1965 Barracuda Build

[GoneShawn]

Hi Guys,
Sorry I missed coffee this morning. Belive me I coulnt sleep, I was awake....up all night trying to make budet decisions.. like pay the morgage or order the short block.
Short block ordered, I can pay the morgage next week haha. I will try to get a quick coffee tommorow morning.

I did want to discuss the pland and build for this car. And get your feedback, because, you guys have see all of what Im doing ....and know the ups and downs.

And, please constructive critisism is appreciated here. I dont mind being told point blank yes, no and maybe not..lol Im a nebwiee to mopar

Lets talk motor and transmission: my personal favorite the grits on it all

I like the 408 for this Barracuda, first : with the aluminum heads it shouldnt be any much heavier than the iron headed 273. Decent power, still on a diet up front.
I like forged crank, forged pistons and forged rods. Weather or not it, will stay together isnt the issue. I once droped an air cleaner washer right down the carb and the forged piston just blew it right out. Also thinking ...hopefull it will help with sleepless nights. Unfortunatly I was sort of pushed into the Magnum block, 408 as the magnum is more readily avalble.If I had my choice it would be all LA. that ship has sailed .

Mini drum roll please (lol) The budget short block came in at $4192 at Jegs.....order placed for the ATK SP57 Magnium. If I remeber correctly with the 61775 edelbrock rpm heads (yes, I know I wanted LA heads too) the compression ratio should be around 10-1... heads are good to about 500HP acorrding to edelbrock. Have not purchased the heads yet, I was close to getting the AFR, was in que and didnt want to deal with machine shop woes, been there done that. were not doing sleeves on a old rusty virgin block. Just send the block and rods bolted together and Ill slap a cam and heads on the mother. Ill be happy with 400HP. If I need to go faster, I grab my other car.

"Transmission" I happen to like the TKX 5 speed. send it all, new wave clutch pedal, metal hump, clutch and bolts, swap the crossover what ever it takes. Got a quote for around $5,500. it probably wont fall apart because it to old,go maximum over drive ,the engine should make up for the wide range gears. street car...aftermarket ac if theres any money left.
Hiway rear end, 411, 565, not for me, how about HI WAY oriented. Pull the old rear end out toss in dumpster and replace.. no idea where to get it..maybe youface or tick tock..

Suspention: drop the car an inch or 2. I learned 2' drop sounds good, found out it like dropping the car a mile on a previous build. we drop the car unti it feels right. Im guessing the Barracuda guys know best, about suspention upgrades and wheel fitment and rear end set ups. Lets do steel wheels, just big enought to fill the wheel wells while the car is dropped just tht 1.5" and keep the plaine Jane hub caps, as long as they stay put under tire spin...... please advise on how to get those wheels and height just right LOL.

My second favorite part: looks that kill; based on this requirment we need two things. Correct fitting wheels (dont need to be wide just fit right) and Super straight spotless black paint job. chrome can be a tiny bit hazy but paint has to be great. Fortunatly I sorta got this one. Im my home garage I would scuff the whole car, Do any body repairs, shoot with PPG shopline epoxy primer. Mud where we need mud. Shoot a gallong of slick sand, block the **** out of the car then shoot a gallon of feather fill.. Block again and again you get it... should look good in black feather fill for a time, real good. Then we have my autobody pal do a final block sand, shoot the sealer and black and clear at his place of buisness, a genuine certified spray booth.

Ive had some cars under restoration for years and years. this is not that car. Its not going to win any shows, just want it to be fun!

Ive attached pictures of the car as it stands today, havent taken off the trailer yet..

the other pictures are just a renderings my my son did. I do not like the wheels or profile of the wheels, I think stock hub caps would look better, and actully.. lets do steel wheels backspaced properly, lets drop the car and take a look..

any and all advise is appreciated, thank you

 

[GoneShawn]

My son said he did the rendering and my apologies if that a Google image of someone else's car although I dont think it is. Either way. We're doing a more of factor wheel. Even hub cap is fine. Maybe not that low some where in the middle and again. This is not my car. Just sorta the vibe Im looking for. Suspension and Wheel recommendation are appreciated. But we taking cheap steel wheels. That all We need on this one. Thanks.

 

[Darter6]

If budget allows thro caution to the wind ! Sounds like a plan.
Drive train idea sounds right for a early A. I had 2 cars done with the Tremec 5 speeds, one with 3.55 rear and another with 4.10.
If doing allot of open road the 3.55 was ok but lazy at speeds under 65. My cam choice may have something to do with that. I prefer the 4.10 for all around.
Sounds like the body and paint is something you can and like to do. To me it's gonna be a long term project. I hope it doesn't burn you out. Go for it.

 

[RustyRatRod]

To heck with the mortgage. Just live in the Barracuda.

 

[junkyardhero]

Ive had some cars under restoration for years and years. this is not that car. Its not going to win any shows, just want it to be fun!

if this was the guise under which i was building a car it would not, under any circumstances see any paint work. that's just bodyshop jail and delay delay delay and $$$ that i could be spending on better upgraded on the car and beef jerky on road trips.

in no particular order:
> the 5spd in nowhere near a bolt in. extensive floor & mount modifications are needed.

> headers on early a bodies are... i don't want to say problematic, but let's go with difficult. very few choices, all of them expensive. leading that with a bigger bellhousing for the upgraded clutch/trans is only going to exacerbate the situation.

> wheels/stance: kind go hand in hand with suspension/brake mods & upgrades. you can get low enough with stock components and not run into any steering geometry problems. 15" wheels will get you there, or they make 17" steelies (and aluminum!). you'll need bigger torsion bars which begets better shocks-- easy enough. upgrade the brakes at the same time.

>rear end: spec out a 9" and be done with it. built to your exact specifications it'll be what you want and drop right in.

>gears: with an OD you're gonna be looking at 3.55 minimum more than likely you'll want 3.91~4.30's

>magnum: somewhat painted yourself into a corner here in that the intake options are limited. go with a head that has both the LA and mag bolt pattern and that way you have a wider swath of intakes to choose from.

there's a WHOLE host of other things, this is but the tip of the iceberg.

anyway, looks like a nice solid car. i'd just rub the paint out, slam in some kick *** running gear, upgrade the suspension and brakes and rock & roll it.

 

[mygasser]

agreed, i love the patina. i'd rather buy the wheels i really want than pay for paint
neil.

 

[GoneShawn]

Oh the woes of autobody jail. 10 grand just to get the metal done. So true. Just to buy the paint is 3 grand. And the car is worth 10 grand when it done. . Haha.

I have a local friend, car nut Rat Rod Billy, he is right .. rust? cut it off and put a louver there and get some fresh air in the right places.. point being dont be worried about cuting the car. Its not the Holy Grail, infact its a myth.. this car , that car is it. its the 19th car from the California plant... its not relivant when your cutting the fenderwall for a header, but relevent if your worried its was 27th at the Atlanta plant........... Billy says No Dice... I tend to agree.

But when is worthless.....worth it. Lets ask you guys?

Never? but, maybe .. lets just run through the hypothetically for a moment.

Let's say we're working with a gorgous 1969 charger RT. I love that car. Its bone stock with a 4 speed and 440. You cut out that transmission tunnel. Put a modern shifter ... And upgrade those clutch pedals you just cut the nuts off the Pope....for some But Rat Rod Billy already streched the rear quarter cause it looks better that way. Cut a C5 corvette into little pieces as it will be perfect rear suspession for his newest creation, and A V12 he chopped out of Jaguar of another car only to cut a old rod car down the middle to build it into a Limo so his wife can be chauffeured around by Him.And That just made his wife so happy.. and Him, on top of the custom car builder program..

And the pig iron dinasour head weight more than their worth. An aluminum head and say, but if I port an iron head it will out do the aluminum head, true often, but thats an alterior fact, an aluminum head can be ported much quicker as its softer and plenty of programs on how get the desired flow.

Now, hypothetically, lets drop a scat hellcat motor in there. Now we spent 40 grand on the car, plus the original value of 40 grand...its faster, its shifts better it modern. Sure you can shift it with your pinky finger, and that hydraulic clutch pedal is nothing to depress. but that was 1 of 1342 Car,, Oh Dear Lord, we cut the holy grail up..lol.

But an old no one, 1965 barracuda is open game, we cut, roll, rivet weld throw half the crap in the dumpster, but keep that mopar vibe that is nostalgic. just like the unmelested 1969 charger, in a round about way.

The charger was worth 40 grand when we started. We spent another 40 grand and its worth, probably worth more ......before we did all that. Unless were talking restomod but again. You really should start with... a wothless car. .

So I think maybe worthless is worth something more in a weird way

We take a worthless car. Drop a modern enging, new type transmission and modern suspension. It drives much like a modern car. And we didn't wreck an iconic muscle car doing it. I want aftermarket ice cubes out of the dash, cut that firwall, no one is looking over your shoulder, did you cut that car up?

Sure... We are still loosing money but not as much of an impact when it was worthless to begin with.

Now Im not saying our cars are worthless. I do hear it alot though. But the truth is somewhere in the middle. Obviously its about half the price of the iconic muscle car on a good day.

On this build, I hope to get the car to the final stage of primer. In my garage. No body work jail. There's no welding on this car. Pull a few dings and spray.

I would ask the body shop to spend 3-5 full days on the car.

Day 1) check my body work and address anything glaring. Now, I do know how to block a car so that helps. 8-16 man hours. I'll take the hit if its less than perfect 16 hours at $100 an hour... lets say $1600

Day 2)seal and spray the car. 4 hours. $400

Day 3) watch the paint dry. Ok maybe a quick cut and buff. Thats probably another 16 hours. $1600

In and out. 3-4 grand and lets not forget the paint another 3K

The $5500 for the transmission and tunnel work is me buying the parts and self performing. I have a welder for the tunnel work. Probably take me 2 months or maybe 3.

leading up to body and paint parole, I will pull the hood, pull the fenders, yank the old motor and tranny, cut, chop hack and blow torch the template in the hump and from there.... I should be able to reach everything easier. At that time we sand and prine the car with fenders off. Jam the car. After the motor is in.. install sheet metal.. long road but I want to push in down to 1 year all in...and enjoy in primer sooner than that. Rat Rod Billy says hes in too so we have a second set of eyes over here .. Hahaha

 

[mygasser]

sounds like a plan

 

[GoneShawn]

Ok, We have a update, ordered ATK SP57 Which is a Magnum 408 short block with Forged Crank, Forged Rods and Forged Pistions. thats a 20.5 dish piston from Jegs.
Summit just started a new promotion, so I ordered the Trickflow 190 heads and the Trickflow Track Heat Intake

Which should be somewhere around 10. to 1 compression ratio.

The trick is order one head at a time to make best use of the "over $1,000 = $80 off and $40 off $500 so i threw in some gasket and a spark plug to get to $500 on the intake .. all together on the 3 items, I got $200 off.. All in stock, went with fully assembled roller hydraulic springs for the extra few bucks..Not to shabby Single plane intake.. just dump it in there..lol

 

[GoneShawn]

Its official on the road from. Tulare California to Boston Massachusetts. Same day the heads showed up. The Mopar Planets are beginning to align

 

[Slugfarm]

Those aren't the spinner hubcaps by any chance...

 

[RustyRatRod]

if this was the guise under which i was building a car it would not, under any circumstances see any paint work. that's just bodyshop jail and delay delay delay and $$$ that i could be spending on better upgraded on the car and beef jerky on road trips.

in no particular order:
> the 5spd in nowhere near a bolt in. extensive floor & mount modifications are needed.

> headers on early a bodies are... i don't want to say problematic, but let's go with difficult. very few choices, all of them expensive. leading that with a bigger bellhousing for the upgraded clutch/trans is only going to exacerbate the situation.

> wheels/stance: kind go hand in hand with suspension/brake mods & upgrades. you can get low enough with stock components and not run into any steering geometry problems. 15" wheels will get you there, or they make 17" steelies (and aluminum!). you'll need bigger torsion bars which begets better shocks-- easy enough. upgrade the brakes at the same time.

>rear end: spec out a 9" and be done with it. built to your exact specifications it'll be what you want and drop right in.

>gears: with an OD you're gonna be looking at 3.55 minimum more than likely you'll want 3.91~4.30's

>magnum: somewhat painted yourself into a corner here in that the intake options are limited. go with a head that has both the LA and mag bolt pattern and that way you have a wider swath of intakes to choose from.

there's a WHOLE host of other things, this is but the tip of the iceberg.

anyway, looks like a nice solid car. i'd just rub the paint out, slam in some kick *** running gear, upgrade the suspension and brakes and rock & roll it.

Beef jerky? Gross.

 

[junkyardhero]

Beef jerky? Gross.

well it's not like i can balance the fondue pot betwixt my knees while i'm doing 90 and weaving in and out of traffic without signaling and listening to new romantic death rock.

 

[RustyRatRod]

well it's not like i can balance the fondue pot betwixt my knees while i'm doing 90 and weaving in and out of traffic without signaling and listening to new romantic death rock.

That's even nastier.

 

[junkyardhero]

That's even nastier.

admit it, you'd have a dip.

 

[RustyRatRod]

admit it, you'd have a dip.

No. Next thing you know, you'll be talkin about these.

 

[mygasser]

No. Next thing you know, you'll be talkin about these.

View attachment 1716509515

that's just wrong

 

[GoneShawn]

Hilarious. Thats good stuff right there. I know where there some pointy caps. They caught my attention. Mine seem to be the plain Jane caps.

But This car is for sale up the road from me. And the caps caught my attention

 

[junkyardhero]

fyi, those are likely 13's or 14's

yours are the barracuda specific caps

 

[GoneShawn]

Cam selection cam up today.

I Was working with Huges. He comes across as old school and really knows his was around a mopar. Iteresting comments:

It takes about 450 hp to push 3000 lbs. to 11 seconds. I suggest our SER3034ALN-10 cam which requires 1129 springs and 5007 lifters. This combo should do 11 seconds easily, if you can hook it up.


that was based on the 20 bulletin questionaire put together on the build, somehow I could live with that I think

you comments and suggetions and more so... your jokes are welcome on the matter lol

 

[junkyardhero]

1- i wouldn't buy anything from hughes unless it was confirmed in stock and ready for immediate shipment

2- you're gonna need stall (or manual trans) and gears

depending on the application, i'd probably choose something that's one or two sizes smaller.

 

[GoneShawn]

1- i wouldn't buy anything from hughes unless it was confirmed in stock and ready for immediate shipment

2- you're gonna need stall (or manual trans) and gears

depending on the application, i'd probably choose something that's one or two sizes smaller.

the transimssion is TKX 5 speed.. I was fighting with myself as to when to pull the motor. ATK says 4-6 weeks for the ATK SP57 to be built and shipped, but once it gets here, I should at least get it bolted down and together, rusy short block= no progress)

I kinda want to buz around in it with the 273, as is just to try it.. may get some slim jims...beef jerky. There is something to be had, even the car inspector said it attracts people the way it is now. Its got a new carb and new tank and Im told buzzes around nice. Although we have 3 feet of snow and salt, thats got to melt first.. lol

Im open to suggestions.. let me attach that questionare i filled out.

Thanks

 

[RustyRatRod]

I purchased ONE thing from Hughes years ago and ended up not using it and selling it. So I cannot speak about their quality. I know they don't grind their own camshafts. Seems I remember someone saying Bullet Cams does it? I'm not sure.

I've seen a LOT of people on here remark about how they will not use Hughes again for one reason or another. The one thing I can say from direct personal experience is Dave is not good with people. He was rude and very short with me on the phone years ago. I don't expect someone to lick my boots, but if I have questions about your product, don't talk to me like I'm a dumbass. I've been doin this a long time, too.

Here's how I figure it. If Hughes was to drop off the planet tomorrow, the Mopar world ain't lost much. I can still do it all without them. They should be happy I decided to call about their products. They were anything but.

 

[GoneShawn]

I purchased ONE thing from Hughes years ago and ended up not using it and selling it. So I cannot speak about their quality. I know they don't grind their own camshafts. Seems I remember someone saying Bullet Cams does it? I'm not sure.

I've seen a LOT of people on here remark about how they will not use Hughes again for one reason or another. The one thing I can say from direct personal experience is Dave is not good with people. He was rude and very short with me on the phone years ago. I don't expect someone to lick my boots, but if I have questions about your product, don't talk to me like I'm a dumbass. I've been doin this a long time, too.

Here's how I figure it. If Hughes was to drop off the planet tomorrow, the Mopar world ain't lost much. I can still do it all without them. They should be happy I decided to call about their products. They were anything but.

I appreciate the feed back and I had a bit of a weird experience, as well. on the phone..twice. so I feel like I totally understand. There is another guy, differnt brand, that cncs all his own heads, blocks and timing covers, in house.. always talked to me, took all my calls and now looking back, I see a huge differnce, I used to say, you could call him in the middle in the night and he would talk you to sleep.

 

[GoneShawn]

Trucker is in the area to drop off. First time I will actually see the car myself. . Its cold and we have some snow ..still got to make some space in the garage. But I have a nice new cover until the garage is ready. Lol.

Oh and there's some brake pads on the way too.