318 combo's

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needsaresto

needsaresto

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Post your personal or friends 318 combo. From mild to wild,try to include cam,heads, pistons,etc. Performance figures at the track would be nice too,if ya got em!

Im tempted by 3 different combo's so am hoping to find out if anyone has done em.

1) 318 block/crank/template ported magnum heads/K.B 167 pistons for 10.3:1 /275 DEH comp cam for 468 h.p and 441 ft lb of tq

2) 318 block/360 crank/360 heads with 2.02 intake and full port/low c.h pistons for 10:1 comp,Xe 268H cam for 429h.p and 438 ft lbs tq

3)318 block/318 crank/360 heads with 1.88 valves and pocket porting/K.B 399 pistons for 10.3:1 and 265 deh comp cam for 435/435!

All of these were based on a 4000 lb car which would see daily driver use and have a mild to choppy idle. Also all economical.

All were built up using Camquest 6.

All suggestions appreciated!
 
I think that software is highly optimistic. If you take a look at some of the "real world" magazine builds they've been doing recently, it doesn't seem like they got those numbers with similar (or more radical setups).

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/mopar/0667em_mopar_318_engine/index.html

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0901phr_mopar_318_magnum_engine/index.html

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0304_318_small_block_build/index.html

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0409_318_engine_build/index.html

Last, here's a guy with some details about all of these builds and a little editorial statement at the end:

http://www.dippy.org/forum2/index.php/topic,271.0.html

"Despite all of the modifications to these engines, the torque figures for both builds were lower than that of a basically stock Dodge Magnum 5.9 (360) engine baseline dyno test done for a Mopar Muscle article (Magnum Muscle: Serious Bolt-On Power For Magnum Mills). The camshaft was the stock factory 5.9 cam used in Dodge trucks. The only modifications to the 5.9 were bolt-ons; a Mopar M1 single plane intake, a Barry Grant Mighty Demon 750 CFM carburetor and TTI headers. The 5.9 produced 345 HP at 4,600 RPM and 426 lb/ft of torque at 3,800 RPM - an average of 1,000 RPM lower than both 318 builds."

I think in a heavy car like that you're really going to want a bigger cubic inch combo. More low end torque, less RPM to get the horsepower, thus less gear to make it work.

Example: The DOHC engines out of the 99-ish Mustang Cobras make decent horsepower, but you have to wind the piss out of them to get it (and they weigh about 4000 pounds). OK at the track. Not fun at all on the street. They also have OD so low gears are no big deal to them.

I keep coming back to the idea of screwing around with the stock 318 out of my Dart, but it is only going to weigh about 3000 pounds, its not a daily driver and I come from 5.0 Land so I'm used to working with the smaller motors.

Steve
 
Ya it is optimistic. I think the real purpose in giving away camquest is to sell comp cams!
 
since you're messing around with that software, try to get a flat, broad torque curve starting at a low rpm and peaking out about 5200 rpm. you'll be a lot happier with that in a street car.

I would also use magnum type heads purely for the better chambers and resulting detonation resistance.

I built my 360 to be a torque monster.
360 +0.040
Summit K6901 cam
8:1 pistons
Magnum Heads (static CR about 8.8:1)
Air Gap intake
600 Holley
headers

Desktop dyno 2000 gives me:
RPM HP TQ
2000 140 367
2500 177 373
3000 218 381
3500 263 394
4000 306 401
4500 343 401
5000 367 385
5500 376 359
6000 371 324

I know its a 360 but it shows you how nice a setup like that will work, even in a 318. I don't plan to go much over 5500 so I have lots of usable power, especially for a street car with 3.23's
 
Camquest has an option to ask for an everyday street driver thingy. I did that.

I have a 360 but am saving it for my Dart. The 318 I want to build up for my M body. It's what I have. There were othr cams in the program that made more tq,but I liked these ones. Personal choice yes?
 
'74 Duster. Stock as a rock, 1979 318 with;

open air elemnt air cleaner
600 cfm Holley converter to a 4150
Edelbrock LD4B
Crane Cams @ .050 216/228 - .454/.480 - 112cl
Hooker headers into a 2-1/2 jegs dual exhaust
electric fan (A/C still being driven for now)

904 floor shifted and a 8-1/4 3.21 geared rear on stock tires.

Ran not to well tuned in the cold at ATCO N.J. to the tune of 15.14 @ 89.
OH yea, theres a 14 in there somewhere. Probably as soon as I leave the stock timing behind and jet the carb a bit better.
 
my 318 has stock bottom end with the mopar 509/292 cam,273 adjustible rocker arms,performer rpm intake,650 holley dp,elec igniton,stock 318 heads for now with the springs to match the cams,hooker headers with flowmasters ran great untill the trans went out so now i rebuilt the trans and put my 3000converter in and getting ready to put my 360 heads on that i just got in

no track times yet due to being laid off work and still needs to be finished agian but this summer should be running agian
 
Stock oil burning 318, add performer, intake, 600EB, 260/260 comp cam, and run a 14.93 in a 4.88 gear dually pickup.........


I have built like twice as many 318's as I can count on all my fingers and toes.......... You guys need to pick what combo range your looking for.
 
rumblefish360 said:
'74 Duster. Stock as a rock, 1979 318 with;

open air elemnt air cleaner
600 cfm Holley converter to a 4150
Edelbrock LD4B
Crane Cams @ .050 216/228 - .454/.480 - 112cl
Hooker headers into a 2-1/2 jegs dual exhaust
electric fan (A/C still being driven for now)

904 floor shifted and a 8-1/4 3.21 geared rear on stock tires.
Click to expand...

What converter are you running with this? Does the trans have a shift kit or anything?
 
Its a .030 over 318,federal mogul cast pistons,mp thin head gaskets,302 casting heads,ported,bowl blended,gasket matched by me to 340 felpro intake gaskets.Exhaust side was gasket matched to mr gasket header gaskets.Weiand stealth intake,gasket matched.Lunati voodoo camshaft,with 226/234 duration at .050,494/513 lift.Rpm range is from 1600-6200 rpms.I have a holley 670 street avenger carb,summit 1-5/8 headers,with 2-1/4 inch exhaust,h pipe,flowmaster 3 chambers.Oh,also have the mp windage tray,double roller cloyes timing chain,set straight up.Currently the dart has a stock rebuilt lockup 904,with stock converter(works fine for street driving)an a 7.25 with some high gears(2.76s im guessing)At 80 mph it turns 2500 rpms with 255/70/15s on the rear.The engine will roast the tires at will,even from a 25 mph roll,through all 3 gears.Im waiting on some ecent gears before i swap in the 8.75 with sure grip,and also looking a non lockup 904 for the 3000 stall converter i have,but i feel it is gonna be too much,since the stock converter works so well with this cam.

dart updates 007.jpg


dart updates 009.jpg
 
Add a 4" crank, custom pistons, and a street dominator, and you have my truck motor!

Niiice build!

Got a clip of what it sounds like in a 318?
 
LXguy said:
What converter are you running with this? Does the trans have a shift kit or anything?
Click to expand...

I think Rumble is running a stock TC, but he can attest for that.

I run a 73 318 in my 73 Duster. Stock 8:5:1 TRW pistons, .030 over, Comp XE268 cam, Hooker Supercomp headers, holley 600 carb with 67 primary jets, mopar performance advanced distributor, md coil, orange box, edelbrock performer intake. This runs through a 904 with a Transgo TF2 shift kit, Hughes 2400 TC, and 3.21 geared 8.25 rear. Without a grea tune currently, it has run 14.68 so far, so it is a very peppy cruiser/driver while I build my bracket bomber.
 
LXguy said:
I think that software is highly optimistic. If you take a look at some of the "real world" magazine builds they've been doing recently, it doesn't seem like they got those numbers with similar (or more radical setups).

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/mopar/0667em_mopar_318_engine/index.html

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0901phr_mopar_318_magnum_engine/index.html

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0304_318_small_block_build/index.html

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0409_318_engine_build/index.html

Last, here's a guy with some details about all of these builds and a little editorial statement at the end:

http://www.dippy.org/forum2/index.php/topic,271.0.html

"Despite all of the modifications to these engines, the torque figures for both builds were lower than that of a basically stock Dodge Magnum 5.9 (360) engine baseline dyno test done for a Mopar Muscle article (Magnum Muscle: Serious Bolt-On Power For Magnum Mills). The camshaft was the stock factory 5.9 cam used in Dodge trucks. The only modifications to the 5.9 were bolt-ons; a Mopar M1 single plane intake, a Barry Grant Mighty Demon 750 CFM carburetor and TTI headers. The 5.9 produced 345 HP at 4,600 RPM and 426 lb/ft of torque at 3,800 RPM - an average of 1,000 RPM lower than both 318 builds."

I think in a heavy car like that you're really going to want a bigger cubic inch combo. More low end torque, less RPM to get the horsepower, thus less gear to make it work.

Example: The DOHC engines out of the 99-ish Mustang Cobras make decent horsepower, but you have to wind the piss out of them to get it (and they weigh about 4000 pounds). OK at the track. Not fun at all on the street. They also have OD so low gears are no big deal to them.

I keep coming back to the idea of screwing around with the stock 318 out of my Dart, but it is only going to weigh about 3000 pounds, its not a daily driver and I come from 5.0 Land so I'm used to working with the smaller motors.

Steve
Click to expand...

It's funny you should mention that mopar muscle build. That 318 went 410 h.p with a 280H cam,KB 176 pistons,stock rods and stock magnums.Hell,they didnt even use an air gap intake and went with an M1 single plane. Later article they tore the engine down and discovered a bad cylinder.So bad they sleeved it. Then they went to work on the magnums and ported them. They got another 41% of flow out of the exhaust side! not all needed as they only managed another 34 cfm from the intake. But this was with stock valves and simple mods like 3 angle valve job,cleaning up the bowls and guide,short side raduis etc. No major porting done. Something I could do in a long day or a lazy weekend. And 90% of the work is done to the intake side.

And here lies the secret to the magnums advantage. Very little porting required and excellent flow balance of 75 to 80%. Cant put up big flow #'s like a 340 head but you dont need to because the exhaust is working better than a 340 could ever dream about. Therefore the exhaust and intake complement each other. Not at all like an L.A head where that nasty dogleg jams everything up.

I think of ports like this; as rivers or creeks that have dams which divert or direct the flow of the water. So if you have a big initial flow/area in the first section but then it's forced into this tight twisted section guess what? It slows down and even becomes turbulent! So we change the design. Reduce the initial flow area but drastically increase the exit area by straightening it out. Also,increase the depth of the river making the shape tall and skinny. Result is the water now flows evenly and rapidly!. In fact the exit flows so well it helps pull flow from the intake and speeds things even more. As long as we dont overdo it on the exit end...

Personally I feel that while the camquest #s are optimistic,I did input realistic flow #s for the magnum port job and because of the exhaust flow,these heads favour a single pattern cam. Most dyno programs are optimistic! They are all about selling parts.

However....

Speaking from experience I also feel another 50-60 h.p is not unrealistic after porting. So if mopar muscle got a dyno proven 410 h.p with a 280H cam and a bum cylinder,is 460 h.p unrealistic? Probably not. There was lots left to do to that motor....I figure they left at least 20-30 h.p on the table with thier combo.Add in porting and a cam change,lighter rods,engine balancing and blueprinting...who knows?
 
needsaresto said:
.I figure they left at least 20-30 h.p on the table with thier combo.Add in porting and a cam change,lighter rods,engine balancing and blueprinting...who knows?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that second article is a ported magnum head combo that made 477 hp.

I wish they would post the links to the subsequent articles in those on-line writeups.
 
Hmm,wouldn't that be nice!

As for that Dippy.org write up. Of course the motor lost torque. It was a stock TRUCK MOTOR BUILT TO MAKE TORQUE !!!!!!
 
tobysoldblue said:
Its a .030 over 318,federal mogul cast pistons,mp thin head gaskets,302 casting heads,ported,bowl blended,gasket matched by me to 340 felpro intake gaskets.Exhaust side was gasket matched to mr gasket header gaskets.Weiand stealth intake,gasket matched.Lunati voodoo camshaft,with 226/234 duration at .050,494/513 lift.Rpm range is from 1600-6200 rpms.I have a holley 670 street avenger carb,summit 1-5/8 headers,with 2-1/4 inch exhaust,h pipe,flowmaster 3 chambers.Oh,also have the mp windage tray,double roller cloyes timing chain,set straight up.Currently the dart has a stock rebuilt lockup 904,with stock converter(works fine for street driving)an a 7.25 with some high gears(2.76s im guessing)At 80 mph it turns 2500 rpms with 255/70/15s on the rear.The engine will roast the tires at will,even from a 25 mph roll,through all 3 gears.Im waiting on some ecent gears before i swap in the 8.75 with sure grip,and also looking a non lockup 904 for the 3000 stall converter i have,but i feel it is gonna be too much,since the stock converter works so well with this cam.
Click to expand...

Do I spot a GM HEI distributor or is my sight failing?
 
Here's my combo:

318 .030 over
KB399 pistons
340 forged crank ground .010/.010
studded mains
Eagle SIR rods
Mopar windage tray
Melling HV oil pump
Milodon Street/Strip 8qt pan & pick-up
Comp solid cam 236*@50/.495 lift
iron 1.5 mopar rockers
587 casting heads rebuilt/ported by Aerohead, 2.02/1.60 valves
viscous fan
Victor 340 intake, port matched
1" open plastic spacer
650 Holley DP
36* total timing, no vacuum advance
approx 10.5:1 compression
Hedman 1 5/8" street headers

727 with a TransGo TF2 shift kit
PTC 9.5" converter, stalls @ 3600

3.91 gears with crappy, old 26" slicks
Mopar SS 3000lb springs

Car's a bit of a porker, weighing in at 3640 with me behind the wheel and a full tank of gas. The transmission's been on the fritz for a while too and has some serious binding problems in the forward gears (don't worry, it hasn't been raced like that). Managed to click off a best of 13.5 @ 100 MPH, but I think there's more in there yet. :grin:
 
Sounds like a nicely built 318!

Keep em comin guys...
 
yeah guys having just got into my motor and having a 318/904 combo myself i am watchin this one for sure. keep em coming!
 
I like this thread.
My 318 in my 74 dart is mostly original. New performer intake, 650 cfm edelbrock carb, hooker headers, 2 1/2" with h-pipe flowmaster exhaust, the rest is original engine with 170,000 miles. The tranny is a rebuilt 727 with shift kit. The rear end is stock. Not sure what size and what gears though...
 
Yes,i lke this thread too. I have a lopo 318 in my M and am considering different options. It's a factory 318 4 bbl cop car with 360 heads...probably around 7.5:1.I swapped in a small isky grind rv,and an eddie 650 avs,fbo ign, 3:55 gears,shift kit and custom large single exhaust. Go's not bad for a fat ***.

Want a serious power upgrade for it. Thats why I've been playing with DD Dyno and camquest.

Also on a real tight budget with 2 little kids and a wife who,fortunately makes our home for us. Thats why I like the 349 build. Looks like a great budget build. I dont even think one would have to machine much,other than the 360 crank. Piston clearancing of skirts could be done with a template and a die grinder/sandpaper roll. Been looking for one here but shipping costs negate any kind of good deal.
 
Well here is mine: Mind you this is a 12 year old motor after the rebuild, it has run a best of 13.55 @ 102 mph but now 12 years later it has run a best of 14.14.
Stock '68 318 .030 over block with sealed power hyp. pistons. balanced and windage tray.
Heads are stock heads with 1.88 1.60 valves installed and then gasket matched and the bowls cleaned up. Comp Cams 280H. Cast iron 4bbl intake with a Thermoquad with drilled out squirters, high volume needle and seats. TTI headers w 3" exhaust to the axles.When it ran the 13.55 it had 3.91 gears in it with street tires. The heads at the time were very cheaply done. We knurled the valve guides so that is some of the power loss I am guessing.

I am right now starting on a pair of magnum heads that all I need to do now is gasket match and clean up the bowls, I am not going to go too crazy with these heads. A air gap manifold will go on there with a holley 750 dp.

Oh yeah I have a 2800 stall in a A904 with a shift kit. Maybe tomarrow I will get a video up here with my roofless dart burning the hides:grin:
 
mean318 said:
Well here is mine: Mind you this is a 12 year old motor after the rebuild, it has run a best of 13.55 @ 102 mph but now 12 years later it has run a best of 14.14.
Stock '68 318 .030 over block with sealed power hyp. pistons. balanced and windage tray.
Heads are stock heads with 1.88 1.60 valves installed and then gasket matched and the bowls cleaned up. Comp Cams 280H. Cast iron 4bbl intake with a Thermoquad with drilled out squirters, high volume needle and seats. TTI headers w 3" exhaust to the axles.When it ran the 13.55 it had 3.91 gears in it with street tires. The heads at the time were very cheaply done. We knurled the valve guides so that is some of the power loss I am guessing.

I am right now starting on a pair of magnum heads that all I need to do now is gasket match and clean up the bowls, I am not going to go too crazy with these heads. A air gap manifold will go on there with a holley 750 dp.

Oh yeah I have a 2800 stall in a A904 with a shift kit. Maybe tomarrow I will get a video up here with my roofless dart burning the hides:grin:
Click to expand...

springs.http://hughesengines.clients.nharmo...h&search=1110&searchmode=keyword&partid=10280

retainers.http://hughesengines.clients.nharmo...h=1278&searchmode=keyword&page=3&partid=23197
You can reuse the stock locks. No machining necessary

Vids!!
Cool!! 8)

No need to go crazy on the mags. I have a set myself. Just clean em up. The ports have lots of flash ( at least mine do ). Bowls are damn nice already. Get a good 3 angle valve job and concentrate more on the intake side. The exhaust is great already. Retainer to guide clearance can be minimal so check it.Good springs and retainers can be had from Hughs engines for about $130.
 
Lots of nice 318 builds guys, but there seems to be something missing. How much over stock was your rebore? My 318 turns out to be 324 with a slight over bore, and every bit of over bore makes more horse power. Now throw in a rebore using head plates and things change even more. I have seen 318s from stock to 4 inch bore making all different kinds of power with similar combos. It would be interesting to see what everyone has done with their 318 in terms of reboring
 
I dont totally disagree but..There is a practical limit to overboring in the sense that too much and your bore loses concentricity at high rpm and is no longer round,just because it's not stiff anymore. Later 318's I'd stay around .030. Earlie ones may handle more.

And yes,honing plates make a difference.
 
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