3250 with driver, and runs low 13's in the quarter at about 100 mph.

My 66 Valiant is similar but has a 225 but with Offie intake and 390 Holley 4 bbl and 125 hp plate system (actually two 125 plates, but have never used the second stage, yet). This car has run low 13's also, and is capable of 12's but we have had some other issues, that have prevented a 12 sec run. This car was built for about $2,000 including buying the car, and it weighs just under 2700 lbs with driver, but does not have street equipment.
 
Charrlie_S said:
It can be done, but not easily or cheaply. The hardest part is keeping it "street driver". I know you said N/A, but N2o would be the best way in my opinion. My 66 Cuda has a totally stock short block 170 , with a mild cam (.434 lift, 264 dur, 232 dur@.050) Milled head (39cc chambers) stock valves and 340 springs. Clifford headers, stock 1 bbl intake, modified to mount a 500 cfm 2bbl Holley carb, and nitrous fogger nozzles, MSD 6A ignition. 3,000 rpm converter, 3.91 SG 8 3/4 rear, and 8x23x13 slicks. Car weighs 3250 with driver, and runs low 13's in the quarter at about 100 mph.

My 66 Valiant is similar but has a 225 but with Offie intake and 390 Holley 4 bbl and 125 hp plate system (actually two 125 plates, but have never used the second stage, yet). This car has run low 13's also, and is capable of 12's but we have had some other issues, that have prevented a 12 sec run. This car was built for about $2,000 including buying the car, and it weighs just under 2700 lbs with driver, but does not have street equipment.
Click to expand...

I want to run a moderate shot of N20, but I would like to get to the 12 second mark N/A.

My experience W/nitrous is that a good breathinmg N/A engine that is not too high in compression will respond very well to a shot.

That's why I want to stay in the 10-10.5:1 CR range.

As far as running 12s, I'm talking about ideal track conditions, low DA at an east coast track.

12.99 is just a target. I'm not expecting to run 12.99 on an august day in the 90s at a midwestern track. 13.8s would be a realistic target under those conditions.

Money is a realitive term. I have seen lot's of $$$$ wasted. I've been hotrodding everthing from Gen III Crysler Hemis to Panhead hogs, british motorcycle twins & now I'm doing my thing on 4-stroke model aircraft engines making 4hp N/A from a 1.8 cubic inch 4 srtroke engine.

The rotating assembly would be a stock geometry crank, aftermarket rods & aftermarket 2.2L Chryler forged pistons.

Extensive head work is a given. Much of the hand work involved I can do myself.

Torque convertor technology has come a long way in the last few years.

I have a billit stator TC in my '06 charger that flashes to over 3600 RPM that is perfectly streetable as long as I don't get too quick on the loud pedal & keep traction control engaged.

Not interested in E-85, it's non existant where I live.

Having everthing working together can make a HUGE difference.

The cam, TC, induction, exhaust etc have to be working in the same RPM range. Get any of those components out of sync & you go backwards.



It just seems that if I can get a stock 5.7 rotating assembly powered 4300# '06 Charger to run 12 flat N/A while still getting 26MPG, I should be able to get a car that weighs just a little more than 1/2 that to run 13 flat W/a little more than 1/2 the hp.

The 5.7 was making 426 RWHP/460 RWTQ.
 
I say go for it. If you do not make it into the 12s than you still will have a strong 13s car easily. Keep us posted on the build and good luck!
 
Rockerdude said:
It can be done 8) Just talk to people that know those motors the best (slantsix.org).

http://youtu.be/VrAqCYhAI5I
Click to expand...

Not talking trailer queen here, but something that could be driven on the street.
Click to expand...


i guess it all depends on what you consider street driven. if just putting around town with a 4.88 gear is fine by you i guess that wagon could be an example. for me street driven means getting in it and going for 2 plus hour cruises on the highway. not too good with a 4.88 gear.. :)
 
In 2006 we had my Cuda on a portable chassis dyno, at a Mopar race.
358 ft/lbs@2950rpm, and 204 hp at 4500 rpm. The HP curve was just about flat from a low of 180@2900 to the peak of 204 at 4500 and down to 195@5600 where I lifted. The torque and HP lines crossed at about 5,000rpm and 200 ft/lbs and 200 hp.

I say go for it and keep us posted.
I don't have much money in my motor. You've heard the saying "all throttle, no bottle"? Mine is "all bottle, no throttle". It only runs mid 16's on motor. My 66 Valiant will run mid 14's on motor.
 
As far as gearing, I would gear the car to run about 200 RPM past peak HP RPM the traps.

Steetable means that the car will pass inspection & can be driven on the street W/O extremely bad manners.

This woiuld not be a daily driver in the sense that I would need it to comute.

I am retired & my '06 Charger is extremely comfortable for daily driving.

It turns 12s N/A.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Sbz2Etl_A"]PowerWagon 12.06 N/A Track Day @ Atco Rental 04-13-09 - YouTube[/ame]

11s W/a small shot of juice.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhG0KlXEOnU"]Atco track rental 2009 04 13 Powerwagon 11.3 nitrous run - YouTube[/ame]
The Valiant would be fired up occasionally to cruise & maybe be pressed into livery service every now & then.
 
You could be in the 13's and be fully streetable with 3.55 or 3.73 gears if you could get the rear wheel HP in the 200 to 230 range and a weight around 2600 lbs.That's about the same as a ,let's say,a stock 340 Duster.So many variables have to be delt with to get the right combo.
One of your questions was off set crank grinding.I have a 225 bored .020 over with a offset ground crank that yields 234 cubes.Maybe money not well spent for 9 more cubes.But just wanted to try something different.My engine guy wasn't used to doing any slants,Hemi's are his thing thus only a .020 overbore forgetting that a 225 block is easy to find and not worth very much. I wanted to go with a .100 over bore. for more cubes.That was 10 years ago.Now there is so much more info out there using lite weight metric pistons, rods, and rings that will yield more power.It's all about finding that right combination.(one of the reasons your '06 car runs the way it does)There is a guy that is running 12oh's in Pa N/A. He is using a fairly easy engine combo but the car's secret is he got the weight down to about 2000 lbs. With enough though any goal can be reached. Just a thought.
 
Charrlie_S said:
In 2006 we had my Cuda on a portable chassis dyno, at a Mopar race.
358 ft/lbs@2950rpm, and 204 hp at 4500 rpm. The HP curve was just about flat from a low of 180@2900 to the peak of 204 at 4500 and down to 195@5600 where I lifted. The torque and HP lines crossed at about 5,000rpm and 200 ft/lbs and 200 hp.

I say go for it and keep us posted.
I don't have much money in my motor. You've heard the saying "all throttle, no bottle"? Mine is "all bottle, no throttle". It only runs mid 16's on motor. My 66 Valiant will run mid 14's on motor.
Click to expand...

TQ & HP always cross @ 5250 RPM

204 RWHP is about 250 HP @ the crank.

A 3.91 gear on 28" rubber would cross the traps doing 107MPH @ 5000 RPM.

It would take lots of TQ to do that in 12.99.

I'm thinking a little more top end power, perhaps redline @ 5500 RPM?

That would pull a 4.56 to about 5800 @ 106 MPH.
 
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