DTM would do the cam swap 10x over and buy all the tools with the remainder of the money, no promises it'll ever run again.. But that's his guarantee.
1971 Demon engine noise
- Thread starter Stereolab42
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that's a very fair stance to take and i'm in the same camp.
however not everybody has the time, skill, ability or means to do *broadly gestures* so for them, if you want to play mopars, you pay.
laughable dan.
you ain't got no skin in the game.
1st, it seems that reading comprehension is eluding you. go back and read what OP said and what i said.
10K was for "worst possible case situation" which, potentially could be a wiped cam; which... wait for it... could mean the motor is coming out.
also, and i can't emphasize this enough-- you don't know the scope of the work.
furthermore, i don't think you can change a cam in situ in 35 hours. in fact i'd bet good money you couldn't. so i guess you're lazy and don't know what you're doing.
^^^ this right here
there is no way of knowing what the scope of the work is, so bemoaning the price is just an exercise in mental masturbation.
you have the internet. google that up amigo. summit or jegs both have pricing easily available.
but keep in mind, it's not just the cam and lifters and some pushrods.
you're likely gonna need new springs to match the roller, which fine because the heads are already off for the roller lifters. but what else do the heads need? count on there being something so there's some dough. then add in a timing chain, because you're there. head gaskets? there's another $200. oil, filter, coolant, there's another $150
**** adds up quick
also, you're stuck on that 10K number. that's not the price for a cam swap. that's a worst possible case situation. get your facts straight, mandingus.
Things do add up rather quickly. I believe you mentioned that a shop may charge $200 a hour, I'd tell them to put the crack pipe down. A local car dealership doesn't even charge that much. As far as swapping out a cam in 35 hours ,probably not a hydraulic roller cam but a hydraulic flat tappet cam, no problem especially if the car doesn't have ac.
and you'd be laughed out of the garageminivan dan said:
woo buddy, do i have news for you... dealers out here are all more than 200/hrminivan dan said:
good luck finding a reputable shop that does modern and classic work. there's one here in town, he's 185/hr and anything vintage takes a back seat to his customer's daily rides. [fyi, dude is stacked with work]. if it's a classic only shop? everybody i know is 6mo or more out for work and not a single one i know of is less than 200/hrminivan dan said:
you're fibbin' my dude. with your hips and back? you'd get halfway thru the teardown and give up and sell the car.minivan dan said:
Vertical videos are lazy, man. STOP recording video that way. Our eyes are NOT arranged like they are shown in the picture above.
I did a roller cam conversion in my 440/495. I replaced the cam-lifters-springs-retainers-locks-seals-pushrods-timing set then you add in gaskets, sealant, anti-freeze, two oil changes and filters and a few other odds and ends and I was right near $3000. This was a cam swap from a solid flat tappet setup that ran fine so there was no hunting for shrapnel or broken parts. The heads came off to set up the springs but I didn't include the cost of head gaskets since I already had them in the shed.
Tools bought and paid for years ago. I didn't guarantee anything.
I remember asking a car dealership where there flat rate manual was when they tried charging me a hour and a half for a 45 minute job, the job was replacing the EGR valve on our mercury marquis with a 302, those valves are easy to access. I left those clowns and stopped by a parts store and bought the valve and changed it myself in 30 minutes. I'd laugh at them for charging a $185.00 an hour. If he can get it more power to him but it'll be a cold day in you know where before I'd pay a $185.00 an hour.
Dan - like it or not, here in rural Florida where I am the dealer's flat rate is $205/hr. I suspect it's more as you get close to Orlando or farther south. Just the way it is.
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And what does the mechanic make? The dealership close to me charges $125 - $205 per hour and it's based on the work needed
It's all a big rip off. There's no way that it's worth over $90 an hour for mechanical work. If I were a young man I'd open up a garage and put some of these clowns out of business. Unfortunately the newer junk requires a dealership because of all the computers on the newer junk.
No computers, no modules, point to point wiring and tons of space to work. Geez, $200 bucks an hour for a simple brake job or alternator change? Man, I was born in the wrong era. Now, custom tuning, high output race stuff etc...That would be a specialty.
laughable.
you'd be so underwater and piss away whatever money you had socked away immediately and be out of business.
the only way to make money is either being super specialized and charge a good lick or you run a general repair shop and make your money on turn and burn with the razor thin margin of labor and parts-- because as a general you need to have *great* techs that can tackle anything and you'll be paying them at least 50% of labor, which leaves the other 50% to cover: insurance, payroll tax, disability, rent, misc. shop expenses AND float your parts bill week to week or whatever.
so now you're not specialized, and don't have the scanners to do the big money jobs... guess who eats your bread and butter? quick lube and tire shops vacuum up all that gravy work which leaves you with BS jobs and cheap asses that don't want to go to the dealer and grind you down on price for every single little thing.
so yeah, enjoy that fantasy there danimal.
*i've intentionally been vague, but this is the gist of it. i've also skipped entirely over the whole building a customer base which takes years to do and begin reaping rewards.
go find a shop that'll work on something old. they don't and they won't.
they want quick bang-bang in and out work, they don't want the liability or problems of working on an old car (if something goes wrong) or something that sits around while it burns potential bay space and labor hours searching for or waiting on parts
classic cars are specialty work. there aren't young guys (or gals) out there cutting their teeth doing grease monkey work for $20 an hour any more.
that era is long gone.
cookietruck
Well-Known Member
Was the valve train making transient random noise bursts with announcements??
Seems like a void that needs to be filled. What is this world coming to?
It just seems crazy weird that no one wants $200 per hour to do what we do for fun. I would suspect that overhead for a classic shop would be way less than for a late model shop. Basic diagnostic and hand tools.
Techs make $100 per hour? Holy ****...Not my Nephew.
4spdragtop
Well-Known Member
Shop rates here are around $100/hr....dealerships $125??
FlamesAreWicked
Well-Known Member
If it were me.. knowing what I know now after sourcing an engine, having a builder go through it, me letting the snowball effect take over with upgrades such as going to a full roller on an engine that only came with a flat tappet originally, alum heads, etc, I should have bought a blueprint 408.
If in your case the cam is hosed, metal has went all through it by that point.. it’ll need to be treated as a full rebuild..
The redeeming quality about my situation was I was able to put a 340 on my 68 Dart. They’re not as easy to come by as they used to be. Or at least that’s what I’m telling myself. What I’ve spent on my engine between parts, labor, machine work, and the price of the core to start with… I could of bought a BP408 fully dressed and ready to drop in for the same money.
Food for thought
The added bonus of the Blueprint engine, they have an impressive warranty to boot..
On a side note, at least in south Louisiana… builders of older engines like older Mopars that aren’t Gen III Hemis, pre-LS small/big block GM, and small/big block fords are few and far between…I do live out in the sticks, so there’s that.
If in your case the cam is hosed, metal has went all through it by that point.. it’ll need to be treated as a full rebuild..
The redeeming quality about my situation was I was able to put a 340 on my 68 Dart. They’re not as easy to come by as they used to be. Or at least that’s what I’m telling myself. What I’ve spent on my engine between parts, labor, machine work, and the price of the core to start with… I could of bought a BP408 fully dressed and ready to drop in for the same money.
Food for thought
The added bonus of the Blueprint engine, they have an impressive warranty to boot..
On a side note, at least in south Louisiana… builders of older engines like older Mopars that aren’t Gen III Hemis, pre-LS small/big block GM, and small/big block fords are few and far between…I do live out in the sticks, so there’s that.
the cost of doing business is astronomical. around here, for a small shop just to open the doors monthly the nut is nearly 5 digits. overhead is unreal, the diag/scanner stuff you'd need for most late model jobs really wouldn't be that much of a barrier to be honest. but again, there's that pesky cost of doing business when you have to pay X $'s a month for the subscription to do updates.
and again, you don't have people lined up around the corner that can or want to do that type of work.
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