318 LA tear-down

[jgchemie]

I'm tearing down my 318 LA engine from a 1969 A108 van. Potentially going to rebuild the bottom and add new heads, cam and manifold. This van is for street driving and road trips.

Questions:
How much further into the block should I break it down? All the way and hone cylinders and install new pistons/rings and bearings?
I'm assuming yes.

What are the pros/cons of reusing versus replacing the crank and rods? (I could also add a stroker with tappet cam.)

Are these pictures showing normal build-up for an engine with 88,*** miles?

Thanks!

 

[pishta]

I there a ridge on top of the bore? That usually tells you the extent of the cylinder condition. Does it smoke? Is the compression bad? If the cylinders are good (lots of magnums dont even show a ridge and can still see hatch marks, hard blocks!) you could just do a ball hone glaze break, rering and bearings. Could be another 100K out of it. Depends on the cylinder wear. Same on the crank: pull it and look at the bearing journals: scratched enough to catch a fingernail? Bearings down to the copper? Crank end play too much? Many times cranks are good enough to just install new bearings or cut them .010 and run new undersized bearings. Its really up to you and the condition of the motor as to know if an oversize/undersize rebuild is mandatory or just a bearing and rings rebuild. Definately get a valve job, they will get those heads looking new and address and valve sink.

 

[jgchemie]

I there a ridge on top of the bore? That usually tells you the extent of the cylinder condition. Does it smoke? Is the compression bad? If the cylinders are good (lots of magnums dont even show a ridge and can still see hatch marks, hard blocks!) you could just do a ball hone glaze break, rering and bearings. Could be another 100K out of it. Depends on the cylinder wear. Same on the crank: pull it and look at the bearing journals: scratched enough to catch a fingernail? Bearings down to the copper? Crank end play too much? Many times cranks are good enough to just install new bearings or cut them .010 and run new undersized bearings. Its really up to you and the condition of the motor as to know if an oversize/undersize rebuild is mandatory or just a bearing and rings rebuild. Definately get a valve job, they will get those heads looking new and address and valve sink.

The engine hasn't been run in 13+ years. I bought it knowing the engine was an unknown so I'm trying to figure it out by inspection. No information on the compression or smoke. There is a tiny ridge at the top of the cylinders that catches my finger nail but very minimal.

The lifters looked very smooth with no discoloration, although I'm assuming I'll replace them if I put in a new cam.

 

[pishta]

yes new lifters on any other cam is a must. If you budgeted new pistons and a bore, go for it. all concerns gone about cylinder health. If your on a shoestring budget...I've take motors down that had large 1mm ridges on them and they ran decent before that. I've also put motors back with barely any ridge, new rings and bearings and they ran like a top. Its just money, you can always make more.

 

[jgchemie]

yes new lifters on any other cam is a must. If you budgeted new pistons and a bore, go for it. all concerns gone about cylinder health. If your on a shoestring budget...I've take motors down that had large 1mm ridges on them and they ran decent before that. I've also put motors back with barely any ridge, new rings and bearings and they ran like a top. Its just money, you can always make more.

Ha yeah it's just money....I'm about to send the van for re-painting and know that is going to cost a lot so I'm trying to not break the bank with the engine! But I don't want to have to pull the engine again as that was a pain in the butt for this van.

Good info on the lifter- I won't bother keeping them in any order. Definitely not a 1 mm ridge on the cylinder. I think this van was driven by a family for camping and treated well.

 

[pishta]

Ive seen 40 year old campers with 30K on them. Sometimes you get a creampuff. My 360 I bought from a camper special looked sludgy but the cylinders were pristine, probably a low mile 360. Cam kit, new rings and bearings...good luck!

 

[jgchemie]

Thanks for the help! I'll post updates or questions as I continue this build.

 

[Max1196]

Do pop out the cam and inspect those cam bushings, after 55 years things start to fall apart, including the babbitt on those bushings!

 

[jgchemie]

I'm down to the small block- lifters out, oil pan off. Need to get a puller to remove the harmonic balancer before I can do much more! Will definitely inspect all bearings and likely replace especially if I put in a new cam. So far it's looking like very little wear - just lots of grim and sludge.

 

[furrystump]

Really, what do you want to do with it? A good running, neat van you can reliably drive ANYWHERE or a street terror that demons should fear? Or anywhere in between? If you decide to stroke it, for 300-400 you can get a 360 to use instead. This is not to run down a 318, but if performance is your goal and you lean towards the terror side. it costs about the same to build a stroker 360 as a 318 stroker. Is this 318 a stepping stone?

 

[4spdragtop]

I had a 69 Sport Satellite with factory 2bl 318. Great little engine. I believe they were rated 230 hp?? Not sure what your van 318 would be rated for. Pretty good factory hp. Yes the 360 has more, but what bs do you have to change? Timing cover? Rad possibly due to inlet differences?? Do the 318 and you can "add" as need be. The $$ you save can go towards torque converter and gears(if need be).
Good luck

 

[jgchemie]

I want this to be a van I can use for high way trips to go camping and a little fun on the road. Not for racing!

Right now I have a 318 block that looks fairly nice that I could add 4" to and keep the stock transmission. Or I could add a stroker to my 400 bb and swap the transmissions (at $750 for the rebuild) plus lots of headaches over the doghousing on the engine..... but that would be one hell of a little van!

 

[furrystump]

If that is your end goal build the 318. You will be happy with it. There are builds on here for the 318 from mild to wild. Definitely what you are looking to do.

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

if you want it to be a reliable Highway driver I would approach it like this...

I would take a bore gauge and measure all the cylinders after I tore it apart to see how out of round and tapered they are only if I don't see a ginormous Ridge at the top already. If it's .0025+ out of round, id bore it and buy flat pistons for a 1971 318, or roughly ones with a 1.74 or 1.75 comp height, then id mill the block .020 because they are usually about .020 taller than listed..then check the head chamber volume/cc and mill the heads about .040 if they are bigger than 68cc. The head gasket will eat up .025 of what you.. mill therefore you'll only have about a .035 height change in intake manifold height which will bolt up fine. Have a good valve job done, no flash or ridge left underneath it in the bowl.
Then a small cam, 252 duration or something like that. Done.

The blueprinting machine work is most of a good engine. Know what you have.
It will run like the money/effort you put into it.

 

[jgchemie]

if you want it to be a reliable Highway driver I would approach it like this...

I would take a bore gauge and measure all the cylinders after I tore it apart to see how out of round and tapered they are only if I don't see a ginormous Ridge at the top already. If it's .0025+ out of round, id bore it and buy flat pistons for a 1971 318, or roughly ones with a 1.74 or 1.75 comp height, then id mill the block .020 because they are usually about .020 taller than listed..then check the head chamber volume/cc and mill the heads about .040 if they are bigger than 68cc. The head gasket will eat up .025 of what you.. mill therefore you'll only have about a .035 height change in intake manifold height which will bolt up fine. Have a good valve job done, no flash or ridge left underneath it in the bowl.
Then a small cam, 252 duration or something like that. Done.

The blueprinting machine work is most of a good engine. Know what you have.
It will run like the money/effort you put into it.

You're the first person that hasn't suggested I don't put in a stroker or something to boost torque and power. While I haven't actually driven this van (it wasn't running when I bought it) I do have a 1969 Fury with a stock 318 and I wouldn't call it under powered by any means. Thanks for your thoughts!

I'll talk with my local machinist about these changes. There is little to no ridge at the top of the cylinders. Honestly, I was thinking of honing myself, buying a stroker kit and some aluminum heads and reassembling with a new timing chain, mild cam, and four barrel carb. It seems like I could get away with minimal machine work and do most, if not all the work in my garage. I do want to be wary of the compression ratio as I'd like to run pump gas.

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

You're the first person that hasn't suggested I don't put in a stroker or something to boost torque and power. While I haven't actually driven this van (it wasn't running when I bought it) I do have a 1969 Fury with a stock 318 and I wouldn't call it under powered by any means. Thanks for your thoughts!

I'll talk with my local machinist about these changes. There is little to no ridge at the top of the cylinders. Honestly, I was thinking of honing myself, buying a stroker kit and some aluminum heads and reassembling with a new timing chain, mild cam, and four barrel carb. It seems like I could get away with minimal machine work and do most, if not all the work in my garage. I do want to be wary of the compression ratio as I'd like to run pump gas.

I listen to what people want.
If its about the same money...then ill offer an idea or 2.
318's are great highway/commuter engines.

I'll also point out that power is addicting and in an application where you don't need it...if you have a taste of it..you become addicted. Pretty quick too... but then you miss the original 'end goal' by being distracted by "umph"...and then you have less mileage, less drivability etc depending the type of detour you take.