440/500 Cranking issues

Big Block A body Tech

  1. Kendog 170

    Kendog 170 Let the boy go !

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    Ok, long story here. I have a 68 Dart with a 440 30 over, 440 source 500” stroker kit (Balanced) , Stealth heads , PRW bushed roller rockers, stock pushrods ( geometry looks good travel on valve tip good ) Hydraulic Comp Cam XE295HL-10 . TTI long tube 1 7/8”, B&M around 2800 stall 727, 323 Gear 8 ¾ Rear. Never got a piston to deck measurement.I estimate 10:8 Comp. I have 175PSI cranking compression.

    The machine shop was reputable but the Owner, not the person who built it closed shop.

    The Problem.

    Motor always a little slow cranking when cold starting. Real slow cranking when warmed up. I could only set timing to 8 degress max due to hard cranking.

    This motor really runs good but with my cam choice it’s noisy. Another story. It’s a driver but ran 11.7 ¼ mi. just driving it there and not opening hood.

    I’ve driven a few years but then I was having to jump it when warm and it got worse fast. I was hoping the hard starting and header heat took its toll on the starter. Well starter replacement didn’t help.

    Yes a trunk mount Batt. 1 ot positive and grounds, check all connections and feel this is not the issue.

    I pulled the plugs and when I crank motor with a rachet on crank I’m getting a tight spot and an almost rubber sounding squeak.Maybe bearing?

    I currently have no garage but have been using my Dad’s but my other brothers use it as well so I have to act on this soon. I am dreading lifting the body off the Motor,Trans ,Kframe. But will if it comes down to it to pull apart the motor.

    So here’s what I’m thinking. I already checked the Dizzy , I will confirm TDC on balancer. Check for timing chain slop, Then maybe remove rocker Assemblies and trying turning (plugs out) to eliminate Rockers and or spring issues.I know with the motor out I can remove one rod at a time to eliminate what rod bearing it could be if any .

    I am open to thoughts and suggestions and I’m grasping at straws at this point.

    I know I probably have too tight of a clearance somewhere Bearings or not honed enough. I don’t have the knowledge a lot of you guys have so any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.
     
  2. 67Dart273

    67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    "I pulled the plugs and when I crank motor with a rachet on crank I’m getting a tight spot and an almost rubber sounding squeak.Maybe bearing?"

    Just how tight is it, some idea of turning torque?

    Does it crank OK with ignition disabled? In other words is it simply kicking on the starter?

    Some thoughts

    Have you measured cranking voltage AT THE STARTER? Do whatever it takes to clip a lead to the main starter terminal right at the starter, and a lead to the block, and measure starter voltage under cold and warm condtions

    Measure voltage drop when cranking of both ground side and hot side. Get a long piece of wire to reach front to rear. "rig" it to one meter probe. Clip one meter lead to engine block, BEST TO stab other probe into top of battery NEG post. Crank or have someone crank engine and read the drop

    Same thing hot side. Clip one side of meter to starter main post, stab other probe into top of battery PLUS post. Crank engine, read the drop.

    In both cases the lower the readings the better. Zero volts would be perfect, but is unobtainable.

    Have you changed starters and what are you using for a starter?

    Get/ buy/ borrow a carbon pile tester and measure starter draw.

    You do this by clipping load tester to battery, cranking engine for 10 seconds and while cranking, read load tester voltage accurately. Then crank in load to load battery to same voltage reading and at that point read ammeter on tester. This is your starter draw.

    Also battery terminal voltage for stockers should be no less than 10.5 when cranking, a "built" engine you should have more battery and should have more voltage.

    Test the battery, Google and research load amps vs quality of battery On that note, batteries which sit a lot can get sulfated, and this reduces their effective capacity

    You said " 1 ot". Is this no1 cable or "ought" cable? Just making sure

    Detail the battery ground path from battery neg to engine block

    Detail the battery hot path from battery PLUS to starter
     
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    • Kendog 170

      Kendog 170 Let the boy go !

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      I'll have to get my torgue wrench on the crank.I'll have to do more testing as you suggest . Yes 1 ought not fine strand I got free from work. I just learned that my shut off switch should be hooked through the ground ? I have Positive wired thru it . My battery is old and sitting so it's now in question but at the start when engine was fresh I put a larger battery 850 CCA (New in it)
      So I guess I should be addressing those issues 1st. Maybe take some before and after readings. Not now this week in the 90's and I'm in the middle of fixing the rearend of my truck in the driveway. I definitly need to get my son down there as so far I'm doing it alone.
       
    • Kendog 170

      Kendog 170 Let the boy go !

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      This was what I used that I got somewhere when I did my wiring.

      Wiring Schematic_1_ - Copy.JPG
       
    • Kendog 170

      Kendog 170 Let the boy go !

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      I doesn't show the shutoff switch that I installe a short time later.
       
    • 67Dart273

      67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      Functionally it does not matter where the disconnect switch is located. If you show up at a track it must be in the positive cable and must kill the engine (alternator etc)
       
    • 67Dart273

      67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      I cannot read your diagram. You grounding the battery right in the trunk? You might take a look at the body attachment point. And how did you ground your engine to the battery?

      Many people insist you need a ground cable direct from battery to engine, but many others have used the body/ frame as well. You need at least one and better two big jumpers from engine block to body. NOT the K member which is bolted in.

      What is the "thing" up near the starter? Is that a feed through? I cannot read that.

      Bear in mind that with a factory starter solenoid (the one in the starter) the Ford solenoid, and a disconnect, you are now going through THREE hi current switches and that many more terminals. Take a jaundiced eye at all of them
       
    • Kendog 170

      Kendog 170 Let the boy go !

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      I welded a ground stud to rear frame rail about 12" from Battery. I welded another ground stud to front frame rail and ground wire to enging block. 1 ought cable
      I have firewall pass thru stud 1 ought from ford soliniod then a regular short battery cable 12" ? to starter.
       
    • AJ/FormS

      AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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      After you do the test you talked about with the plugs out and rocker gear unloaded, you may find your pistons or rings are just too tight. However; the squeaking you mentioned, I have heard before; twice, and both times it was a spun rod bearing. The noise was heard at idle. Once, as I was listening, The engine just locked up, and then I knew.
       
    • fishmens67

      fishmens67 Well-Known Member

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      Any bearing issue will show on the oil pressure gauge. ANY !
       
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      • Kendog 170

        Kendog 170 Let the boy go !

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        The oil pressure has always been good. Haven't seen any change there . I currently have too many things going on besides this so I am going to get them done and hope the weather is a little cooler then. Thanks for all the comments . I'll keep you all posted.
         
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