Just put in a 360 LA engine in my 69 Swinger. I hooked everything up went to turn it over. It turns over but not starting. I replaced the fuel pump because I took the fuel line off of the pump and it was bone dry. Put the fuel line back on still nothing. Put some gas directly in the Edelbrock 1407 carb and it just spit it back out when I turned it over. After several attempts of trying to turn it over I notice an almost hissing sound. Could this be a vacuum leak? That's where I'm at with this. I don'rt want to start doing 15 different things at once. I just want somewhere to start. Also I notice that the ground strap that I have mounted from my firewall to my valve cover is warm while cranking.
360 Engine cranks but won't start
- Thread starter Spunk
- Start date
-
Where's your timing at?
frederick_76
Well-Known Member
Did changing the pump get fuel to the engine? If not, I would still work on that problem.
Spunk - First, is your timing on? Meaning did you set correctly when you installed the distributor and such? Many articles on this, please check. Second is your firing order correct? If this two are correct we are off to fuel, air, and spark.
Hissing sound is probably compression - that's a good sign
spark, are you getting spark to the plugs, pull one, ground it and see if it sparks when someone cranks it. fix this issue before moving to next
Fuel/Air - If all the above are correct make sure you have both getting into the carb. I use a small one-way fuel squirter on early start to make sure it fires.
Ground strap - Means you are cranking a lot - no issues yet, just using a lot of battery trying to start this things.
Last issue - if this is a fresh rebuild, are you getting oil pressure? Rule of thumb is you want to fire up quick with new non-roller style cam for break-in.
Keep us posted
Hissing sound is probably compression - that's a good sign
spark, are you getting spark to the plugs, pull one, ground it and see if it sparks when someone cranks it. fix this issue before moving to next
Fuel/Air - If all the above are correct make sure you have both getting into the carb. I use a small one-way fuel squirter on early start to make sure it fires.
Ground strap - Means you are cranking a lot - no issues yet, just using a lot of battery trying to start this things.
Last issue - if this is a fresh rebuild, are you getting oil pressure? Rule of thumb is you want to fire up quick with new non-roller style cam for break-in.
Keep us posted
MrDuster
Well-Known Member
Hi Spunk, Sorry to hear it won't start. Some more information would be helpful...pictures help too. Don't know about the warm grounding strap--picture of that would be good. My quick thoughts: Air's not an issue, so that leave's fuel and spark. Since you've identified a fuel issue I'd start there. Are you getting fuel now? What type of fuel pump are you using...mechanical or electric. If it's delivering fuel, check for spark. Ignition system-points or electronic? If no fuel..might need to prime the fuel pump or check for proper install. Hopefully something simple...let us know. Good luck.
No start is caused by one or two issues. Gas or spark.
first check for spark. Get a spare spark plug and remove a spark plug wire from one of the plugs in the engine and put it on the wire that you removed. Then hold the bottom electrode of the spark plug to the engine for ground and have someone crank the engine over. Is it getting spark?
If yes, then make sure that you are getting fuel. Cycle the carb linkage and look down the carb for a squirt of gas. You should get a squirt when you stroke the linkage. Or get a jar and pour a little gas down the carb while holding the throttle open. Then crank it over.
If you are getting gas and spark, then it's just a matter of finding the right spot to set the distributor. For a fresh start, put the engine at TDC, and remove the distributor cap. Look where the rotor is pointing to, and then put the cap on and get the #1 spark plug terminal to line up with the rotor (and maybe a few degrees advanced). then crank the engine over, and it should start, then set the timing with a timing light when it's running.
first check for spark. Get a spare spark plug and remove a spark plug wire from one of the plugs in the engine and put it on the wire that you removed. Then hold the bottom electrode of the spark plug to the engine for ground and have someone crank the engine over. Is it getting spark?
If yes, then make sure that you are getting fuel. Cycle the carb linkage and look down the carb for a squirt of gas. You should get a squirt when you stroke the linkage. Or get a jar and pour a little gas down the carb while holding the throttle open. Then crank it over.
If you are getting gas and spark, then it's just a matter of finding the right spot to set the distributor. For a fresh start, put the engine at TDC, and remove the distributor cap. Look where the rotor is pointing to, and then put the cap on and get the #1 spark plug terminal to line up with the rotor (and maybe a few degrees advanced). then crank the engine over, and it should start, then set the timing with a timing light when it's running.
OK so this is where Im at. I got a top dead piston setter put that in the #1 plug crancked the engine(manually)until the piston came TDC. Put the distributor back in and tried to start. No luck. I bought an ignition coil cuz the one I had was the older style tried to start it again this time I got serios backfire. Just one though. My exhaust is not hooked up my headers are on though so it was pretty loud. Still won't start. Now once that piston came all the was up was that when I was supposed to put the plug in and hook everything back up? Or was I supposed to do something after that? Im almost sure I was supposed to cranck it back the other way then drop the distributor. Im so confused. But hey I must be getting close I got back fire!!! I have pics but have no idea how to post them.
dano
Evil Handy Man
Well you were either at top dead center intake stoke or top dead center exhaust stroke. For giggles you could remove your distributor and turn the rotor 180 deg and put it back in, or pull the valve cover and watch the valves move to determine what stroke your on. Once you are at TDC intake, install the distributor and wire the plug wires where ever #1 lands on the rotor/distributor location and yes pull the TDC tool and install your plug and wire. Do not crank it back words.
I hope you didn't try and start it with the TDC tool in. If so you may now have a bigger problem.
I hope you didn't try and start it with the TDC tool in. If so you may now have a bigger problem.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
TDC does not tell you whether the no1 is ready to fire, or whether no6 is ready, IE they fire every other crank turn, alternately.
You probably have the distributor in "180 out" meaning it's 1/2 turn off. You can do this by pulling the dist. and rotating the shaft 1/2 turn, or you can just relocate the plug wires
I always pull no1, stick my finger in the plug hole, and bump the engine. You know how to "jumper" the starter relay? Use a screwdriver across the two largest exposed terminals.
You may have to "go round" a couple of times until you realize what to feel. You are looking for a huge puff against your finger.
When you START to feel that, stop and use a wrench if possible to more accurately move the crank. Bring the timing marks up towards TDC but SET the marks "where you want" timing, that is, about 12-15 degrees BTC for a stock / mild camshaft
At that point, with the cap off, either adjust the distributor "from" retard towards advance, that is, first move the distributor BODY CW, then come back (advancing) CCW so that the points just open, or if electronic, set the reluctor wheel tip in the center of the pickup coil core.
Now you should have the rotor "approaching" a corner of a plug wire tower coming CW. This is your no1 plug tower. Put the wires in CW from there in firing order.
You probably have the distributor in "180 out" meaning it's 1/2 turn off. You can do this by pulling the dist. and rotating the shaft 1/2 turn, or you can just relocate the plug wires
I always pull no1, stick my finger in the plug hole, and bump the engine. You know how to "jumper" the starter relay? Use a screwdriver across the two largest exposed terminals.
You may have to "go round" a couple of times until you realize what to feel. You are looking for a huge puff against your finger.
When you START to feel that, stop and use a wrench if possible to more accurately move the crank. Bring the timing marks up towards TDC but SET the marks "where you want" timing, that is, about 12-15 degrees BTC for a stock / mild camshaft
At that point, with the cap off, either adjust the distributor "from" retard towards advance, that is, first move the distributor BODY CW, then come back (advancing) CCW so that the points just open, or if electronic, set the reluctor wheel tip in the center of the pickup coil core.
Now you should have the rotor "approaching" a corner of a plug wire tower coming CW. This is your no1 plug tower. Put the wires in CW from there in firing order.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Checking for spark:
You have two power sources so it's important to understand
With the key in "run" the ignition gets power from the "run" circuit, known as IGN1 IN MOST cars this goes dead when moving the key to "start"
When cranking the engine WITH THE KEY and IGN1 "run" dead, the ignition gets power from a second contact in the switch, a brown wire that feeds out to the coil + side of the ballast.
The point is if you are "checking for spark" and you are jumpering the start relay to do so, you will get a WEAK spark, because this bypass circuit is not active.
You can "rig" a spark gap with the coil wire and a plug, but it's better to use a spark gap tester and a solid--not resistor plug wire. Again, while using the key to crank, you should get a nice snappy blue spark, minimum of 3/8" and typically as much as 1/2" long
You have two power sources so it's important to understand
With the key in "run" the ignition gets power from the "run" circuit, known as IGN1 IN MOST cars this goes dead when moving the key to "start"
When cranking the engine WITH THE KEY and IGN1 "run" dead, the ignition gets power from a second contact in the switch, a brown wire that feeds out to the coil + side of the ballast.
The point is if you are "checking for spark" and you are jumpering the start relay to do so, you will get a WEAK spark, because this bypass circuit is not active.
You can "rig" a spark gap with the coil wire and a plug, but it's better to use a spark gap tester and a solid--not resistor plug wire. Again, while using the key to crank, you should get a nice snappy blue spark, minimum of 3/8" and typically as much as 1/2" long
Definitely didn't get a blue spark it was orangeish and it was one long one followed by short ones. Ok so now I should take the dist out turn the rotor 180 put back in rewire.
I put pics on the photo gallery under 360 Engine. I could not figure out how to upload them to here.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Yikes I don't know how to find those photos..........
Tell me exactly what you are using to check, that is, you using a factory plug wire or coil wire? These are resistor wires and will produce an orange spark.
Let's try something a bit completely different. Follow this exactly
1.......Make sure battery is charged, as messing with a baulky engine, it's easy to get "down."
2.....If you don't have, get a multimeter. I would not spend over 40 bucks. Go to Rad Shack or make some clip leads (alligator clips) and get yourself a 12V test lamp, and if you can, a spark gap tester,
3....For the immediate, clip a wire from the big stud on the starter relay (this is battery) over to the coil PLUS connector. Don't leave this on more than a minute to make this test
3...Rig a grounded wire to something like a screwdriver (probe) and hold it near the top of the coil tower.
4...Take a screwdriver and jumper across the starter relay, that is, the two large exposed terminal. Make certain the transmission is in park / neutral/ out of gear
You should get "rythmic" sparks and as earlier, at least 3/8" long
=====================================
With the server crash, I've forgotten where we are?
Do you have a breaker points distributor?
(One single wire lead directly from distributor to coil NEG?)
Or Mopar electronic ignition?
(two-wire lead with rubber connector to harness)
Or some other aftermarket igniton?
Tell me exactly what you are using to check, that is, you using a factory plug wire or coil wire? These are resistor wires and will produce an orange spark.
Let's try something a bit completely different. Follow this exactly
1.......Make sure battery is charged, as messing with a baulky engine, it's easy to get "down."
2.....If you don't have, get a multimeter. I would not spend over 40 bucks. Go to Rad Shack or make some clip leads (alligator clips) and get yourself a 12V test lamp, and if you can, a spark gap tester,
3....For the immediate, clip a wire from the big stud on the starter relay (this is battery) over to the coil PLUS connector. Don't leave this on more than a minute to make this test
3...Rig a grounded wire to something like a screwdriver (probe) and hold it near the top of the coil tower.
4...Take a screwdriver and jumper across the starter relay, that is, the two large exposed terminal. Make certain the transmission is in park / neutral/ out of gear
You should get "rythmic" sparks and as earlier, at least 3/8" long
=====================================
With the server crash, I've forgotten where we are?
Do you have a breaker points distributor?
(One single wire lead directly from distributor to coil NEG?)
Or Mopar electronic ignition?
(two-wire lead with rubber connector to harness)
Or some other aftermarket igniton?
I have pictures! I have the old style its yellow and huge.lol
Oh by the way its on jack stands it aint goin nowhere.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Yup. You have a Mopar breakerless conversion. Stuff to do
1........The orange box MUST be grounded. MUST. Remove, scrape around the bolt holes on the firewall and back of the box, and remount "tight" using star lock washers
2.......The rubber distributor connector is a very very low signal. This connector is subject to corrosion. Remove that connector and 'work' it in and out several times to "scrub" the terminals.
Remove the cap, inspect cap and rotor for dirt, water, wear, carbon tracking. Inspect the pickup coil and reluctor for damage and rust / debri. Pickup is magnetic, so it can pick up bits of rust
3....Remove ballast resistor connector and ECU connector and work them in / out several times.
4....Later when you get the chance, put on your list. Buy a .008" (inches not metric) BRASS (nonmagnetic) feeler gauge, O'Reallys used to have them in a small set. You use this to check the reluctor to pickup coil gap, which adjusts just like points used to
5...Clip your voltmeter to the coil + and turn the key to run. You should see somewhere around 5--8 volts plus or minus.
With key in run, check coil NEG. It should be very low voltage, lower the better, perhaps 1/2 a volt
6....With the meter back on coil + crank the engine using the key. Voltage should be "same as battery," and not less than 10.5 volts, absolute min. 10V Higher the better.
1........The orange box MUST be grounded. MUST. Remove, scrape around the bolt holes on the firewall and back of the box, and remount "tight" using star lock washers
2.......The rubber distributor connector is a very very low signal. This connector is subject to corrosion. Remove that connector and 'work' it in and out several times to "scrub" the terminals.
Remove the cap, inspect cap and rotor for dirt, water, wear, carbon tracking. Inspect the pickup coil and reluctor for damage and rust / debri. Pickup is magnetic, so it can pick up bits of rust
3....Remove ballast resistor connector and ECU connector and work them in / out several times.
4....Later when you get the chance, put on your list. Buy a .008" (inches not metric) BRASS (nonmagnetic) feeler gauge, O'Reallys used to have them in a small set. You use this to check the reluctor to pickup coil gap, which adjusts just like points used to
5...Clip your voltmeter to the coil + and turn the key to run. You should see somewhere around 5--8 volts plus or minus.
With key in run, check coil NEG. It should be very low voltage, lower the better, perhaps 1/2 a volt
6....With the meter back on coil + crank the engine using the key. Voltage should be "same as battery," and not less than 10.5 volts, absolute min. 10V Higher the better.
Because I decided to take the pictures in the middle of doing something. Don't remember what I was doing but it was either taking it off or putting it on.
Double check the firing order too.
View attachment fireorder.gif
And please, re-route the fuel line to come around the front of the engine in between the alternator bracket and block and up and along the intake into the carb and replace that plastic fuel filter with a metal one.
Where that plastic one is now is subject to heat from the exhaust manifold and could be an issue when you get it running..
View attachment fireorder.gif
And please, re-route the fuel line to come around the front of the engine in between the alternator bracket and block and up and along the intake into the carb and replace that plastic fuel filter with a metal one.
Where that plastic one is now is subject to heat from the exhaust manifold and could be an issue when you get it running..
Kinda like so:
Gotchya- just a sanity check.
I've left a rotor off before. :violent1:
Yeah it was a lazy weekend for me I did not do anything except go out and turn the distributor 180 degrees and drop it back in. Only to find out I left the key in the run position. Ugh. So tonight I will try to turn it over if that does not work I am going to take off the dist cap and tale a pic. I do know that my firing order is correct according to the diagram. My boyfriend has a 69 Super B I want to look at his and see where his distributor sits and how his is wired even though he has a 318 would it be the same?
When you say the orange box needs to be grounded is there something I need to attach to it to ground it?
Norway-dart
Well-Known Member
No, just one of the bolts that holding it to the firewall.
But you do have spark, i think the grounding issue is a dead end.
I would started over as you did, rotate the engine until cyl 1 is at tdc, check that rotor in dist. Points toward cyl 1 spark plugwire. Try to crank, if nothing happens, turn distributor ccw(?) to advance timing. If you have turned 2 inches without action, turn it back 2 inches, exchange sparkplugwire 1 and 6 and try to crank. Try to advance ignition until cyl 1 and 6 fire... Then fix the rest of plugwires, start engine and adjust timing with strobe...
Good luck
But you do have spark, i think the grounding issue is a dead end.
I would started over as you did, rotate the engine until cyl 1 is at tdc, check that rotor in dist. Points toward cyl 1 spark plugwire. Try to crank, if nothing happens, turn distributor ccw(?) to advance timing. If you have turned 2 inches without action, turn it back 2 inches, exchange sparkplugwire 1 and 6 and try to crank. Try to advance ignition until cyl 1 and 6 fire... Then fix the rest of plugwires, start engine and adjust timing with strobe...
Good luck
72golddustermike
Well-Known Member
might want to check relucter gap in distributor
Buy a .008" (inches not metric) BRASS (nonmagnetic) feeler gauge, O'Reallys used to have them in a small set. You use this to check the reluctor to pickup coil gap, which adjusts just like points used to
Buy a .008" (inches not metric) BRASS (nonmagnetic) feeler gauge, O'Reallys used to have them in a small set. You use this to check the reluctor to pickup coil gap, which adjusts just like points used to
nothingbutdarts
Well-Known Member
Well now, a 69 Bee would have at least a 383 bigblock in it and the dist plug wires are set up backwards because it turns in the opposite direction (counterclockwise) of a small block (clockwise).
However, if it has been changed out to a 318 like you say, than it should be the same as yours!
-
