1962 Valiant Suspension/Brake Swap Options with other A-bodies

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matthon

matthon

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New to the Early A-bodies, but I know some info, just not enough.

I have a '62 Valiant, stock drum brakes, (9" I believe), Mopar 14" sbp Rallye wheels.

The main question is will the front and rear suspension, basically the spindles and drum brakes, 7.25 rear and springs, from a 67-69 a-body with 10" brakes bolt into a 62 Valiant?
Or what is interchangeable?

I believe a stock 62 has 9" brakes, and a 67-69 a-body would have 10" brakes.
Not sure if the spindles are different, or if it doesn't matter as they are interchangeable.

My understanding is the front spring eye is possibly a different size between a 62 and 67-69.

I (roughly) measured the 62 rear between the backing plates, 51".
The springs are roughly 55" (real rough).
The spindles are roughly 8" from the top of the upper to lower ball joint surface, if that makes sense or matters.

I realize there are other things to consider, just having some difficulty locating information.


Differences between 60-61 and 62, my understanding is, a 62 would have a different:
K frame and steering box then a 60-61.
Lower control arms and steering linkage.
Steering column.

And a 62 k frame will bolt into a 60-61.

Any info is greatly appreciated!

20221223_125807.jpg
 
G'day mate,

Look, I'm in Australia, but we got those cars down here and a lot of guys have done a lot of things to the over the years.

I had a 62 for almost 30 years. Here, we call them an S Series Valiant. I now have what you guys call a 61 model.......and R Series. The 1960 and 61 models are certainly different from the 62. They may look VERY similar, but there's lots of little differences esecially with things like the front end other fiddly bits.

IN AUSTRALIA......we can pretty much swap brakes and suspension stuff from later model cars up to about 1970.
I'm not 100% certain with the U.S cars, but I'm quietly confident it's the same - or even easier. You have to be careful because whilst I know pretty much most gear ( here ) to 1966 will be an easy retro fit, the later cars may have stuff a bit more beefed up, like springs etc.

I'm sure guys from over there can help a lot more, but I do know there is a much bigger following for the 60-62 Valiants down here. They are very popular. We only got the 61 for 3 months and then the 62.....but both models are called 1962 Valiants ( R and S Series ). Hope this helps a tiny bit.

Peter
www.1962valiantclub.com
 
My recollection is that 60-61 front suspensions are different, but 62 Valiants/Lancers had front suspensions that are interchangeable with 63 through 72. I believe rears are interchangeable 60-76. Not sure about the front spring eyes on the 60-62. (I do know the rear gears are unique to the 60-61, as they use smaller ring gear bolts; I have a set NOS, but can't use them.)

V8's had ten inch drums from 65 on, but slants had nine inch brakes. Unless either had disc brakes, of course. Nine inch spindles, ten inch spindles and disc brake spindles are all unique to the brakes they go with. Upper and lower control arms are the same for all. And the 73-up single piston disc brakes use still a different spindle (and different upper control arms).

Over the years, I've owned a 63 Valiant convertible, a 65, 66 and 67 Barracuda, and a 73 Duster 340. Plus my Mom had a 64 Barracuda and a 71 Duster 340. I've done a lot of swapping from one to the other.

My 67 Barracuda originally was a slant six car. It had nine inch drums all around, small torsion bars (.83), puny rear springs and a 7 1/4 rear. While it still was a slant six, I swapped in the original HD rear springs and ten inch front drums from my 65 Barracuda, along with .87 torsion bars from Mom's Duster 340 (which my brother rolled), and Addco front and rear sway bars. The small rear end I swapped for an 8 3/4 originally from a 69 Dart that had also been in my 65 Barracuda for years.

The 65 Barracuda got the front disc brakes, rear springs and 8 3/4 rear from the same Duster 340. (Also the motor, bellhousing and driveshaft)

The 69 Dart rear that I put in my 67 had a mild howl, which I figured wouldn't be a problem behind a slant six. After a few years, I swapped the 67's slant six (which had come out of a 76 something or other) for a 74 360/Torqueflite that came out of a scrapped Duster 360. Kept the noisy rear for quite a few years without any problems before taking the chunk to someone who fixed the noise by replacing the bearings. Gears were fine. Also put disc brakes up front. The ten inch drums went into Mom's 64 Barracuda V8, which originally came with nine inch drums.

I also swapped ten inch front drums for the nines that my 63 Valiant convertible originally came with. Later went to the SBP discs up front. Also .85 standard V8 torsion bars. Kept the 7 1/4 rear with its nine inch drums. Valiant still has its slant six. Recently swapped in a set of rebuilt 340 rear springs. Plan to upgrade to some old .87 torsion bars I have sitting around, and also add a 65 front sway bar.

I also put ten inch front drums on my old 66 slant six Barracuda, along with the original slant six rear springs from my 67 Barracuda (the 66 springs had one broken leaf).

As you can see, most everything is swappable 63-72 for sure, and I think with 62s also.

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Forgot I also have a 69 Cuda 383 4-speed fastback, which has been sitting in the corner of my garage for years. It originally had ten inch drums all around, and an 8 3/4 rear with a 3.23 open chunk. (No sure grip behind a 383 4-speed? Who ever thought that was a good idea?) I swapped in a set of SBP disc brakes years ago. I put the front sway bar on my 67, but have all the rest of the original suspension and drivetrain, and will return the original sway bar if I ever get it back on the road.

It was originally an Iowa car, and the front fenders, inner fenders and hood were all rusty, along with one frame rail and a small amount of rust in the rear quarters, but the rest of the car is solid. Shame on me for letting it sit, but at my age I'm getting old and lazy. Also the cost to restore it correctly is discouraging.

What does this have to do with the topic at hand? Not a whole lot, just wanted to post the pic.

1673158579644.png
 
65 Cuda 340 said:
Nine inch spindles, ten inch spindles and disc brake spindles are all unique to the brakes they go with. Upper and lower control arms are the same for all.
Click to expand...
Ok, but if you have swapped 9" brakes for 10" brakes on your 67 Barracuda, then you also swapped the spindles?

Seems swapping 9" to 10" on the front requires 10" spindles and backing plates, but on the rear the backing plates can be swapped on the 7.25.
 
matthon said:
Ok, but if you have swapped 9" brakes for 10" brakes on your 67 Barracuda, then you also swapped the spindles?

Seems swapping 9" to 10" on the front requires 10" spindles and backing plates, but on the rear the backing plates can be swapped on the 7.25.
Click to expand...
Yes, brakes and spindles both have to be changed. The control arms are the same for both (through 72). Then I had to change spindles again when I went from ten inch drums to SBP discs up front.

Have not tried to swap tens for nines on the rear, but actually nine inch brakes in the rear work well with discs up front (that's what I'm running in my 63 Valiant convertible). Or with ten inch drums up front, nines rear, which is what I ran in my old 66 slant six Barracuda. At least you don't have to worry about the rear brakes locking up first, which can be an issue with ten inch rear brakes, requiring either a proportioning valve or smaller brake cylinders in the back. Put the latter in my 67.

Factory could play that game, too. My 56 Plymouth Belvedere V8 was factory equipped with eleven inch drums up front, ten inch drums in the rear. (56 Furies had elevens all around, six cylinder 56 Plymouths had tens all around.) Even stranger is that my Belvedere's eleven inch front brakes have studs and lug nuts, while the ten inch rears have lug bolts that screw into the drums. And yes, that's the way it was delivered when new.
 
And just to elaborate a bit and confirm my memory, I dug through my old Slant 6 News magazines till I found the September 1991 issue, with a write up on 60-62 Valiants and Lancers. In the part titled "Differentiating" the three model years 60-61 and 62, is this:

"The 60 and 61 suspensions are unique. The ball joints, pitman arm, idler arm, etc. do not interchange with any other models. Replacement parts are virtually impossible to obtain today. The 62's suspension was changed and carried on until 1966."

I'm assuming that the author meant that because A bodies were widened in 67, the engine crossmember (K frame) and center link changed in 67. Otherwise, pre and post 67 suspension components are interchangeable. I.e., upper and lower control arms, spindles and brakes all interchange 62-72. You match whatever brakes you're using, not the year.

Also this:

"While all three years came only with the 7 1/4 rearend, which was used until 1976, the 60-62's had different axle bearings (roller) which can still be located today with some difficulty. However, the whole 63-76 7 1/4 rear end can be bolted in, the only problem being the emergency brake cable hook ups."

No mention of a larger front bolt on the springs, so have no idea about that. Also, the emergency brake cables can be swapped. There are two versions: the earlier version had equal length relatively short cables coming out of the brakes, which tie into one long cable which loops around and hooks to a single cable not far from the trans crossmember; the later version has one long and one short cable coming out of the brakes, one crossing over to the drivers side, where both hook into a single cable going forward. You can go either way, as either will hook up to the the rear brakes. I'm running the later style in my 63 Valiant (with 7 1/4 rear) and 65 Barracuda (with 8 3/4 rear). Been a long time since I converted, so I can't remember if you have to change the frontmost part of the cable (coming off the emergency brake handle), or not.
 
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Hopefully this will get you started, but I've never messed with a first gen Valiant. I'm sure that as you get into it, you'll find out some things that I haven't covered above.

I clicked on Blue62Val's link (#3), which, among other things, goes into the various differences from one year to the next on the early Australian Valiants. And that's an interesting history by itself. They are so similar to early US Valiants, but then they are different, too, in sometimes unexpected ways.
 
Great info, thank you.

I roughly measured the same points I listed above on my '62 with 9" brakes, on a '69 Barracuda with 10" brakes.
Same rough measurements.

I did not think to consider e-brake cables, but as you suggested probably not a big deal to work through.

Now, the only question I have is, will a 318 from a 67-69 bolt up to the pushbutton auto in my '62?
 
Can't run a slant six trans behind a V8. Need a 64-5 small block V8 pushbutton trans and an adapter ring around the torque converter hub to fit in a later V8 crank. Can't remember what year they changed, thinking 68, but will have to look it up. Or someone could chime in before I get a chance to do so. I'm gonna take an after dinner nap, so will be gone for a couple of hours. I am an old fart, you know.
 
Yep, changeover year was 1968. 67 318 wouldn't be a problem fitting a 67 and earlier trans. 68 and later small block would require the adapter ring to fit over the earlier torque converter snout and into the back of the later crank. Or, I know the big block pushbutton trans can be fitted with a later torque converter by changing a few parts in the front of the trans case (input shaft and I can't remember what else). I've done that with my 59 Coronet (with 62 Torqueflite) and 64 Polara conv. big blocks. Probably could do that with a small block pushbutton trans, too.

273 Torque converter & transmission

I think CharlieS had those rings at one time.

Someone used to make a kit to run factory pushbuttons with a later non-pushbutton trans. Can't remember if such a kit is still available.

PS: pushbutton trannies are great. Learned how to drive with one. Have four of them right now - 56 Plymouth, 59 Dodge, 63 Valiant, and 64 Polara.
 
matthon said:
I have a '62 Valiant, stock drum brakes, (9" I believe), Mopar 14" sbp Rallye wheels.

The main question is will the front and rear suspension, basically the spindles and drum brakes, 7.25 rear and springs, from a 67-69 a-body with 10" brakes bolt into a 62 Valiant?
Click to expand...

Yes.

matthon said:
Or what is interchangeable?
Click to expand...

What isn't interchangeable is the K-frame, the pitman and idler arms and the centre link.


matthon said:
Differences between 60-61 and 62
Click to expand...

…don't matter, because you have a '62.
 
65 Cuda 340 said:
Yep, changeover year was 1968. 67 318 wouldn't be a problem fitting a 67 and earlier trans. 68 and later small block would require the adapter ring to fit over the earlier torque converter snout and into the back of the later crank. Or, I know the big block pushbutton trans can be fitted with a later torque converter by changing a few parts in the front of the trans case (input shaft and I can't remember what else). I've done that with my 59 Coronet (with 62 Torqueflite) and 64 Polara conv. big blocks. Probably could do that with a small block pushbutton trans, too.

273 Torque converter & transmission

I think CharlieS had those rings at one time.

Someone used to make a kit to run factory pushbuttons with a later non-pushbutton trans. Can't remember if such a kit is still available.

PS: pushbutton trannies are great. Learned how to drive with one. Have four of them right now - 56 Plymouth, 59 Dodge, 63 Valiant, and 64 Polara.
Click to expand...
Not true. All 318's have the larger convertor register. It was only the '67 and older slant 6 and 273 that have the small one.
 
The front spring eye bolt is a smaller size than later "A" bodies on the '60 -'62 cars. I do not know what specific year it was increased. It was easy enough to redrill the '62 front leaf spring mounting bracket to accept the larger bolt. I recently upgraded my '62 driver with a pair of '74 V8 "A" body rear leaf springs. The only negative for me was cosmetic, it raised the rear of the car 1.5" - 2". I also can't say with any certainty if this increase in ride height is due to a different arc as manufactured or just the difference between the tired 4 leaf '62 springs and the 5 leaf '74 springs which were also used. For reference, hypo cars typically have six leaf rear springs. In addition individual leaf thickness is greater (in both 5 & 6 leaf later year springs that I measured) than my '62 springs. I strongly believe it is all in the arc based on them side by side on the ground. Currently have about 10K miles on new springs with no issues other than the cosmetic one mentioned above.
 
Seems you found the 10" spindles should bolt up to your upper control arm and lower ball joint. When you remove the front 10" spindles, be careful to mark L & R since they look almost symmetrical (not quite). I removed for painting in my 1965 Dart then spent hours trying to view photos to see which was L & R. I couldn't quite make out the PN's stamped on the forgings, since usually odd or even last number denotes L & R in Mopar world. I installed so the steering arm (integral w/ lower balljoint) drops down going aft. Another oops, one of the bolts attaching the backing plate to the spindle is threaded, despite also being secured with a nut. I beat that bolt out, stripping the threads in the spindle because ASSumed it was just stuck with rust. Don't recall if it was the fwd or aft bolt hole, which would have told me which spindle was L & R. The 9" spindles have a gooseneck which makes L & R obvious in photos.

Re installing a small-block w/ pushbutton transmission, I have a spare 727 small-block transmission with cable-shift I got off local craigslist "just in case", but would sell since probably never going to need. To fit an early-A, I read you must hammer flat the pinchweld that sticks down at the firewall to tranny tunnel spot-welds. A 727 is also slightly less efficient since beefier, which drag racers prefer. I also don't recall if a 1965 valve body which I've read is different than earlier cable-shift ones. Also vaguely recall stealing the parking cable housing when I cracked my other one when tightening with lever in wrong position. Would only make sense if you are local or along one of my drives from Sacramento to L.A. or S.F. since shipping today is $$$.
 
Sticking with the leaning tower of power.
Doing front suspension swap now, on days above single digits.
 
My choice with my 1964 Valiant, and I even have a spare slant-six and spare cable-shift transmission. A convertible, so taking it slow with the top down is it's mission. Winter is our time to work on cars since the summer sun is brutal and even the garage gets too hot to tolerate. Last summer hit a record high of 116 F.
 
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