40 degrees initial!

Small Block Mopar Engine

  1. yellow rose

    yellow rose Overnight Sensation FABO Gold Member

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    Well there you go!!!! That’s an even better deal.
     
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    • JG1966

      JG1966 Well-Known Member

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      I'm in Pittsburgh and he's in "Centrural Pa." I like the guy already
       
    • 318willrun

      318willrun Utube channel 318willrun

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      If this fixes the problem, can we look back at post 8 and 11 ???? :poke::poke:
       
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      • AJ/FormS

        AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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        You can turn this to your advantage by saying ;
        If your engine will accept an increase in timing, then you might simultaneously be able to lean it out.

        That is partly how I got 32 mpgs(hiway) out of a 223/110 cam. The other part was bringing the rpm way down to; 85=2040/65=1560. Of course the 180 plus psi cylinder pressure probably had something to do with that as well.
         
      • Hysteric

        Hysteric Well-Known Member

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        The reason it needs a lot of timing is because the mixture isn't that good and requires more time to get the flame front moving. When the mixture is less than ideal it requires the energy to heat the mixture to get to a point where it will burn. Energy that is used to get the rest of the combustion going is wasted instead of pushing down on the piston.

        What was your total timing with 180 psi?
         
      • Hysteric

        Hysteric Well-Known Member

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        Watch this. When he uses the Alcohol it doesn't vaporize the fuel properly but only converts some of it to gas that burns and pushes the piston down. Look at the difference between that and the gas he uses.



        Look at when he runs the Spirytus which is Polish Vodka. The Chamber is saturated but some of the mixture gets vaporized so it still burns and pushes the piston down. That mixture would be very rich AFR wise but only a little bit of it actually gets burned to produce power. There's quantity and then there's quality of mixture, 2 very different things. What do you think happens in a low comp engine with a big cam? You may give it 12.8 to 1 AFR but it doesn't mean your engine uses all of it.

        Listen to sound and the differences between the gasses and the liquids
         
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        • Hysteric

          Hysteric Well-Known Member

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          Look at 5.33 and see how the vapour lights up but the liquid droplets keep on going unburnt.
           
        • halifaxhops

          halifaxhops It's going to get stupid around here! FABO Gold Member

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          EEEEWWWWWEEEE!
          Replied.
           
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          • AJ/FormS

            AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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            32/34 for power. (alloy heads)
            50 for cruising at 2800, plus the dial-back as might be allowed.
            45 at 2000, plus dial-back
            The dial back is usually set to +6/-9
            The Vcan brings 22* set ASAP
            Idle-timing is 14, plus/minus dialback.
            When the engine is cold, I dial in the +6 for a faster,cleaner, more stable, idle
            When I dial out the -9 at idle, I get down to ~5* without changing the "perfect" T-slot setting, so she will idle down to 550/500 with the 230* cam, and that allows down to 3.5/4 mph parading.
            When I dial up +3 to +5 for power;on the street, WOT power change is undetectable;
            but the Part Throttle down low becomes a lil jumpy at small openings, with my manual trans . I just reach over and dial some timing out,to reduce the EFFECTIVE cylinder pressure, and she settles right down.

            For those who want to know, my DB is an old Jacobs unit from the early 2000s. It has a built-in amp for the magnetic trigger, and also has a dial-back rev-limiter, which I use as a cruise control,lol. It seems to be good to well past 7500.

            @Hysteric
            I hear what you are saying, and do agree. But I'm just telling how I got 32mpg with a 223* cam in a 367. For this exercise I used a 600 model 1850, and just leaned it out and poured timing on it to keep it running,and geared it to 65=1650/85=2040.
            To do that, I collected a series of very thin wires from IIRC about .006 to .012.. Then I accessed the IFRs, which were at the top of the wells, and did what I had to, in terms of leaning it out. I used the dial back to determine the timing she liked, centered around the cruising speed, and built the curve accordingly.
            Since the secondaries were disabled, this could have been done with any 2bbl, and even easier with a meteringrod carb. This was a spur-of-moment exercise,done for a specific roadtrip; the engine was already making great mileage with a 750DP; I just wanted to see what could be done with the old 1850, that was gathering dust in the shed.

            Since then, I have obtained a Dual-Port and a small TQ, and one of these days, maybe ........... I'll get around to doing something, but I thing this present world wwill fade away first.
             
            Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
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            • gregcon

              gregcon Well-Known Member

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              That clear head video is interesting...I could do without the music in the background.

              On the alcohol test, I didn't hear him say what he did to the AF ratio....or maybe he was trying to over-richen the mixture on purpose...either way, at a glance it looks like he was using too much fuel for the amount of air.

              I wonder why he didn't use a spark plug...?

              I also like how you can see the spark firing on the exhaust stroke....like most cheap engines they fire twice as often as they need to in the interest of saving 12 cents....
               
            • Hysteric

              Hysteric Well-Known Member

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              A smaller carb helps the vapourization. Try the TQ you might be surprised by what it does.
               
            • AJ/FormS

              AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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              Already did.
              But that 223* cammed combo expired in 2005, and I upgraded to a Hughes He3038AL; 230/237/110cam.
              The thing is, with 180 psi,and running a minimum coolant temp of 207*F, Most of the time, the throttle is barely open enough to activate the Vcan; I actually had to move the sparkport to run 1700rpm on the hiway. I have, in the cab, a vacuum gauge hooked to the sparkport, so I always know what the Vcan is getting.
              So when I hit the hiway, I just advance the timing until the car stops picking up speed. Kindof like Gpaw would do on the old JohnDeere, to get some roadspeed.
               
              Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
            • halifaxhops

              halifaxhops It's going to get stupid around here! FABO Gold Member

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              We talked the other day think I got him on the right path, he has a MP Mallory style distrib and it was not set up properly. @JG1966 Where are you at now with the issue?
               
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              • yellow rose

                yellow rose Overnight Sensation FABO Gold Member

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                Glad you hooked him up.
                 
              • JG1966

                JG1966 Well-Known Member

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                Thanks Ray. I was nice talking with you. I appreciated your help. I used a silver spring and a blue spring that I had laying around -- just to see where it put my curve -- and adjusted my mechanical timing from 18* to 16*. I'm now at 20 initial, 16 mechanical. My advance starts now at about 1100 rpm and I'm all-in at 2400 rpm. I haven't had a chance to take a drive (rain). But my timing light shows a much more consistent curve than before, when it would jump from no mechanical to all in, all at once at about 2,000 rpm. I'm sure I had an issue with my springs. Next, I'm going to try to get vacuum advance dialed in (using manifold port). I've never been able to get it to work right, but with fixed springs, maybe it will work this time. Thanks again
                 
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                • RustyRatRod

                  RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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                  Rest assured, he's running more timing everywhere with 180 psi than anyone on the face of the planet now, in the past or ever.
                   
                • halifaxhops

                  halifaxhops It's going to get stupid around here! FABO Gold Member

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                  Hey guys where is the ported vac on a Holley? all he has is manifold (full) vac? I am a Eddy Guy myself.
                   
                  Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
                • RustyRatRod

                  RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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                  Passenger's side in the front metering block.
                   
                • halifaxhops

                  halifaxhops It's going to get stupid around here! FABO Gold Member

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                  That's what I though. John can you get a pic of that area?
                   
                • JG1966

                  JG1966 Well-Known Member

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                  Sure. Gimme a minute
                   
                • JG1966

                  JG1966 Well-Known Member

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                  Here is passenger side metering block
                  20200930_160514.jpg 20200930_160509.jpg
                   
                • RustyRatRod

                  RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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                  • yellow rose

                    yellow rose Overnight Sensation FABO Gold Member

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                    If there is only one port on the base plate under the primary fuel bowl, then you don’t have a port for timed vacuum.

                    If there are two ports down there, one is ported and one is manifold.
                     
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                    • JG1966

                      JG1966 Well-Known Member

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                      There is only one port on the carb, for manifold vacuum (plus another one under the secondary bowl for my pcv). There is no port for timed vacuum.
                       
                    • JG1966

                      JG1966 Well-Known Member

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                      Here is driver's side secondary
                      20200930_195951.jpg 20200930_195944.jpg
                       
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